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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:11:39 PM   
MadRabbit


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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:12:08 PM   
velvetears


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Status: offline 		If the overwhelmig majority of the times it is about violence and control then i can state that rape is about violence and control.  Because there may be a minority of cases that are negligable imo that it's sexually motivated doesn't make a case for rape being about sex and not about violence and control. 

"In disagreeing with this, you constrained your argument to being an absolute." (CL's words)

i disagree - you assumed.  i am sure you are familiar with the term statistically insignificant


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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:17:07 PM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Hmmm....

Well....you kind of did say that....

Because an absolute is when something is absolutely one thing and absolutely not another thing.

Hence black and white.

Your statement was "Rape is about violence and control, not sex."

This is drastically different then saying....hmm...."Rape is mostly about violence and control and less about sex."

Because....when you say "Rape IS about violence and control. NOT sex."

Your saying rape is about one thing and not about the other...

which...is... um....saying....

Forget it.


Then everything everyone says is an absolute in your way of thinking about absolutes. My way of stating an absolute is using absolute terms such as "always"  and "never"

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:17:40 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Because there may be a minority of cases that are negligable imo that it's sexually motivated doesn't make a case for rape being about sex and not about violence and control. 



Not getting sucked into this whirlpool of stupidity.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/4/2007 6:23:19 PM >

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:22:55 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
Well naked have you done research in this field?  When you and CL were still in diapers i was researching and doing a mini thesis on these very issues.  As for the personal questions about my own experiences or lack thereof with rape, all i have to say is, lets not get personal.  i prefer to keep my business private - it serves no purpose to talk about it, whether i was or wasn't raped has no bearing on my thoughts and opinions here. 


You have obviously walked away from my post without grasping the point I was making.  It wasn't about you.  I don't want to get personal, and the answer was rhetorical.  I do not want to bring up my personal experiences, and I surely don't expect you to.  The post was about the fact that you have not experienced everything there is to experience with regards to rape, and you should not be so quick to pass judgement.  Unfortunately, you're making a "my way or the highway" case, with no room for anyone else to ever be right.  Despite convincing debate, you have not been swayed to admit there is even a possibility that sex can be a sole motivator for rape.  That's all we're arguing, is the possibility.

Also, age has nothing to do with this.  Only condescension is contained in the phrase, "You and CL were still in diapers when...".  I am willing to debate intelligently with you.  If you are unable to do so without pushing the lines of insult, I will not continue this debate any further.

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:23:23 PM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I wont consider Date Rape cases to be a minoritiy...

And those cases are mostly sexually motivated...

Please cite references where it says this... or is this your opinion?



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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:25:57 PM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
Well naked have you done research in this field?  When you and CL were still in diapers i was researching and doing a mini thesis on these very issues.  As for the personal questions about my own experiences or lack thereof with rape, all i have to say is, lets not get personal.  i prefer to keep my business private - it serves no purpose to talk about it, whether i was or wasn't raped has no bearing on my thoughts and opinions here. 


You have obviously walked away from my post without grasping the point I was making.  It wasn't about you.  I don't want to get personal, and the answer was rhetorical.  I do not want to bring up my personal experiences, and I surely don't expect you to.  The post was about the fact that you have not experienced everything there is to experience with regards to rape, and you should not be so quick to pass judgement.  Unfortunately, you're making a "my way or the highway" case, with no room for anyone else to ever be right.  Despite convincing debate, you have not been swayed to admit there is even a possibility that sex can be a sole motivator for rape.  That's all we're arguing, is the possibility.

Also, age has nothing to do with this.  Only condescension is contained in the phrase, "You and CL were still in diapers when...".  I am willing to debate intelligently with you.  If you are unable to do so without pushing the lines of insult, I will not continue this debate any further.


and i suppose calling someone ignorant isn't insulting?? 

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:27:50 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


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Status: offline 		I defy you to find a place where I called you or anyone else ignorant.

Edited to add:  Calling someone ignorant is much different that calling what someone says ignorant.  I would expect you to know the difference.

You have once again, missed the point entirely.  I am trying to have a civil discussion, and you are obviously incapable of it.

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 5/4/2007 6:30:40 PM >

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:43:50 PM   
velvetears


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Status: offline 		Post 93 of this thread:
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddyDeSade
How could educated young ladies of maybe 20-21 in university be so foolish? .


Because they still ARE 20-21 year olds.



That was an ignorant thing to say.

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:48:10 PM   
minnetar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Post 93 of this thread:
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddyDeSade
How could educated young ladies of maybe 20-21 in university be so foolish? .


Because they still ARE 20-21 year olds.



That was an ignorant thing to say.

_____________________________

"I like you in that like I like you to scream, but if you open your mouth then I can't be responsible for quite what goes in or to care what comes out. So just pull on your hair. Just pull on your pout.
~The Cure "Fascination Street"


the quotation says the statement was ignorant not the person who posted it.

minnetar

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:49:09 PM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Post 93 of this thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong



quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddyDeSade
How could educated young ladies of maybe 20-21 in university be so foolish? .


Because they still ARE 20-21 year olds.




That was an ignorant thing to say.

_____________________________

"I like you in that like I like you to scream, but if you open your mouth then I can't be responsible for quite what goes in or to care what comes out. So just pull on your hair. Just pull on your pout.
~The Cure "Fascination Street"


the quotation says the statement was ignorant not the person who posted it.

minnetar



IMO - it's an insult.  Splitting hairs in how it was delivered.

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:50:12 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


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Status: offline 		Did you completely ignore what I just said?  Calling someone ignorant is completely different than saying that something someone said is ignorant.  And the post I made is a very valid point.  It's not insulting if it's truth.  And I could honestly care less about your opinion of it.

Obviously this has devolved into a shit-slinging contest between us, and you've been doing all the slinging.  With that said, I have better things to do with my evening.  Good night.

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 5/4/2007 6:53:22 PM >

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"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 6:58:04 PM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

Did you completely ignore what I just said?  Calling someone ignorant is completely different than saying that something someone said is ignorant.  And the post I made is a very valid point.  It's not insulting if it's truth.  And I could honestly care less about your opinion of it.

Obviously this has devolved into a shit-slinging contest between us, and you've been doing all the slinging.  With that said, I have better things to do with my evening.  Good night.


Oh i see..... you and others in this thread are the only ones alowed to as you so eloquently put it "sling shit" in my direction but if i call anyone on it i am slinging shit back? Sorry sweetie if my having a mouth and using it bothers you - nighty night

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 10:06:33 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		You know, I should really let this just die.. but, well, I didn't make my alias "CuriousLord" for lack of curiousity..

Three twenty-something's just all disregarded you as too immature to even debate with on a forum.. you've been rude, condescending, and debunked, while flamming and name calling..
..why?  Why did you carry on?

And, this is something I've just been wondering all along..
..why did you need, so badly, to believe rape was always a result of a man wanting dominance over a woman?  Was it because I called you on it back on the first page, and you just got a little prideful and took it too far, or is there some larger interest you have here, some sort of implication of rape due to sexual urges you find distasteful?

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 10:12:36 PM   
minnetar


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Status: offline 		CL some things are totally futile.


minnetar

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 10:31:03 PM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

You know, I should really let this just die.. but, well, I didn't make my alias "CuriousLord" for lack of curiousity..

Three twenty-something's just all disregarded you as too immature to even debate with on a forum.. you've been rude, condescending, and debunked, while flamming and name calling..
..why?  Why did you carry on?

And, this is something I've just been wondering all along..
..why did you need, so badly, to believe rape was always a result of a man wanting dominance over a woman?  Was it because I called you on it back on the first page, and you just got a little prideful and took it too far, or is there some larger interest you have here, some sort of implication of rape due to sexual urges you find distasteful?


i suggest you go back and re read my friend.  You used absolutes not me.  And as to name calling, flaming, and being rude and condescending - well you as well as a couple of others can be accused of the same thing. 

Takes two to tango - or did you assume i was debating myself

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 10:38:47 PM   
minnetar


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Status: offline 		velvet you seem to argue with a number of people and can never understand another's opinion. You might not agree with it.  i find it funny you derided me for being so obtuse but aren't you being the same way in this thread?  i probably was but think about how you are acting.  lmao with your comments to me and reactions here do you realize the dichotomy?  Think about your comments in all threads and be consistent in those thoughts.

minnetar

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/4/2007 11:18:46 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Takes two to tango - or did you assume i was debating myself


That's another completely cliche expression I hate.

It's entirely possible for someone to be out of line, disrespectful, and insulting, while someone else is simply being a decent person.

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/5/2007 12:13:14 AM   
mistoferin


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Status: offline 		Fast reply~

Wow, I can't believe where this thread has gone.

Couple of points I would like to touch on:

Sex can certainly be the initial motivating factor for rape. I believe that in the vast majority of cases that the attack starts out as being sexually motivated, other factors come into play during the course of the attack. In the majority of cases...but not all.

As to consent when intoxicated....

In my work as a Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault counselor, I have personally testified at three trials that involved a victim who was extremely intoxicated. In two of those cases the perpetrator wore a condom and there was no semen present. All three of those cases ended in conviction based upon the law that an intoxicated person can not consent. It does not matter if she consented before becoming intoxicated....you can not legally have sex with a person who can not SUSTAIN that consent.

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RE: Is it rape if she likes it? - 5/5/2007 6:16:01 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
My niece, thanks to that Godsend of a therapist, has gotten that message. I don’t doubt that she will always carry a sadness around with her but nowadays, on the verge of turning twenty-one, she has found peace, and laughter again. The drugs, alcohol, and cutting have stopped. She has found love with a wonderful young man (the whole family approves of him) and with a wonderful baby boy born last July.


I am glad to hear that your niece has found a way to move forward. The experiences that she had following her assault are very common after such an event. Rape survivors are 13 times more likely to commit suicide. Problems with depression, drugs and alcohol, PTSD, agorophobia and self destructive behavior are seen frequently in survivors. I am glad that she was able to find competent help.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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