RE: Masterhood (Full Version)

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:28:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Watch it, LA.  I'm trying to be accepting of your emotions, not open myself up to your condescention.

What emotions?  I'm trying to give you some tips on how to better adapt yourself into an environment you aren't used to. 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "watch it" though?  Watch what?  What will happen if I don't watch it?  Words like THAT sound like you're suggesting you have some sort of authority over me and are giving me some sort of warning.  And that really would be inappropriate.



CuriousLord -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:29:22 PM)

Hey, I appreciate the input.  It's good to have others in such a dynamic able to help explain it to those outside of it.



WhiplashSmile -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:30:41 PM)

quote:



quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

No matter how hard you'd like to mentally dehumanize a human being they are still a human being.  If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck it a duck.  Foot stools are simple objects, using a slave as a foot stool is just using a human being as a foot stool, it does not make them literally become a foot stool and not a human being.


How would you define "human being"?  How would you define "foot stool"?

A human being acting in the stead of a foot stool may also be a foot stool.  She maintains her "human" identity, assuming both her good health and that you define human as something along the lines of a specific animal without greater contradictory implication.

Definition in the literal noun definition sense verse verb sense.  Sure a human being can serve as a literal footstool, however human being themselves were not crafted out at the factory as footstools.  In terms of define human as something along the lines of a specific animal, you betcha we all are... and there are indeed greater implications.   If there were not then I suppose nobody would have any Objectfication fetishes at all.   It would loose its appeal to use another person as a foot stool and such.  There a difference between using a human for a foot stool and the cheapy bought at Walmart made in China.  No matter how abstract you can go, at the end of a day... if it Looks like a duck and sounds like a duck it is a duck.



daniL -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:36:16 PM)

I am a little unclear about something here, CuriousLord, and so I beg elaboration: in your posts, it seems to imply that if she EVER goes against you, your slave is to be released. I'm not so much inquiring about your personal relationship as to whether I am right in thinking that this is part of the dynamic which you have set up in the theory being argued.



CuriousLord -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:36:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

What emotions?  I'm trying to give you some tips on how to better adapt yourself into an environment you aren't used to. 


Your emotions which were offended in being called "a girl".

This is the condescending part of your tone- you're stating I'm unused to this environment and implying that the stated was somehow less than obvious.

I called you a "smart girl" as is customary in my culture, as would be calling someone "hun".  Of course, I'm aware I shouldn't refer to someone in a manner that they find unbecoming of decency if I'm hoping to maintain decency.  I was unaware you would take offense to it- many here calls themselves "girl".  It was a careless assumption.

Now, trying to tell me how I should think and act, just because I used a common word in a careless way?  That is condescending, LA.  If this is something you do not realize, then I'd suggest you take your own advice.

Edit:  Annex.  (The below was editted into the previously quoted messaged.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "watch it" though?  Watch what?  What will happen if I don't watch it?  Words like THAT sound like you're suggesting you have some sort of authority over me and are giving me some sort of warning.  And that really would be inappropriate.


"Watch it", as in, "You're being offensive".  It's idiomatic.

It's ironic you cite how taking authority over another would be inappropriate when it was this behavior you had that I was responding to.



domiguy -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:40:20 PM)

Post # 183 responding to somed dude who's slave probably has the appearance of a cross between Angelina Jolie....Britney Spears and some cartoon chick from the latest video game....Keep on humoring this guy....You are interrupting his wanking  time.   How does this lifestyle parallel your experience playing Dungeons and Dragons?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:40:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Your emotions which were offended in being called "a girl".

Oh, sorry to have given that impression, I wasn't offended at all.  It was slightly irksome, but I found your double standard to be more interesting, specially since you called me girl while simultaneously claiming to be trying to take pains NOT to sound condescending.
quote:


This is the condescending part of your tone- you're stating I'm unused to this environment and implying that the stated was somehow less than obvious.

YOU were the one who said you aren't used to this environment- it was your entire reasoning behind why you felt it was ok to call me girl but not for someone to call you boy.

quote:

Now, trying to tell me how I should think and act, just because I used a common word in a careless way?  That is condescending, LA.  If this is something you do not realize, then I'd suggest you take your own advice.

I didn't try to tell you anything.

I advised that IF you don't want to spend half your discussion time apologizing over slips like that, and IF you want to spend your time in forums where we don't treat people differently based on gender or orientation- then you SHOULD watch yourself more.

Your reaction here is telling me that you take open good advice and get defensive and assign all sorts of bad intentions to the giver.



WhiplashSmile -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:46:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I can assure you, this is a welcome break from, "OMG!  U SAID IM NOT ACTUALLY A uCase{Master,Dom,sub,slave} BECAUSE U SAID UR WAY IS THE ONLY WAY!!!!!!1111oneoneone".
Heh.

I appreciate the constructive approach.

Edit:  Typo'd a quote tag!  That wasn't pretty.

Oh Hell, I forgot to shoot first and ask questions later... Damn it...   I'm too prone to wanting to enter into some form of rational Q&A session for a debate. 

I believe your responses coming back in regards to my posts are adding a greater detail or depth of clarity of your constructs. I suspect in part providing a means for you to test and gain additonal clarity in these constructs as well.  Hence part of your reasoning in starting this thread. 



CuriousLord -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 8:53:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Your emotions which were offended in being called "a girl".

Oh, sorry to have given that impression, I wasn't offended at all.  It was slightly irksome, but I found your double standard to be more interesting, specially since you called me girl while simultaneously claiming to be trying to take pains NOT to sound condescending.


To find something "slightly irksome" is to find it offensive, just in lesser degree.  The sentiment was accurate.

Of course.  I wasn't afraid of "girl" offending you.  I was afraid of "smart" offending you.  Some people can find it offensive to have their intelligence assessed by another, as it can seem judgemental.
I've been trying my utmost to be kind even to blantantly rude posters, so I was trying to be sensitive to one I didn't find troublesome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:


This is the condescending part of your tone- you're stating I'm unused to this environment and implying that the stated was somehow less than obvious.

YOU were the one who said you aren't used to this environment- it was your entire reasoning behind why you felt it was ok to call me girl but not for someone to call you boy.


You've missed the point on this one.  Not the environment, the individual.  The internet has a lot of people on it, as does this board.  We're from all over.  Not everyone here would have been offended by the reference.  As some wouldn't, I made the careless assumption you wouldn't.  It was a thoughtless mistake in the choice of a single word- one for which I apologized.

Of course being thoughtless is something to avoid.  You don't have to state it.  It happens, now and then.  You've made a post based around a thoughtless word- one you say was "slightly irksome"- after it was already apologized for.  I find this to be rubbing in a mistake.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:

Now, trying to tell me how I should think and act, just because I used a common word in a careless way?  That is condescending, LA.  If this is something you do not realize, then I'd suggest you take your own advice.

I didn't try to tell you anything.

I advised that IF you don't want to spend half your discussion time apologizing over slips like that, and IF you want to spend your time in forums where we don't treat people differently based on gender or orientation- then you SHOULD watch yourself more.


Which is obvious.  As I stated, it was a careless mistake.  You don't have to make a big deal out of in it trying to "give (me) advice" because of it.  This just serves to point out that I had, infact, made a mistake on one word- something I find to be of condescending intention.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Your reaction here is telling me that you take open good advice and get defensive and assign all sorts of bad intentions to the giver.


Unneeded advice over something obvious is conscending.  The very nature of the advice being unneeded begs the question as to why it was delivered.

To this end, I sense posturing from you.  Again, if this is incorrect, I would advise you look back at your own advise in dealing with others.



WhiplashSmile -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:07:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daniL
I am a little unclear about something here, CuriousLord, and so I beg elaboration: in your posts, it seems to imply that if she EVER goes against you, your slave is to be released. I'm not so much inquiring about your personal relationship as to whether I am right in thinking that this is part of the dynamic which you have set up in the theory being argued.


I myself am a little curious on this one as well.  

I get the impression it's based on the nature and manner a slave went against him.   Some situations would warrent immediate release and zero acceptence for any responsibility for a slaves actions.  This would make it clear to others that the slave was not acting in accordence to the Master.   In short any slave that goes against a Master intentionally in this manner is subject to the punishment of being released.   A Master releasing a slave in itself is the final punishment and corrective action. 

If a Master orders a slave to burns down the neighbors house, and the slave refuses... The slave is released.  Really simple solution for both parties.   If you are a slave and your master orders you to do something that you don't want to do, do you really want them as a Master anyways?   Case in point where being released is of mutal benefit.  

If a Slave steals from other Masters without being commanded by a Master to do so, and this offense happens repeatedly and it can not be corrected, what alternative does a Master have but to release the slave? 

This is why it's wise for Masters to know what a slaves limits are before accepting their submission.  This is why it's a good thing for a slave to explore to what ends or limits a master has in mind as well.  

Now if stealing is an activity that the Master and Slave alike enjoy, well all I have to say is there's a match made in heaven and lord help anybody they both know...  At some point in time the slave may get busted the Master may attempt to cover tracks, post bail or whatever else..  Yes, I'm talking about a criminal Minded M/s relationship going on.  Don't laugh this shit does happens in real life.

If a Master is into breaking the law and a slave is not, then at some point in time it's expected the slave will be released.  No brainer here..  All goes back to how well too people click together for form the M/s relationship.   Regardless of morals or ethics of society or other people.  The M/s relationship itself is the primary base of ethics and morals itself.



domiguy -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:20:09 PM)

quote:

CuriousLord
That's the key difference I'm citing in the TPE view of Masterhood.  I do not believe a slave gives a Master control over her- I believe she becomes his and control over her is simply a given.  It's not hers to give.



Right.  Some slave is going to meet you and be so enamored with your crap that they are instantly going to hand over  all that they are to you?. I'm not buying it..  I am an exceptional judge of character and in your posts as well as your demeanor I see little that would attract anyone of worth.  I think you are full of crap as well as yourself, and as I have stated before anyone who acts in your manner, with your posturing, arrogance and know-it-all behavior, must have much deeper isues of self worth that have not been dealt with....What did daddy do to you?



CuriousLord -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:30:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daniL

I am a little unclear about something here, CuriousLord, and so I beg elaboration: in your posts, it seems to imply that if she EVER goes against you, your slave is to be released. I'm not so much inquiring about your personal relationship as to whether I am right in thinking that this is part of the dynamic which you have set up in the theory being argued.


Hey, I was wondering when someone would bring this up!

Yes, this is part of the dynamic.  I'm afraid a lot of it seems to fall apart if this part isn't in place- such as, a Master might find himself responsible for his slave doing something completely against his orders. 

Then again, I'm sure there are other ways of dealing with this.  One may be limits, as WhiplashSmile brought up.  This is something I will probably find myself thinking about in the future, as to how to deal with minor violations, incorporating methods for dealing with them them outside of release into the dynamic.

Currently, my take on this is to release a slave for an  intentional violation which brought on by disobidience.  Within a short period of release, I see a Master and former slave as being able to talk things out and for her to, effectively, be recollared later on, resuming the dynamic.

Still, as a Master, I value my slave's loyality and obidience greatly.  In a hypothetical situation, depending on her reason for disobidience, I may or may not take her back- the trust may be destroyed in a willful and groundless or selfish reason for disobidience.
A large part of the dynamic is that the slave lives solely for her Master.  If she falls into disobidience once, this would seem to be to almost certainly be indicative of prioprities outside of her obidience.  This would call into question the validity of the dynamic with regards to the specific relationship.



WhiplashSmile -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:37:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Post # 183 responding to somed dude who's slave probably has the appearance of a cross between Angelina Jolie....Britney Spears and some cartoon chick from the latest video game....Keep on humoring this guy....You are interrupting his wanking  time.   How does this lifestyle parallel your experience playing Dungeons and Dragons?


Ummmm.. I've seem to have misplaced my Dungeon Masters Guide!  What was the one golden rule about the DM being able to make up or change the rules as they see fit.  At least this was one rule that every DM had high lighted in the DM guides way back in the old school days of AD&D.   D&D players are vicious creatures when it comes to knowing the contents of every single chapter in every damn book there is and confronting the DM with it.  Now who's DMing this game?  Is it time to pack up the dice and say I don't wanna play anymore...   LOL...   Every DM has thier own style, method and reasoning applied to the game.    So what if a character is taking a running jumping over a 10' pit carrying 200lbs of gear and 1,200 in gold coin after just finishing a vicious battle with 20 orcs and they are down to 8 HP from thier normal 120 HP...  there's a slight chance they might make the 2d20 roll of the dice and make it over the pit anyways... OH wait, first before doing this, the character first attemts to dispell magic and dispell illusion spell to see if the pit is really real or not.  Perhaps it's an illusion that it's an 10' pit and in reality the pit is 15' wide, and it's a trap that was set by the Evil Illusionist Balasphere...  Oh wait.. somebody just mindlessly fell into the pit while attempting to jump to the other side..  Time to roll for damage!  Yikes so much for that 8 HP left..  I'm sorry, your characte that looks a lot like a cross between Angelina Jolie....Britney Spears and the cartoon chick from the latest video game is now dead...  Oh wait, this was just game nobody has to get pissed off that their favorite character was killed off by the Evil DM.    OH crap what if they had made it to the other side and lived... so many other players would have been recieting the odds like the holy bible to the DM.   Oh wait, the DM proclaims it was devine intervention of the Gods that the player made it to the other side..  Questioning looks are passed around the room from all players.. LOL... Things that just defy common sense are possible in anybody elses world.   It's all up to what the Dungeon Master say goes or not.

Crap, this is just one big fantasy game...  Fuck all, Crap who was supposed to be home by midnight...  somebody is going to get an ear full of trouble.  LOL...



CuriousLord -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:40:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Right.  Some slave is going to meet you and be so enamored with your crap that they are instantly going to hand over  all that they are to you?. I'm not buying it.. 


Pft, you think this is out there?  I'm still trying to get over the fact submissive people exist.  I thought I just knew a bunch of weirdos.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I am an exceptional judge of character and in your posts as well as your demeanor I see little that would attract anyone of worth.  I think you are full of crap as well as yourself, and as I have stated before anyone who acts in your manner, with your posturing, arrogance and know-it-all behavior, must have much deeper isues of self worth that have not been dealt with...


I'm glad to see you're so modest, especially for one so readily judgemental of another for perceived arrogance.

To address my "arrogance" and "know-it-all behavior", I'm a smart guy.  I'm keenly aware of this, as, I believe, most people who encounter me.  I'm able to demonstrate my intelligence in just about anything I do, and it serves me well.  If it is arrogant to not live in denial of this fact, then, yes, I am quite arrogant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

What did daddy do to you?


Put me through school and taught me common decency.  I'm regretful your own father wasn't such an effectual inspiration.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:46:06 PM)

This thread reminds me of a chatroom with the smell of imitation testosterone wafting through the air and prerecorded chest thumping booming out from cheep stereos.

My favorite thing to do in this situation is to walk up to the offender in question, unzip my pants and relieve myself on his leg.

Am I alone in this desire?



CuriousLord -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:49:34 PM)

The sad part about this is that your post just reminded me I haven't checked the D&D-based webcomic Order of the Stick yet today, and it's probably updated.

I read the comic, but I've never played the game.. they keep mentioning "hit dice".  I get the whole 3d6 sort of thing means rolling three six-sided dies and adding them up, what what're hit dice for?



CuriousLord -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

This thread reminds me of a chatroom with the smell of imitation testosterone wafting through the air and prerecorded chest thumping booming out from cheep stereos.

My favorite thing to do in this situation is to walk up to the offender in question, unzip my pants and relieve myself on his leg.


So this thread gives you the urge to piss yourself?  Please, take it to the corner of the chatroom.



daniL -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:55:05 PM)

The question I would have about this 'only responsibility is to their Master' theory at the moment is whether or not the slave as family-- children, siblings, parents, etc. I think this would be a difficult, if not impossible dynamic under those circumstances...



WhiplashSmile -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 9:57:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

The sad part about this is that your post just reminded me I haven't checked the D&D-based webcomic Order of the Stick yet today, and it's probably updated.

I read the comic, but I've never played the game.. they keep mentioning "hit dice".  I get the whole 3d6 sort of thing means rolling three six-sided dies and adding them up, what what're hit dice for?


Oh Hell there is dice rolls for anything and everything in the game.   The dice used is based on the type of weapon, spell or damage type.   20, 10, 8, 6, 4 sided dice, not to mention +/- adjustments to the roll..   It's a damn maze of charts and rules to make a fantasy game appear to be more realistic.   At times players want to add or incorperate a lot of realisms into the fantasy world, even more so when it's to their own advantage.   When it's not to their own advantage they did to hope these rules don't get applied to them.   I have not played AD&D for years now..  You can literally spend hundreds upon hundreds of Dollars buying all the Books though if you really want to learn for yourself.  LOL...



CuriousLord -> RE: Masterhood (5/7/2007 10:02:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daniL

The question I would have about this 'only responsibility is to their Master' theory at the moment is whether or not the slave as family-- children, siblings, parents, etc. I think this would be a difficult, if not impossible dynamic under those circumstances...


That's a good question.

For me, my slave is enstranged from her family.  Well, at odds with her mother, and probably despises her father more than the sum of everything else on Earth.  She has only one sibling she's fond of, a younger brother I allow her to visit.  This is when she breaks from the dynamic I've presented in desiring something else- to see her brother.

I haven't worked out what we'll do about kids yet.  There is a simple solution- I can just order her to be a good mother to them, and that'll basically cover most of the major points.  I could make more specific guidelines after that, but I'm confident it will work well enough.

The dynamic I presented in the OP is a large part, a basis, for the one I live.  It's still not completely inclusive yet, though.  I made the OP, largely, because I came to understand it much better, though there's still thought to be done.



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