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ORIGINAL: velvetears
Also wanted to say i think you are really stretching it when you say that doms who don't care about a subs orgasm have to be very confident doms, i don't think this stems from confidence at all, i think they are simply just doing what they want to do and have found someone they can do it to. 
Exactly-and that's perfectly acceptable.  It's just no great mystery or doesn't make them super confident or on a higher plain than other doms who enjoy their subs/slaves orgasms.  

If you are truly service oriented you serve people what they want, true?  Now flip that around and imagine a woman who is very sexually oriented and needs orgasms like you need food - and her dom tells her no more for you... it would be just as hard. 
Again, exactly.  And if they want you to have orgasms, they should get that (or your best efforts at that) if truly serving them is your goal.....slave luci   

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Now flip that around and imagine a woman who is very sexually oriented and needs orgasms like you need food - and her dom tells her no more for you... it would be just as hard. 

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ORIGINAL: tricia

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Now flip that around and imagine a woman who is very sexually oriented and needs orgasms like you need food - and her dom tells her no more for you... it would be just as hard. 

Wouldn't this fall under 'orgasm denial' - which no one seems to have a big issue with.  I can't remember ever reading a thread on that topic where the Dom in question was accused or assumed to be uncaring, selfish and weak.  (but i could be wrong.)
 
Sure many doms use orgasm denial as one tool, but that doesn't mean that's the way he maintains his sexual relationship with his sub/slave.

Is it safe to assume a Dom who denies orgasms is 'good' and the man who simply doesn't care whether you have them or prefers them to be incidental to his own is bad? 
 
i don't use terms "good or bad".  i think it's important to for each relationship to live up to the needs of both who are in it.  If both are happy and content with whats happening then their dynamic is working for them. 

I guess i'm simply not understanding the reasoning.

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ORIGINAL: tricia

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Now flip that around and imagine a woman who is very sexually oriented and needs orgasms like you need food - and her dom tells her no more for you... it would be just as hard. 

Wouldn't this fall under 'orgasm denial' - which no one seems to have a big issue with.  I can't remember ever reading a thread on that topic where the Dom in question was accused or assumed to be uncaring, selfish and weak.  (but i could be wrong.)
Possibly....i think there's a big distinction between orgasm "denial" for a time and being with One who doesn't care if you ever have one again or not.  Also, the "denial" aspect is personally exciting for me because i do so enjoy having orgasms.  i am very sexual and to be brought to the edge and then denied that release is very stimulating.  If Master - knowing how sexual i am - simply ignored my need and didn't care if i ever orgasmed or not - that's a very different thing.  
 
Is it safe to assume a Dom who denies orgasms is 'good' and the man who simply doesn't care whether you have them or prefers them to be incidental to his own is bad?
No, i don't think it's a good idea to assume anything, especially who/what is "good" or "bad."  There are so many shades of grey between black and white....slave luci
 

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simply ignored my need and didn't care if i ever orgasmed or not - that's a very different thing.   

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

i have a question for you daddysprop, what if your master decided that he wanted you to have orgasms, for whatever reason, would you comply and find a way to have them or would you just tell him it wasn't possible. Would you be unhappy in your service if it included mandatory orgasms?  If you are truly service oriented you serve people what they want, true?  Now flip that around and imagine a woman who is very sexually oriented and needs orgasms like you need food - and her dom tells her no more for you... it would be just as hard. 

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ORIGINAL: velvetears


Why would you question other dominants motivations?  Maybe bringing their subs to orgasm IS there sexual fulfilment as well, maybe they get off on that just like you get off on knowing you are sexually fulfillling your Master.  It seems from the tone in your posts that this quality in doms somehow threaten you in some way. 

lol...no i don't find that particular quality in Dominants "threatening," it's just a simple curiousity. in my experiences i've found that the majority of Dominants do seem to care (a great deal) about submissive arousal and orgasm, and this just seemed odd to me considering the nature of Dominants, submissives, and a D/s dynamic. some Dominants here have been kind enough to answer that question for me from their personal perspectives, and i can understand the main reasons: tool of control, amusement, ego. however i suppose it's the no. of Dominants who have this particular interest versus the small number of those who do not, which continues to strike me as odd.


Also wanted to say i think you are really stretching it when you say that doms who don't care about a subs orgasm have to be very confident doms, i don't think this stems from confidence at all, i think they are simply just doing what they want to do and have found someone they can do it to.   

but you see, i think it does take unusual confidence to be completely comfortable (guilt-free) with "doing what they want to do".

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ORIGINAL: tricia
I agree.  Sadly, this brings the two of us back to square one - as i have said before - i don't need to have an orgasm as much as i need other 'things.'
Thanks for the reply.
Sure....i understand what you are saying.  i wouldn't say i "need" orgasms but i sure do enjoy them and Master loves hearing and seeing them happen[:D].  If we can all find the dom/master whose needs/desires mirror ours in this department, all of us can be satisfied and that is the ultimate goal, i think.........luci

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

i have a question for you daddysprop, what if your master decided that he wanted you to have orgasms, for whatever reason, would you comply and find a way to have them or would you just tell him it wasn't possible. Would you be unhappy in your service if it included mandatory orgasms?  If you are truly service oriented you serve people what they want, true?  Now flip that around and imagine a woman who is very sexually oriented and needs orgasms like you need food - and her dom tells her no more for you... it would be just as hard. 

well first the question you asked is flawed because i don't think there can be such a thing as "mandatory" orgasms, at least not for everyone.
There certainly can be and i know of many slaves who are given this order, myself included at one time when i was collared.
i can't control my ability to orgasm any more than my Master can. so an "order" to have orgasms would be akin to an order to fly to the moon. i could try with all my might, but it just ain't too likely. of course i would never deny or refuse my Master anything. but some things i'm just not capable of doing, and orgasms at will are one of them. but he knows that even better than i do. would i be unhappy if my service included mandatory orgasms? of course, because it would be something i wouldn't be able to do therefore i would feel like a constant failure and bad slave.

You don't know till you tried - what i hear is you don't even really want to try.  Wouldn't your devotion be a motivation if it was something your master really wanted from you??

i wouldn't liken that to a woman who "needed" orgasms being told she could never have one again. for one no one needs orgasms like food...tho i will acknowledge that some people may need them in order to be content or happy. it is not unheard of for a slave to be denied something necessary for their own personal happiness or contentment, so i wouldn't view that as a horrific situation. the other thing is that if a Master decided he didn't want his slave to orgasm ever again, that is something he could control, if he put the effort and attention into it. she could comply with this order because 1. she could cease any sort of masturbation/self-pleasure, and 2. her Master could prevent her from orgasming during sexual activity, if he so chose. however an orgasm cannot be forced in one who is not orgasmic. 

When people who have a high sex drive are denied release on a long term basis it can be very damaging to them psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually.  You mentioned that "if a Master decided he didn't want his slave to orgasm ever again, that is something he could control, if he put the effort and attention into it." why then should it be any different for a slave to put that same effort and attention to being able to please her master by giving him her orgasms if that is what he wanted?
 
i just don't agree with this statement you made "however an orgasm cannot be forced in one who is not orgasmic."  It might be hard but over time - and training, perhaps even with the help of a sex therapist, one can learn to orgasm.

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

 ...in my experiences i've found that the majority of Dominants do seem to care (a great deal) about submissive arousal and orgasm, and this just seemed odd to me considering the nature of Dominants, submissives, and a D/s dynamic....
 
This seems to be saying that a dom isn't dominant enough unless he shows he doesn't care about his slaves pleasure.  If he does care he not as dominant as a dom who doesn't care. Sounds like "my way is truer or better then your way" to me.

but you see, i think it does take unusual confidence to be completely comfortable (guilt-free) with "doing what they want to do".
Isn't this a round about way of saying the dom has something he should be guilty about?  i don't see the logic in this statement at all.  Maybe i am missing something?

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

 ...in my experiences i've found that the majority of Dominants do seem to care (a great deal) about submissive arousal and orgasm, and this just seemed odd to me considering the nature of Dominants, submissives, and a D/s dynamic....
 
This seems to be saying that a dom isn't dominant enough unless he shows he doesn't care about his slaves pleasure.  If he does care he not as dominant as a dom who doesn't care. Sounds like "my way is truer or better then your way" to me.

but you see, i think it does take unusual confidence to be completely comfortable (guilt-free) with "doing what they want to do".
Isn't this a round about way of saying the dom has something he should be guilty about?  i don't see the logic in this statement at all.  Maybe i am missing something?

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

...i tried to do so. i was never successful. so as i said, to have such an impossible demand made of me would naturally make me miserable and feel like a worthless slave to be honest. 

Isn't the worth of a slave determined by the master and not the slave?

edited to add, while the high sex drive slave forbidden to orgasm again might not experience personal happiness or contentment, she will (or should) still be fulfilled because she is able to please her Master by complying with his demands.

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

...i tried to do so. i was never successful. so as i said, to have such an impossible demand made of me would naturally make me miserable and feel like a worthless slave to be honest. 

Isn't the worth of a slave determined by the master and not the slave?

edited to add, while the high sex drive slave forbidden to orgasm again might not experience personal happiness or contentment, she will (or should) still be fulfilled because she is able to please her Master by complying with his demands.

And you can categorically say that a slave should be fulfilled, even if she is denied something she needs because she is complying with her master's demands?  This may be according to YOUR dynamic, i don't think you should speak for others because i think a lot will say if they were denied something they felt they needed they would not be fulfilled or happy and most likely leave that situation.

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ORIGINAL: minnetar

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

...i tried to do so. i was never successful. so as i said, to have such an impossible demand made of me would naturally make me miserable and feel like a worthless slave to be honest. 

Isn't the worth of a slave determined by the master and not the slave?

edited to add, while the high sex drive slave forbidden to orgasm again might not experience personal happiness or contentment, she will (or should) still be fulfilled because she is able to please her Master by complying with his demands.

And you can categorically say that a slave should be fulfilled, even if she is denied something she needs because she is complying with her master's demands?  This may be according to YOUR dynamic, i don't think you should speak for others because i think a lot will say if they were denied something they felt they needed they would not be fulfilled or happy and most likely leave that situation.

isn't a slaves purpose to fulfill her Master's needs therefore she basically has no needs of her own.  If she has them then isn't she basically a submissive?  you are stating a slaves needs like they are rights and doesn't a slave have none other than to please her Master?

minnetar

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ORIGINAL: minnetar

fine then you aren't a slave and why debate prop when she is?  You have entirely different mindsets.

minnetar