Oh Goody!!!

Oh Goody!!! (Full Version)

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LotusSong -> Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:14:33 PM)
Tomorrow there is going to be another illegal immigrant march. I just finished listening to the organizer of said march lamenting that they are marching for rights. They can't vote or receive benefits. WHEN are they going to get it through their heads.. it's because the moment you snuck into this country breaking the law!!! When you do that.. you GET no rights, just as if you broke into my home through an unlocked back door and demanded a room and food as your "right" just because you made it in the back door. THIS time...since they are all out in the open.. arrest them all and ship them back until they understand the system. I'm TOTALLY fed up!

minnetar -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:16:47 PM)
The number of illegal immigrants that have healthcare is unbelievable in indiana. They have better healthcare than alot of citizens. Isn't it true if they have a child born here then the child is a citizen? minnetar

deadbluebird -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:16:59 PM)
i totally agree.

farglebargle -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:17:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Tomorrow there is going to be another illegal immigrant march. I just finished listening to the organizer of said march lamenting that they are marching for rights. They can't vote or receive benefits. WHEN are they going to get it through their heads.. it's because the moment you snuck into this country breaking the law!!! When you do that.. you GET no rights, just as if you broke into my home through an unlocked back door and demanded a room and food as your "right" just because you made it in the back door. THIS time...since they are all out in the open.. arrest them all and ship them back until they understand the system. I'm TOTALLY fed up! If it's the right of Capital to have Free Markets, why isn't it the right of Labor?

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:28:56 PM)
Just the last thing to do before I head out the door. I got this in My email, and it is an unpublished "letter to the editor". The composer of the letter and family have decided to put this out via email since the newspaper refused publication. I will not publish to names of the writers, even though they display them proudly in the email itself, out of respect that they may not wish to have their names spalshed all over an alternative lifetyle webiste. Smile But the letter is very real and perhaps this can add to the discussion. Sorry that it does not translate well on a copy and paste regarding font size and consitency, but the text is all there. I haven't time to correct any formatting. Begin email... ORANGE COUNTY ( CALIFORNIA ) NEWSPAPER This is a very good letter to the editor. This woman made some good points. For some reason, people have difficulty structuring their arguments when arguing against supporting the currently proposed immigration revisions. This lady made the argument pretty simple. Newspapers simply won't publish letters to the editor which they either deem politically incorrect (read below) or which does not agree with the philosophy they're pushing on the public. This woman wrote a great letter to the editor that should have been published; but, with your help it will get published via cyberspace! New Immigrants From: "D** L*" My wife, R***, wrote a wonderful letter to the editor of the OC Register which, of course, was not printed. So, I decided to "print" it myself by sending it out on the Internet. Pass it along if you feel so inclined. D L** (signed) Written in response to a series of letters to the editor in the Orange County Register: Dear Editor: So many letter writers have based their arguments on how this land is made up of immigrants. Ernie Lujan for one, suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because the people now in question aren't being treated the same as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports of entry. Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people like Mr. Lujan why today's American is not willing to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new American households and some even changed their names to blend in with their new home. They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture. Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity. Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from ,Germany , France and Japan, Italy . None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan . They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France , no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl. And here we are in 2006 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country. I'm sorry, that's not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900's deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags. And for that suggestion about taking down the Statue of Liberty , it happens to mean a lot to the citizens who are voting on the immigration bill. I wouldn't start talking about dismantling the United States just yet. (signed) R*** L** P. S. Pass this on to everyone you know!!! KEEP THIS LETTER MOVING!! I hope this letter gets read by millions of people all across the nation!! Ever onward!!**

Sinergy -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:34:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: minnetar The number of illegal immigrants that have healthcare is unbelievable in indiana. They have better healthcare than alot of citizens. Isn't it true if they have a child born here then the child is a citizen? minnetar Technically, they are considered a US citizen and deserving of all that is associated with that until the age of 18. At that point they have to make a choice of what country to be a citizen of. On the other hand, their parents are entitled to a green card so they can support their citizen child. Sinergy

selfbnd411 -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:35:39 PM)
The average pay for field workers is $9.06/hr, according to Migrant News. It's hard, therefore, to make the argument that Americans won't do these jobs because the pay is too low. $9.06/hr is well above the minimum wage, and let's compare it to the average pay at Wal-Mart: Sales Associate: $8.23/hr Cashier: $7.92/hr Wal-Mart doesn't have any trouble finding Americans to work for $8/hr, so why aren't Americans flocking to the farms to bend over in the hot sun all day for $9/hr? The answer is fairly obvious: It's not about pay. Americans just don't want to do menial labor. Unrestricted immigration is definitely bad, but we need to recognize that our "high" quality of life is built on legions of workers who will always struggle to make ends meet. http://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/more.php?id=1213_0_5_0

kinkyATL -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:36:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Tomorrow there is going to be another illegal immigrant march. I just finished listening to the organizer of said march lamenting that they are marching for rights. They can't vote or receive benefits. WHEN are they going to get it through their heads.. it's because the moment you snuck into this country breaking the law!!! When you do that.. you GET no rights, just as if you broke into my home through an unlocked back door and demanded a room and food as your "right" just because you made it in the back door. THIS time...since they are all out in the open.. arrest them all and ship them back until they understand the system. I'm TOTALLY fed up! Mmmm... Is that how the system works? I seem to remember some sort of declaration that mentioned rights were inherent in human beings and not something that came with legal residency. Also, my recollection is the same document mentioned that those same rights could not be forfeited. Given the Declaration of Independence doesn't hold the force of law... but I definitely think most people would concede that it embodies the spirit of the system. Where those rights are codified in law is in the Constitution and its amendments. There is similarly no limit to citizens or permanent residence mentioned in the Constitution. Now even if we agree that convicted criminals can be disenfranchised of some of their rights, as a class those your refer to are not convicted criminals. Nor can we judge them or punish them as if they were. As to what they are or are not entitled to, it cannot be based on an alleged criminal act. See that's how the system works... perhaps they are more familiar with it than you. I'd agree that illegal immigration is indicative of some serious problems that need to be addressed, however I'm a little confused by why it generates so much anger in you.

farglebargle -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:40:19 PM)
"their Creator"... "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." If they can be taken away LAWFULLY, then they are PRIVILEGES, not rights.

minnetar -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:41:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: minnetar The number of illegal immigrants that have healthcare is unbelievable in indiana. They have better healthcare than alot of citizens. Isn't it true if they have a child born here then the child is a citizen? minnetar Technically, they are considered a US citizen and deserving of all that is associated with that until the age of 18. At that point they have to make a choice of what country to be a citizen of. On the other hand, their parents are entitled to a green card so they can support their citizen child. Sinergy Singery thanks for the answer. At least where i deal with medical claims, so many of the illegals have babies and that is considered an emergency and covered by indiana medicaid. Wonder if that gives them an ulterior motive. minnetar

selfbnd411 -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:42:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold Just the last thing to do before I head out the door. I got this in My email, I hate to break this to you, but they refused to publish the letter because it's factually incorrect. The author clearly knows nothing about the labor reforms of the Progressive Era. I could write a whole essay on this, but I won't. It's a terrible shame that so many Americans are utterly ignorant of the richness of our own history. But hey, I'm probably talking my own book as a graduate student in American history!

kinkyATL -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:42:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold Just the last thing to do before I head out the door. I got this in My email, and it is an unpublished "letter to the editor". The composer of the letter and family have decided to put this out via email since the newspaper refused publication. I will not publish to names of the writers, even though they display them proudly in the email itself, out of respect that they may not wish to have their names spalshed all over an alternative lifetyle webiste. Smile But the letter is very real and perhaps this can add to the discussion. Sorry that it does not translate well on a copy and paste regarding font size and consitency, but the text is all there. I haven't time to correct any formatting. Begin email... ORANGE COUNTY ( CALIFORNIA ) NEWSPAPER This is a very good letter to the editor. This woman made some good points. For some reason, people have difficulty structuring their arguments when arguing against supporting the currently proposed immigration revisions. This lady made the argument pretty simple. Newspapers simply won't publish letters to the editor which they either deem politically incorrect (read below) or which does not agree with the philosophy they're pushing on the public. This woman wrote a great letter to the editor that should have been published; but, with your help it will get published via cyberspace! New Immigrants From: "D** L*" My wife, R***, wrote a wonderful letter to the editor of the OC Register which, of course, was not printed. So, I decided to "print" it myself by sending it out on the Internet. Pass it along if you feel so inclined. D L** (signed) Written in response to a series of letters to the editor in the Orange County Register: Dear Editor: So many letter writers have based their arguments on how this land is made up of immigrants. Ernie Lujan for one, suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because the people now in question aren't being treated the same as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports of entry. [snipped for brevity] (signed) R*** L** P. S. Pass this on to everyone you know!!! KEEP THIS LETTER MOVING!! I hope this letter gets read by millions of people all across the nation!! Ever onward!!** First result on Google searching for the supposed quote of Ernie Lujan is a reference to the Snopes article debunking this letter: http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/newimmigrants.asp So the poster mentions that this letter is "very real." How did you determine that exactly?

farglebargle -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:43:04 PM)
"Singery thanks for the answer. At least where i deal with medical claims, so many of the illegals have babies and that is considered an emergency and covered by indiana medicaid. Wonder if that gives them an ulterior motive." Nah, people just like having babies. They smell good.

minnetar -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:45:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle "Singery thanks for the answer. At least where i deal with medical claims, so many of the illegals have babies and that is considered an emergency and covered by indiana medicaid. Wonder if that gives them an ulterior motive." Nah, people just like having babies. They smell good. lmao or they just enjoy making love - by the way you are so wrong [;)] minnetar

Sinergy -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:49:20 PM)
One big gambit here in California is to get the pregnant woman to cross the border illegally and have her child in the United States. The problem I have with much of this is they come to a country. reasonably nice with a reasonably well designed and managed infrastructure, built on the sweat and labor and values of a formerly British / Continental European point of view. So they come here and try to turn it in to the shithole they left behind. My attitude is go home and fix your own stupid country rather than come here and screw up my country. Vancouver, B.C., is another prime example, although their immigrant wanting to screw things up are from China instead of Mexico. The alternative I suggest is to assimilate and learn the culture already here and help (pay taxes, obey laws, etc) to support that infrastructure. Then their children and their children's children will have a nice country as well. Sinergy

selfbnd411 -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:52:20 PM)
Good bit of detective work there. The link you provided has an excellent rebuttal of the claims presented in the letter. I would disagree with his statement that social welfare laws were nonexistant during the period, though. As a point of fact, the Progressive movement coincided with the great wave of immigrants from Eastern Europe that occurred from 1890-1920: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_shirtwaist -- The Triangle Shirtwaist fire of 1911, which led to workplace safety laws http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Tenement_House_Act -- The 1901 law that prohibited the construction of unsafe housing for immigrants and the poor http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA03/holmgren/ppie/images/amer.jpg -- A 1920 advertisement for an "Americanization" school to teach immigrants, who many feared were not assimilating, how to be Americans.

selfbnd411 -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:58:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy The problem I have with much of this is they come to a country. reasonably nice with a reasonably well designed and managed infrastructure, built on the sweat and labor and values of a formerly British / Continental European point of view. Actually much of the labor this country was built on was African, Irish, and Slavic. One of my favorite things to do is point out to my students who claim to come from good Irish or Russian stock that they were not considered "white" for decades after their arrival in the United States. There was a definite racial hierachy that ran from British (top), Northern European, Southern European, Irish, Eastern European, and African/Asian. You might look into a book called How the Irish Became White, by Noel Ignatiev.

minnetar -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 6:59:13 PM)
Sinergy, i believe the key word was assimilate. i have to say that is my issue with it. They want the services our country can offer but they don't want to learn the language. i speak to a number of people daily who ask if anyone speaks spanish because they don't speak english but have sought healthcare. minnetar

farglebargle -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 7:00:27 PM)
If you want more of that perspective than I believe anyone can comfortably stomach in a single sitting, Zinn's "People's History of the United States" is replete with examples.

popeye1250 -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (4/30/2007 7:20:47 PM)
Lotus, I agree, our government isn't doing the job we're paying them to do. And the reason they go to a hospital to have their kids is because they get a Birth Certificate. Hospitals can't turn people away but they should not be issuing birth certificates to illegal aliens! We need to clear up that 14th Amendment which was written in 1868 to give "full citizenship" to freed slaves, not to give citizenship to the children of illegal aliens who aren't supposed to be in our country. If a Foreign Diplomat posted to Washington by his government and his foreign born wife have a child here that child DOES NOT get U.S. Citizenship. Why should illegal aliens get it? That needs to be clarified and it needs to be "grandfathered" back to 1986 when we had that "One Time" amnesty. As for agricultural workers just how many do we need? Surely not 20 million. About 200-300,000 should do it. And who says they need to come from Mexico, Central America or S. America? Immigration to any country is not a "right." Sneaking into a foreign country is breaking the law. The very fact that these illegal aliens would have the nerve to demonstrate in public tells us how dysfunctional our government is. And they have the gall to call sneaking into someone else's country "civil rights" like they're trying to compare themselves to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's? I'll be calling my Senators and Congressman's office for sure! Lotus, who is your Congressman?

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