RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master

Message

SimplyMichael -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/3/2007 6:36:02 PM)
If by valid point you mean that my advice didn't apply to all submissives? Sure. My advice also didn't apply to elephants either. However, for the woman in question, I would bet a decent dinner that my advice was spot on.

slaveish -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/3/2007 6:40:50 PM)
Well now we have another quandry. Perhaps your advice does apply to elephants and we could debate what constitutes a "decent dinner".

minnetar -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/3/2007 7:30:01 PM)
Firm complimented you on your intelligence but questioned your sarcasm. You replied with more sarcasm rather than a direct response to his question or even a thanks for the compliment. Sarcasm is amusing to some but not all. minnetar

SimplyMichael -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/3/2007 9:10:43 PM)
Good thing I am not here to amuse you isn't it?

BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/4/2007 8:55:30 AM)
?

daddysliloneds -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/4/2007 9:09:55 AM)
after reading nothing more than your first post, i would have to ask: why is it being childish, bratty, selfish or stubborn to not want or need 'punishment' dynamics as part as a good d/s relationship? and i'd like to add: usually when i get all bent out of shape over something and i get mouthy in my relationships, it's because some of my certain basic needs aren't being met... something to think about.

phoenixinchains -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/4/2007 9:27:38 AM)
if i understand correctly (and i'm dangerously low on caffiene) the issue was that T/they went to into the relationship having expressed T/thier expections for the O/other, and the lady in referance is behaving outside of His expection. sorry i can't recall the name for the OP, but He is looking for methods to overcome this challenge in T/their relationship. not having needs met can cause panic to manifest in bizarre ways, yet one may act in the discribed fashion as a form of manipulation. infants cry to manipulate becuase they know no other way to communicate their needs or wants. they need many things, and they want things too. their method to obtain both needs and wants are the same until they learn better, imho- phoenix

Nogimmicks -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/4/2007 9:48:33 PM)
I am always fascinated by the range of perceptions regarding the concept of a submissive or dominant. This thread is a great examply of the diversity within the culture. I am reminded of the modern interpretation of the "Christian Submissive Wife" as described in Ephesians and Second Peter of the Christian Scriptures. Most Christians now interpret these passages as meaning that the wife should be submissive to the husband provided he is being submissive to the church, a conclusion brought about by virtue of common practice more than the text. Thusly, we now find "Christian Femdom" groups who explain that the femdom wife is really being submissive by virtue of the fact that the husband wants her to be dominant. She is therefore submitting to his need to be dominated. Okay, I can accept that concept. (Please bear in mind that my emphasis here is not on trying to bring religous theology into the discussion, but simply to illustrate the range of definitions and perceptions that pertain to dominant vs submissive behavior). Similarly, there are many submissives who will be submissive to their "dominant" only when the moon is in the third orbit of Venus and as long as she/he is happy and as long as the "dominant" is getting his/her permission and as long as she/he gets to define the relationship and as long as the "dominant" isn't doing anything that annoys the "submissive". While such D/s relationships are every bit as legitimate and real as any other, the advice either I or Michael gave would be of no value to them whatsoever. If, in fact, the OP came from or desired one of these relationships, I would have stayed out of it. I have no reference point on how these relationships work. It just isn't my particular preference. However, my reading of the OP's post indicated that he and his submissive were interested in the kind of D/s relationship where the dominant dominates and the submissive submits. The things that the OP pointed out that indicated this to me were (1), the part where he told her to stand in the corner and (2) where she apologized the next morning for not doing it. This second point indicates that she felt that, in fact, she was wrong for not adhering to his instructions. People should never apologize for behavior that they feel is not wrong. Thusly, I came to the conclusion that both he and she were looking for a relationship that is of the same type as that I adhere to. Now, I certainly can understand that people get in bad moods and that there are times when a person isn't going to want to be told to go stand in the corner. They just aren't in the mood. However, even in my non-D/s previous relationships, if I had asked my wife to do something and her response were "Fuck that", we would have had a problem. For that matter if anyone (friend, employee, whatever) I know were to respond to me with "fuck that", we would have a problem. Let me scratch that, we wouldn't be friends anymore until the problem were resolved and then it had jolly well better never happen again. I do not have much tolerence for people in my life saying "Fuck that" in responce to a request made by me, I am kind of funny that way. I don't care if she is lying on her deathbed or if her favorite goldfish just died, it just isn't something I am going to be told. I have value and I am not going to be treated that way. Michael's advice was spot-on in this instance. Not everyone would like it, and it certainly wouldn't work for everyone, unless they are actually seeking the kind of relationship that he (and I) espouse. If they want a relationship where the submissive makes the rules and the whole dynamic is about catering to the submissive's whims, then I agree, it was very bad advice. On the other hand, if the goal is to curb unacceptable behavior that might well destroy a potentially wonderful relationship, then again, it was right on the money. Now, regarding my remarks about "dog and horse" training, please bear in mind that the onus was not on treating the submissive like a dog or horse, but about the process of instilling dominance in another being. It is something that can be learned.

Elorin -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/4/2007 10:55:56 PM)
~using fast reply~ I skimmed most of the responses, and it sounds like you got some great answers. The one thing I did not see is a suggestion that perhaps at first don't try to dive into 24/7. Instead, start with small periods of time. "This evening we will be practicing D/s." Then "all day tomorrow." Then "all weekend." And gradually increase the time periods. See what works. Getting a chance to practice, and then put it away for a while will possibly give both of you chances to see this from another perspective, see what works and what doesn't, and make changes to your dynamic as you gradually build it up to being a full time dynamic. ~E

losttreasure -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 7:25:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nogimmicks Similarly, there are many submissives who will be submissive to their "dominant" only when the moon is in the third orbit of Venus and as long as she/he is happy and as long as the "dominant" is getting his/her permission and as long as she/he gets to define the relationship and as long as the "dominant" isn't doing anything that annoys the "submissive". While such D/s relationships are every bit as legitimate and real as any other, the advice either I or Michael gave would be of no value to them whatsoever. If, in fact, the OP came from or desired one of these relationships, I would have stayed out of it. I have no reference point on how these relationships work. It just isn't my particular preference. However, my reading of the OP's post indicated that he and his submissive were interested in the kind of D/s relationship where the dominant dominates and the submissive submits. The things that the OP pointed out that indicated this to me were (1), the part where he told her to stand in the corner and (2) where she apologized the next morning for not doing it. This second point indicates that she felt that, in fact, she was wrong for not adhering to his instructions. People should never apologize for behavior that they feel is not wrong. Thusly, I came to the conclusion that both he and she were looking for a relationship that is of the same type as that I adhere to. Let me see if I understand you correctly... D/s relationships of the same type that you adhere to are ones where the dominant dominates and the submissive submits. The implication being that types of relationships where your and SimplyMichael's particular advice would not be beneficial are then ones where dominants do not dominate and submissives do not submit. You go on to say, "Michael's advice was spot-on in this instance. Not everyone would like it, and it certainly wouldn't work for everyone, unless they are actually seeking the kind of relationship that he (and I) espouse. If they want a relationship where the submissive makes the rules and the whole dynamic is about catering to the submissive's whims, then I agree, it was very bad advice." So... even though you deign to call them D/s relationships and say that they are every bit as legitimate and real as any other, you're just talking out the side of your mouth. How nice... a dominant who's both narrow-minded and duplicitous. As for your logical conclusion about what type of relationship the OP and his fiancee desire based on her apology, I'm afraid I'm not so circumscribed as to think that apologies can only mean concession. I noted that the OP stated that his submissive apologized for "her behavior"... I didn't notice him stating what particular behavior she apologized for. She could have been apologizing for her initial "mouthiness", she could have been apologizing for not obeying his instruction to stand in the corner, or she could have been simply apologizing for her general contribution to an atmosphere of discontent. There's nothing wrong with injecting your personal experience into a situation in order to provide alternate perspectives. What I object to is making definitive proclamations about a situation with which you have limited personal knowledge.

LadyIce -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 8:16:04 AM)
Childish, bratty, selfish subs==hard limit for this Dominant.

Level -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 10:12:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThunderRoad This is a bit of a rant and a bit of a cry for help. Please indulge me a little. Situation: Engaged to a sub who lives with me (wedding a year or so out). We're both professionals with full-time jobs and lives etc etc etc. Pretty straight forward. The problem is that, dispite several conversations about what exactly she is interested in from a D/s standpoint, she seems to have no interest in it when it comes time. She's disobedient, mouthy, selfish with seeming little concern for what I want. When I point this out, it's about 50/50 she'll realize what she's doing, apologize and fall into line, or just get huffy and either stomp off or give me the silent treatment. Welcome to married life, eh? She states repeatedly that she wants a 24/7 D/s relationship. Not really a TPE, but something that is all the times we're together. She's strong and I admire that (it helps her professional life), but I really am not sure if she know what she wants and as a result I'm not sure I know what she wants. I guess my quandry is this. When a stubborn bratty (in the definition of being a 4 year old) bitchy sub just plain refuses to accept a punishment or play along, what's a dom supposed to do? I'll admit I'm a little inexperienced and learning a lot of this as I go, but I really seem to be missing something. Last night, for example, we were lying in bed and she got mouthy and I tell her to go stand in the corner and her response is "Oh fuck that and she just rolled over." At that point it was like "y'know, I just don't want an argument or to put up with this crap - I'm tired and I have an early morning". This morning, she apologized for her behavior (unprompted) but I gotta get her to pay attention to her behavior at the time. smashes head on wall Thanks for letting me vent. She doesn't sound submissive to me; or rather, she seems to like the idea of it, when it suits her. If you love her and want to be with her, then do so, but I'd have already shit-canned any talk of her submitting.

smilingjaguar -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 11:13:55 AM)
I have to say I don't really understand what you are trying to add to this thread other than an argument. Saying the advice wouldn't work for a sub who's gotten comfortable in her submission really doesn't make sense because none of the advice was intended for a sub who has grasped her place. The advice the OP got was as tailored to his situation as you can get from an online forum, and I did not see anyone espousing the advice as the one true way. All I can say that perhaps the next time something you read upsets you this much try to look inside and figure out why before posting something just for the sake of argument.

losttreasure -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 1:33:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar I have to say I don't really understand what you are trying to add to this thread other than an argument. Saying the advice wouldn't work for a sub who's gotten comfortable in her submission really doesn't make sense because none of the advice was intended for a sub who has grasped her place. The advice the OP got was as tailored to his situation as you can get from an online forum, and I did not see anyone espousing the advice as the one true way. All I can say that perhaps the next time something you read upsets you this much try to look inside and figure out why before posting something just for the sake of argument. I do thank you for your advice, but what I'm trying to add is an alternative viewpoint to those that have read what little information was provided by the OP and declared that the woman in question is obviously hoping for this and wanting that... or clearly not a submissive. It's one thing to recognize where behavior patterns are similar to ones you've experienced and offer suggestions based on what successfully worked for you. It's quite another to make assessments from behind a computer screen and spout off about what the OP needs to do if he wants a real D/s relationship. I simply find it ironic to see dominants without long-term, committed submissives themselves, quick to pronounce judgment on other people's submissives and provide conclusive advice on how those submissives need to be handled. The OP has received a lot of good and useful suggestions... including those provided by SimplyMichael and nogimmicks if taken as simply possibilities. Personally, I think the best advice that the OP has been given is by LaTigresse, MasterFireMaam and those others who suggested that he sit down with his fiancee and have a serious conversation about expectations... not just what she is interested in, but develop a mutual goal for the relationship and agree upon a course of action including what will happen if those expectations are not met.

smilingjaguar -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 2:56:23 PM)
I guess we start from different places as far as what we assume when we read posts. I accept everything here as subjective opinions until I verify them myself. Some things, like advice on a given situation, can never be more than opinion. Some of that opinion comes from experience and is to be respected, but there's only so much anyone can know of any situation through a forum, and that's the spirit with which I read and respond to every post. I don't take it as the only possibility unless the language of the posts makes it rather obvious. I guess to put it plainly I expect the OP and others here to understand that the advice given by anyone is just a possible answer to be evaluated thoroughly before putting it in use. Maybe in my limited time here I've managed to overestimate the intelligence of the population in general, but I sincerely hope not.

losttreasure -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 4:03:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar I guess we start from different places as far as what we assume when we read posts. I accept everything here as subjective opinions until I verify them myself. Some things, like advice on a given situation, can never be more than opinion. Some of that opinion comes from experience and is to be respected, but there's only so much anyone can know of any situation through a forum, and that's the spirit with which I read and respond to every post. I don't take it as the only possibility unless the language of the posts makes it rather obvious. I guess to put it plainly I expect the OP and others here to understand that the advice given by anyone is just a possible answer to be evaluated thoroughly before putting it in use. Maybe in my limited time here I've managed to overestimate the intelligence of the population in general, but I sincerely hope not. I would say that yes, we do start from a very different place. I try not to assume anything, but I do believe that people should take responsibility for what they communicate... She is acting out HOPING you will force her to submit. She doesn't know how to submit, you need to teach her. She is used to getting what she wants and is skilled at getting it. She is trying to "get/take" your dominance for her use and doesn't realize that that is the wrong tack. She wants to submit but doesn't know how. You are not first and foremost her lover or her friend or her confidant. First and foremost, you are the master. If she is disrespectful, like rolling over and saying "screw that", she is really asking for you to prove yourself. I read those as a fairly definitive assessments. They don't even remotely sound like suggestions with room for other possibilities. We're talking armchair psychology here. These statements may in fact turn out to be correct with regard to the OP's situation, but when it comes to fucking around with other peoples lives, I expect a bit more care from those who purport themselves to be almighty dominants doling out advice.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 4:20:42 PM)
Well, Perhaps some of us have better armchairs than others?

minnetar -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 4:34:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Well, Perhaps some of us have better armchairs than others? Care to elaborate as what that specifically means? minnetar

losttreasure -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 4:44:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Well, Perhaps some of us have better armchairs than others? lol... perhaps you do. [:D]

robertolapiedra -> RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs (5/5/2007 4:53:44 PM)
Ok ThunderRoad...let's say you two are driving on a long trip and you start arguing about directions, rules (too fast, too slow) you tell her that you're the one who is driving, she says she has the map seen the signs etc. Then you are getting really hot under the collar and it affects your driving justifying even more your 'navigator' telling you off and disrespecting you. You want advice? What to tell her? What should be the proper correcting technique? .....? None of the above, you stop the fucking car. Period. You don't stop the car in order to train your sub, you stop the car because you are smart enough to have limits. Crashing the car is not a dom's limit. My limit (which is an ultrahard limit) is don't mind fuck the driver. It is not a safe sane 'consensual' thing to do in longterm whatever you like D/s. I do not care what kind of theorised, customised, 'fantaSIZED' D/s your sub think's she want's, either you do it or you don't. Now who do you think is responsable in your couple for this? Who pulls the plug on the bitchy bullshit? Now if she is being bratty (4year old?) for more attention or provoking topping you ? that's another thing. For now your sub think's she can mind fuck you and next day turn off the heat by apologising. I don't see the respect . A good dom always checks the respect department first before deciding what to do, what to start and what to stop. You don't have to take this man, no one has to take this, not even vanillas. RL.

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625