RE: Oh Goody!!! (Full Version)

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Satyr6406 -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/1/2007 1:30:04 PM)

Hello, all!
 
         My lady got this in an e-mail and she sent it to me, knowing I would find it interesting, even though she didn't see this post (She's about as political as I am diplomatic).
 
         Lets try this experiment.

        Put a bird feeder in your yard and fill it with bird seed. It doesn't take long before the birds learn that a free meal is in the offing. They come by the hundreds.

        Now, empty the feeder. What happens? No more birds.

        Take away the free medical care. Take away the free schooling. Take away the free welfare. Take away the jobs. What happens? No more illegals. WOW
. Duh!!

 
         I am going to repeat some things that have already been said, I'm sure but, I'd like to be heard.
 
         Because of divorce, I have an "extended family" which gave me four sets of grandparents. I was very close with three of these families. If you grant me some license, these three families qualify me as a second-generation American. (The fourth "side" of my family makes me a native American, going back a few thousand years LOL!)
 
         I had German, Irish and Italian grandparents. They were all born in their respective countries. They came to this country for varying reasons.
 
         My grandfather (Borrmann) and his family saw the tides of war coming, right after the first world war and decided to get out of dodge. His brother fought for the German Army, during WWI and the American Army during WWII (The US Army made him a spy and sent him to go and re-inlist in the German Army and he had medals from both sides of WWII!!!)
 
         They came to this country, for whatever reason to make a better life. That was the bottom line. They learned English. They worked hard. They paid their taxes. They saved their money. They moved to better neighborhoods, after they climbed out of their respective "ghettos" in which they originally assimilated. They became AMERICANS.
 
         In the home, the traditions and values of the "old country" remained but, they were honored "co-laterally" with the new, American culture that the family had chosen. Let me say that, again: They chose to be here! My parents were taught to be Americans but, we were all taught to value from whence we had come.
 
         The influx of immigrants, today, for the most part, are hard-working, good living, up-standing Americans (even the illegals don't wish to break any laws and want to maintain a "low profile" so that they don't get deported). But, as a few have stated; by swimming across a river, in the dead of night or by stowing away in a truck or however they got here, they broke the law. They demonstrated that they do not honor this country and what it stands for and what it can do for them.
 
         These same law breakers (Criminals, for those of you, in Poughkeepsie) are taking to the streets, today to demand, in a loud voice: "I have invaded your country and now, I expect you to take care of me and mine because I am entitled!" Entitled, my Irish ass! They are entitled to a speedy trial and deportation!
 
         The "Me Generation" attitude of the 70s has perverted the social climate in this country to make all the dregs of society somehow feel like they are, magically, a part of a society to which they have already demonstrated scorn and distain.
 
         Our politicians don't help. President Carter rushed voting rights to Cubam refugees who had been in this country less than a year in the hopes that they would vote for someone who showed such kindness and "forward-thinking".
 
         I live in a neighborhood (New Brunswick, New Jersey) which is largely made up of people from central and South America (Mostly central). These people, for the most part, are honest (caveat to follow), hard-working, law-abiding people who entered this country illegally. Case closed! They're great people except that their criminals and their actions have symbolically urinated all over the spirit of the laws in which they now wish to wrap themselves. I don't care what your political bent. I don't care how intelligent you may or may not be. This doesn't pass "the giggle test", if you use a little bit of common sense.
 
        I come from immigrant stock. I honor my past and I love MY country. These criminals must be rounded up and deported so that we can honor our tradition of rewarding good behavior and punishing the bad.
 
        Please, don't quote part of what I've said, here and try to argue the point with me. On this issue, you will NOT change my mind. These people are a cancer on our society just by the fact that the undercurrent of their very being here spits in the face of what's right and wrong.
 
        One last note: Unless I have been mis-informed, ever since the horrible attacks of almost six years ago, laws are in the works to nullify the practice of pregnant women from other countries sneaking over here just so that their offspring will be American citizens and enjoy all those rights. I am not sure if any have been enacted but, I am almost positive that there have been SOME changes to the codes. (For example, when I was in law enforcement, if an illegal immigrant was on a boat, off the Florida cost, they were detained and deported back to Cuba. If they were able to stand up, in the water, they were considered to have "made it" and were welcomed. I believe that has been changed.)
 
 
 
 
 
                                               Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
                                                                    Michael




domiguy -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/1/2007 1:46:55 PM)

Possibly I can shed some light on the out sourcing of labor....My sub works for a major tech company...She works out of her home...Everyday she is on the phone through a conference call with India. She is an engineer and so are her counterparts in India...It is not uncommon for her to work all hours of the day/night to accomodate the needs of her co-workers around the globe who are in other time zones....This is such a ridiculous argument as you bitch about someone coming in to this country to make a pittance ...Should they do it legally, you bet....But the fact is no one wants to do what they are willing to do at the wages they are being paid.

Now lets use the example of my sub....These are engineering jobs. College educated.....They work solely in providing information...bits and bytes....No product, no manufacturing, no hard labor!!! But every job that is outsourced saves the corporation about three  fourths or more in salary when compared to what they would pay someone living in the states.....Who is bitching about this???

I have never been impacted personally by the effects of illegal immigration.....It's just the latest thing to point out to an aging U.S. white population and say "look here, this is the cause of all of your problems." 

Yes we should be more dilligent about who crosses our borders....But many laborers have no inclination to live here...They come for  a season and then go back home.  The people getting wages from U.S. corporations abroad...Don't spend a nickel of their earnings in the U.S.....So I wonder where actually does the greater evil lie?




domiguy -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/1/2007 1:52:31 PM)

I recently watched the "Gangs of New York".....I have to do a little more research but I wonder how accurate that portrayal is on immigration during that era?




spankmepink11 -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/1/2007 2:46:31 PM)

On my fathers side, I am 4th generation american, on my mothers, I am first generation american, my grandparent's parents, and my mother all considered it a privelage and a source of pride to become american citizens and worked  hard to do so.  I agree that if one enters the country illegally they should be afforded the rights of criminals, because that is what they are.

On a side note, I make $25.00-$35.00 per hour for "manual/menial labor"....and do so quite happily




asubmissiveheart -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/1/2007 3:45:32 PM)

You have one of those $20-$30 an hour jobs, Americans refuse to do?
Shame on you!




LotusSong -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/1/2007 7:13:03 PM)

Domiguy,
 
I see you live in Chicago.  Try living on the southern border states and see how you feel.  You  are talking through your hat.




Sinergy -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/1/2007 7:16:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Now lets use the example of my sub....These are engineering jobs. College educated.....They work solely in providing information...bits and bytes....No product, no manufacturing, no hard labor!!! But every job that is outsourced saves the corporation about three  fourths or more in salary when compared to what they would pay someone living in the states.....Who is bitching about this???



Ironically, complaints come from other companies who see people not rushing to buy the computers, cars, clothes, whatever.

Apparently, when companies offshore all their jobs, the people in the country they are doing business in have no money to purchase their products.

How much do they pay these people again?

Sinergy




LadyIce -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 4:15:19 AM)

I watched some of the protesters on t.v.  It appears that many of
the migrants that are here illegally, are now demanding to become
citizens.  Can you come to a country illegally and demand to be
made a citizen these days?




hammernhoney -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 4:20:55 AM)

Hello ICE,I say its a damm good time to check for green cards at this protest and ship  them all back tied, cuffed to the deepest recess of Mexico,at least it will take some time to work their way back,maybe we will have our borders secured by the time the make it back..bounty




farglebargle -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 4:27:47 AM)

The borders will never be "Secure". Stop buying into the scenario the Bosses tell you.

The freaking Berlin Wall had PATHS WORN DOWN where the smugglers operated.

Stop wasting my tax dollars on your economic insecurity. How about stopping Artificial Legal Entities from taking money in the first place, and we'll have more to go around?

In the fight between HUMAN BEINGS and Corporations, *I* know what side *I* am on.

The reason you don't have affordable health-care isn't Undocumented Humans ( VERE ARE YOUR PAPERS! SCHNELL! SCHNELL! ).

The reason you don't have affordable health-care is that it would make running an insurance company less profitable.









hammernhoney -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 4:29:06 AM)

SNIP...
        Take away the free medical care. Take away the free schooling. Take away the free welfare. Take away the jobs. What happens? No more illegals. WOW. Duh!! 

  A PERFECT SOLUTION...H N H
      




Lexxia -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 4:44:34 AM)

I couldn't agree with you more! What would happen to BlueCross/BlueShield, Aetna and those other companies. Not to mention the 100s of 1000s of folks out of work.

Good point about the Berlin Wall too.




farglebargle -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 4:59:51 AM)

"What would happen to BlueCross/BlueShield, Aetna and those other companies."

The real issue is that someone will come along, point to Southern Pacific vs. Santa Clara, and definitively state that Artificial Legal Entities are exactly the same as a Natural Person, and has the same Constitutional Rights as a Citizen.

Of course, I don't see that in the text of the http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=118&invol=394
any such decision.

ZEROTH LEVEL: Our Creator (G-d, Gaia, Your Mom, whatever works for you )
--- Creations of Our Creator
FIRST LEVEL: The People
--- Creations of The People
2nd LEVEL The Great State of New York
--- Creations of The Great State of New York
The Republic.
Corporations.

See?

The Feds and The ALEs *are* our bitches.

Why are some many people so quick to kowtow to their subordinate Creations?




LadyIce -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 4:12:15 PM)

I agree, most of them gain more by being here illegally when they need assistance,
tha those born here in the USA.




Griswold -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 6:06:56 PM)

Everyone has an opinion....don't foist restrictions on yourself solely because the game has just started and you have one (an opinion).

I am absolutely going to vote for Hillary....unless Edwards says some really cool shit, and then...no question about it...Edwards is my guy...and if Thompson joins the race...Edwards and Hillary can kiss my ever loving ass...because I am ABSOLUTELY going to vote for Thompson....unless of course Gulliani seems Presidential, and then...without wavering...I'm voting for Gulliani...

No question about it.




Llyren -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 6:28:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

One of my favorite things to do is point out to my students who claim to come from good Irish or Russian stock that they were not considered "white" for decades after their arrival in the United States. 


I've always found that amusing, given that there really isn't a whiter group than the Irish.  I'm part Irish, part WASP, so I have pasty down pat.  (Don't ask, it's a long story about  a shocking mesalliance)





feylin -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 7:08:58 PM)

A couple of towns over from me is Hazelton, Pennsylvania. Their mayor's solution is to hit the businesses that employ people that enter the country illegally and the landlords that house them.  Brilliant solution from a man who saw a problem in his own town.   I think a town meeting was scheduled on CNN tonight. (I don't watch television news anymore...it was that Bush second term thing, I swore I wouldn't watch the news until he was out of office because if everyone else voted him in, they deserve exactly what they get. Yeah, passive aggressive, maybe meds would help.  At any rate, I haven't watched since the election and I am a much happier person, I must say.)

Maybe it is not a solution for me or anyone else, but it doesn't matter.  Its their town and I  like to see a mayor actually representing the voters who elected him.  That's bonus.  Citizens standing up to be counted. <gets a little misty>

I am wondering, though, if he just promoted another baby boom.  One guy father a child with a local and then became all aghast when he was scheduled for deportation.  Today the news was that he finally found a judge who decided that deporting him might be unconstitutional.  I guess the mother of his child didn't want to move to Mexico to be with her true love?  I love you forever, but based on location.  Her hard limit.  I don't blame her!  I would never move back to Ohio full time.  I mean, really, love has its limits!




UtopianRanger -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/2/2007 10:38:39 PM)

quote:



If CAPITAL gets to have Free Markets, so does Labor.




I musta missed this thread do to its benign title.  The fallacy in your argument here as it relates to illegal immigration, is that after it's all penciled out.....the American people would never stand behind this type of free market economics.

The free market system you’ve conjured-up is being thrust upon them. So you're able to make this type of argument based on the fact that you assume a majority supports it - And that's not true by a long shot.





- R
















farglebargle -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/3/2007 5:41:18 AM)

"based on the fact that you assume a majority supports it "

What the majority supports may not necessarily be correct, or moral.




subrob1967 -> RE: Oh Goody!!! (5/3/2007 6:18:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

The number of illegal immigrants that have healthcare is unbelievable in indiana.  They have better healthcare than alot of citizens. 


Bullshit, the state will pay for any life saving treatment, for any citizen who can't afford their own treatment. It's called Hoosier Care for the Indigent or HCI

The illegals can only get treatment in hospital emergency rooms, with no real follow up care.

quote:

Isn't it true if they have a child born here then the child is a citizen?


Unfortunately, this is true, anyone born on American soil, including embassies, is considered a citizen of the U.S.







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