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RE: Formation of dominants and submissive - 5/6/2007 6:52:33 PM

ICGsteve

Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
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My father was an abusive drunk, my mother a passive aggressive victim. I decided that I never wanted to be part of power games, or be masculine. I spent about fifteen years rounding myself in Zen and Tao before my marriage started to fall apart and I needed to take a new tact.

My wife was heavily sexually abused as a child, never healed from it, and as an adult was increasingly an angry abuser (of me). I was pretty slow, not ever figuring out that me being caring, loving, supporting (ie soft) was not working for her. When she filled for divorce a light bulb went off.

Since that time we have been moving increasingly to a D/s dynamic. I feel that I am embracing the masculinity that I had spent most of a lifetime running from, and she is slowly using her increasing acceptance of her submissiveness to find peace and happiness.

(in reply to soulfulkitten)

Post #: 41

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 6:54:00 PM

sublimelysensual

Posts: 298
Joined: 7/25/2005
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I had to sit down and think about this one..my mother is a very controlling person towards me..oddly enough, with my brother, it was/is pretty much the opposite. I can honestly say that once I hit 16 or so, all I could think about was getting out, while I was there I constantly was aware of everything I did/said/etc and the effect it would have on her, the thought process being that if I proved to her I was trustworthy, not wild, a "good girl", she might loosen up some on the rules. Of course that never happened, and I do think that has a lot to do with my need to please. -laughs- On the other hand, it also taught me the difference between dominant and domineering..I've had a lot of people ask me why, after growing up in that environment, I would want to submit to anyone, and my answer is there's a difference in making a choice to submit, and not having that choice, and I think for me to be able to make the choice might be a method of empowering myself in a way I was never able to do with her, as well as giving me that outlet where being pleasing, obedient, a "good girl" is a positive thing and not something that's looked down upon, but rather something to be appreciated. Thank You, SimplyMichael for making me think about this more, it helped me to clarify some things within myself, and I love it when that happens...

-a

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." -Simone De Beauvoir -'The Second Sex'

(in reply to soulfulkitten)

Post #: 42

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 7:16:02 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I had one boyfriend before I met my exhusband at 19. Both that boyfriend and my exhusband were asexual self-centered guys. I didn't want any kind of attention, so that didn't bother me and it was easier for me to focus on them than have them focus on me. My ex never showed much in the way of emotion beyond a condescending protectiveness. He was safe relative to the environment I grew up in but our relationship was platonic and focused on intellectual matters. There was no passion.

I have never before understood why anyone would choose those sorts of guys. Thanks for a very revealing post!

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 43

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 7:18:16 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

I wasn't planning on doing open heart surgery on myself today...Add disclaimer about not using BDSM as therapy here...

I am not even sure what to say but that has to be one of the most amazing stories I have ever heard and beats my darkest by a mile. I am happy that you have found someone who can take care of you, you certainly should have a cosmic karma account in the high six figures!

(in reply to smilingjaguar)

Post #: 44

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 7:34:51 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
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I had a rocky childhood and had no control over events that took place.
As a result its really hard for Me to not be in control of everything.

Thank goodness I have great friends that can deal with Me being...ummm
Bossy..lol

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 45

RE: Formation of dominants and submissive - 5/6/2007 8:20:55 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

I thought my childhood was better then a Fairy Tale. No abuse, spoiled rotten, had everything good that life could offer. But looking back on it now, I see where all I had were things. I had a half sister that when I was 7 was diagnosed with Cancer, my mother spent the next 7 years rarely home. I had no choice but to become Daddy’s girl. Daddy, self employed and always busy kept my days filled with ~things~, but little attention. By the time I could drive summers were spent over the top independent, traveling states away dragging my horse behind me. Winter I’d be out partying with friends. That’s when I tested my Dad’s nerves and found myself most often air born across a room. I had total freedom to do what I wanted 90% of the time but every so often I’d get put thru a wall. At the time I didn’t realize how I craved something that offered more structure. I needed to ~feel~ what I didn’t have.

My Father passed when I was 19. My Mother empty still over my sisters passing left me for the most part on my own. Unhealthy relationship after unhealthy relationship never found discipline or structure.
But being so gender related I waited for them to set the rules, … … they never did.
20 years later I stumbled here to CM after finally finding a word to put with what
I had been missing all these years. And the best part was I had found kink along the way that none of these boy’s I had spent time with cared to try.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to ICGsteve)

Post #: 46

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 8:20:58 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

I grew up in a wonderfully structured home where there were established rules and guidelines, strong values and morals were instilled. There was plenty of love, praise, guidance and nurturing. There was also responsibility, discipline and accountability.

Thank You Mist..this was my home life as well...you sure we are not sisters and have a bad case of amnesia???..

...Tempting

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 47

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 12:54:01 AM

Arabella21

Posts: 12
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline

Hi A/all

I'll start out by saying that I have had a blessed life. My parents were neither abusive or unstable. When I was younger they used to drink a lot, and due to my mother having had a ridiculously hard life I suppose she used to smack me a bit hard. That resolved as I grew older, I guess she learned more about herself and was able to come to terms with her own abuse. That aside, I was never physically or sexually abused. I can think of a few points that may have contributed to my submissive nature, but really who knows what makes us who we are?

As a child in primary school I excelled, I am intelligent so it was always easy to know what the teachers wanted and I delivered it to them. I relished being "a good kid". In high school I fell in with the 'wrong crowd' for awhile and my marks suffered. I worked a monotonous job for years as a result and was a bit lost until I started my nursing career, and am now very satisfied because I am good at my job. I think I crave or seek approval, somehow it completes me a little bit more.

My mother was always the dominant one in our household. She kept everything running smoothly. I am also like that in my everyday life, very much in control, so I think it refreshes me to be able to relinquish that responsibility sometimes. My father worked as an electrician but became ill and my mother and myself cared for him. Over the years, I think my mother came to resent him and I always hated the fact that he was so browbeaten by her, it just didn't seem right. The dynamic of it upset my sensibilities, I had always been drawn to the strong man / little woman scenario and I suppose my home situation just enforced that feeling.

I think I am a romantic at heart. I think I have felt for a long time that it can be ok for women to defer to men. A 'gone with the wind' mentality so to speak. As I was an only child I spent a lot of my spare time reading and loved the classics and older fairytales. Not the disney type ones but the tales that had a bit of substance that not always ended happily. I read fantasy and science fiction, romance novels, anything I could get my hands on. I guess that it had some impact on the formation of my submission. It feels right and satisfies my ideals to succumb to the will of a dominant man.

I have always been drawn equally to the 'light' and 'dark' sides of existence. Life is so intricate and beautiful that I have always wanted to truly know and live it. I like to push my limits, I like being a bit scared, a bit out of control. Bdsm intrigues me. For me it is a soul searching experience. It's amazing how relinquishing control can be so empowering. I am new to this but what I have experienced has captivated me.

Well, there's my thoughts. Compliments on a great thread topic also.

arabella xo

_____________________________

I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy ~ Anais Nin

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 48

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 1:08:56 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
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No, I had two (well, still have two) fantastic parents. I don't think I could have done better with any other two parents in the world. They love each other deeply and provided a safe, warm, and nurturing home for me to grow up in.

And I was dreaming about crucifying naked women and torturing them by the age of 3.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am curious how true this is for others who identify as a dominant, did you have one or more controlling parent?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 49

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 1:09:36 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

...So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

it was the opposite of chaos---everything had a place and it better be in it, or there was hell to pay. Mom had a spotless, organized house---and she didn't lift a finger to clean after her female offspring were old enough to hold a rag and wipe.

it was very militaristic, for a few years they even required Sir or Ma'am be attached to responses. Mom made sure we knew they weren't "our" rooms, clothes, toys or food---they were merely allowing us to use them.

this slave became increasingly comfortable with the idea of being someone's prized posession/servant/devotee without any sexual component. it was reinforced daily for her entire developmental period and then on into adulthood as her parents took care and responsibility for her health and welfare and the health and welfare of their grand-wee ones.

upon realization that folks divvy up D/s in a formal relationship structure, this slave saw that she had at least two choices:

1. embrace this slave's upbringing and feed the drive, desire, calling and skill for servitude, submission and structure and thrive as is

OR

2. go through a complete mental reconditioning to learn to react, behave and accept what this slave refers to as "socially-accepted submission/dominance" or "vanilla" as second nature.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 50

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 1:24:15 AM

SDFemDom4cuck

Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline

Wonderful thought provoking thread Michael.

I had a wonderful childhood. Spoiled to some perhaps but I still knew the value of things. I was never spanked as a child but my father was a disciplinarian in that he would discuss the problem and give a suggested solution. His worst punishment was the silent treatment for a few hours and then he would cave. Mom was stay at home until I was in HS then went to school to become a nurse. Mom deferred to my father in all things. He ran the show. It was only after his death that she became much more dominant in her own right. This causes us to butt heads more often than not.

I'm highly intelligent and was encouraged to be inquisitive, to ask questions and to learn on my own. I was also encouraged to be anything I wished to be by both parents but moreso my father. (I was named Jo after the character in Little Women for a reason).

I was taught proper manners and ettiquette but also that I didn't have to conform to societal standards of girls or women. I was encouraged to speak up and speak out, to fight for what I believed in and to stand my ground despite being quite small. I grew up in a relatively small Midwestern town where females pretty much went to college to earn their Mrs. degree rather than to be educated. So I was always pretty different to begin with in that I was encouraged not to settle for less than what I wanted and deserved.

As for being Dominant, perhaps that encouragement to break out of the mold was part of it. I also know that I was pretty much this way for as long as I can remember. I remember being caught with one of the neighbor's boys tied to a chair naked and whipping him with a length of rope for blowing the head off my barbie with a firecracker. From that I remember a very long discussion with my father about why I would do that (because I wanted to) and why it was inappropriate to do so. Although in the background I also remember a bit of a chuckle over just don't get caught doing it next time.

While I'm not sure I answered your question or not it certainly was great food for thought on what influences my life had on my becoming who/what I am today. I went home for a year to take care of mom during an illness and it was an experience I try not to dwell on. She's now completely the opposite of the mom I grew up with. Very assertive, controlling and outspoken. The idea of being late 30's and yet treated somewhat like a child was definitely a mind bender, so I can understand a bit what you're going through in your situation. I would imagineit is difficult but try to see the light at the end of the tunnel and that the goal at the end of it will be worth the struggle you're experiencing now.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 51

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 1:28:55 AM

charlotte12

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
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Thank you for this topic Michael. It is something i often think about. I often feel that perhaps my inclination towards submission goes to an unhealthy place for me and i'm still trying to figure out how to explore it and get what i want without hurting myself.

I know that for me it started as a fascination with punishment. As a young girl i enjoyed thinking about being punished. I would re-read the parts in the books when children were spanked. Later i would imagine a worse punishment such as getting whipped. When i got older and began to become aware of sexuality i would imagine sexual punishment or rape. These were my first and only sexual fantasies for a long time. I did not know about submission or bdsm.

As to your question, i'm not sure if this comes from my childhood. I've been asked before if i've been abused. The answer is that i'm not sure. Sometimes i would say that i was emotionally abused by my mother. Sometimes i am more likely to say that she was not perfect but always has the best of intentions. Sometimes i tell myself i'm making too big of a deal out of things and i had a wonderful childhood, who am to complain. Sometimes i begin to think i have repressed worse memories. Sometimes i know this is not true.

Anyway, what i'm trying to say is that i feel that for me it comes from too many places to say what exactly has caused my inclinations. i feel the fantasies as a child were very innocent and i do not rememberthem feeling dirty or wrong. However i do know that as an adult i often take these fantasies to a very dark side, wanting to feel used, worthless. Perhaps the initial desire comes from a natural inclination and the unhealthy part comes from low self-esteem probably brought on by my unstable mother. I don't know.

Ok, i'lll stop rambling. I cannot seem to say quite what i mean. thanks for the topic. i have enjoyed thinking about it and reading the responses.

~"charlotte"

(in reply to tricia)

Post #: 52

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 1:36:39 AM

NakedGirlScout

Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
Status: offline

My parents were crazy freaks who created a living hell of a chaotic home life.
However I began to have wildly submissive fantasies from the age of two (the earliest I can recall). I don't think such sexuality at such an age could have come from anything other than hard-wiring in the womb.

(in reply to charlotte12)

Post #: 53

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 6:14:56 AM

Smythe

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

No, I had two (well, still have two) fantastic parents. I don't think I could have done better with any other two parents in the world. They love each other deeply and provided a safe, warm, and nurturing home for me to grow up in.

And I was dreaming about crucifying naked women and torturing them by the age of 3.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am curious how true this is for others who identify as a dominant, did you have one or more controlling parent?

Exactly ditto for me, except mine's with the naked boys.
Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 54

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 6:41:48 AM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

We often hear that submissives are formed from abusive parents and I think many of us have seen enough examples to know that, while common, certainly isn't universal. So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

I grew up in the complete opposite environment. My parents were strict, controlling, provided all the boundaries and structure etc. I sought an owner to manage me and define the boundaries and rules of engagement for me. I can't do it on my own. You'd think being raised in that envionemnt I could but I can't. I was never abused either.

However, my fantasies of being owned, controlled, used, began around agee 4 or 5(probably much younger).

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 5/7/2007 6:44:02 AM >

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 55

RE: Formation of dominants and submissive - 5/7/2007 12:34:19 PM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

My father died when I was 16, but he was basically non-existant in my life previously to that. His funeral was the first time I had seen him in a few years. It's not that I grew up without rules or with no structure. It wasn't complete chaos. It's kind of hard to explain exactly what it lacked. I never had a strong male authority figure in my life.

My mother couldn't be my father. There is just a sort of structure that a healthy father instills in children. I see the difference in my friends who grew up with a mother and father. I missed that and I can feel that spot in myself where it should have been. And I think sometimes (most of the times) that this is one of the biggest reason I was drawn to this lifestyle. Almost like wow I finally found a relationship built on the foundation of my partner making the decisions and setting the structure.

My friends tell me that my boyfriend acts like my Dad and it makes me smile inside, because they're right. At first, it weirded me out that the guy who tied me up was also the closest I've ever had to a father. But I love my current relationship and I find it very satisfying to finally have that.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to ICGsteve)

Post #: 56

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 1:15:24 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I pretty much know why I feel more comfortable in a sub role, even though I can be a formidable presence. My parents were extremely strict with my siblings. I think by the time I came around they had given up. They were thankful I was a quiet kid and didn't ask many questions that would change their good opinion of me.
I don't think structure is the best description of why I do this. I think its more that I need to be seen as a person of value. I have a good deal of confidence in my talents and intelligence. I have depended on both to get by in the world, and I do it well. But for me knowing I can survive isn't the same as knowing someone thinks that by having me in their life, they can THRIVE.
I want to be valued. I want to feel like I mean something to someone. I want someone to need me like I need them. It gets a little wearing trying hard to be visible.
I don't want to try so hard find MY perfection. I find my soul relaxes when I can see my strengths mirrored back in the value someone finds in having me beside them.
Logically I know I should be fine being the intelligent, creative, successful woman that I am.
I KNOW this. I just don't feel it.
For me, that is the difference between people who do this for fun and variety, and someone who could not exist another way.

So yes.. I do think that many people that many people do this out of insecurity. The danger lies when your own insecurity demands you keep your partner unbalanced. But if you can match with someone who is willing to work with you to find comfort for both.. then it can be magic.
With luck and communication the white knight mentality will not seek out another lost soul to save, and people can be OK being happy.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 57

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 1:33:25 PM

NikonButterfly

Posts: 1
Status: offline

SimplyMichael,

To answer your question regarding submissives, I grew up in a less than kind environment. My mother was mentally ill. She offered almost no kindness or signs of love. She never touched us and she was ALWAYS disappointed in me. I was never able to do anything right, even if I did everything exactly the way she wanted. If something held value in my life, she physically destroyed and told me it was my fault and that I deserved it. She never helped me when my brother beat me, and she told me if I cried that I was disgusting and to leave her sight.

My father never showed interest in me. I was nothing to him. He would come home, yell at my mom for anything and everything, then he would get on the computer until he went to bed. He did however seem to find interest in young boys...a less than decent interest.

I think I have discovered my attraction to being loved by a dominant, and being a submissive to him. I believe it is because I crave the intense attention. I want to be noticed, having every detail of myself paid attention to. I also want a leader to help me move forward in new directions because I don't initiate change on my own accord, as it is part of my nature...even though I crave variety. I am also timid to love and express myself sexually, so I like domination to set me free. It allows me to feel all the things I want to, but am either too nervous to "put on the table" myself, or do not know how to do.

I should probably clarify though, I am not the type of submissive who has interest in being hit, whipped, or severely punished for silly things. I am more the type to enjoy being tied up, taken advantage of, gagged, and occasionally spanked when I deliberately push his buttons to find those boundaries I crave. I enjoy mental domination, so long as there are no games or abuse.

I hope that help answers your question.

As you search for the answer to who you are and why you are that way, you may want to consider my theory. We are an accumulation of everything that we have been given genetically, and have experienced in our lives. Everything from being left alone to cry in our cribs, being told not to cry when we got "owies" as children, falling in love with the wrong highschool sweetheart, and watching and learning what society thinks of certain things. We can't take away anything that has been put into us. Our experiences are what they are and we can't forget our pasts (even if we are desperate to). I believe that all we can do is acknowledge where we are now and how we got here. Then, it becomes our responsibility to decide what is healthy and right for, set a goal for where we want to be in the future and come up with a game plan on how to get there.

If anything we do in our lives brings us guilt, then surely it has no place in our lives. We have to study the past to know why we do it, then learn from the past so we don't repeat it. If we have found something that brings us great happiness, then I think we need to understand why that thing brings us such joy, and then find ways to implement that understanding to other areas in our lives so that we can experience a more full joy in the years to come.

I believe it all comes down to the very thing you search for: why. Some things don't have answer though. Your mother is controlling. Is she controlling because she is genetically predisposed to be a strong-willed, detailed oriented and over-involved person? Or, is she controlling because she fears losing something? Does she believe control is the same as showing interest in those she loves? Is she controlling because she has a medical imbalance that prevents her from seeing things logically?

If you think your mom plays a roll in who you are today, then you may want to sit down with her in a non-confrontational environment and open a discussion to better understand her and why she is who she is. You can bring up a specific incident in your life where she was controlling and ask her, "When this happened, you responded this way. I'm curious why you took the position you did. I want to understand better why you made that decision." If you approach her in a open way, she will be less likely to become defensive and lie from the tension in the room. If she was controlling even as a child then domination may simply be in both your genes. To better understand yourself, you may need to understand where/what you came from.

Just my thoughts. Sorry, I tend to be a wee bit verbose.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 58

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 1:48:26 PM

Nikko1962

Posts: 31
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

I grew up in a wonderfully structured home where there were established rules and guidelines, strong values and morals were instilled. There was plenty of love, praise, guidance and nurturing. There was also responsibility, discipline and accountability.

Thank You Mist..this was my home life as well...you sure we are not sisters and have a bad case of amnesia???.....Tempting

Great, great post. Thanks.

Thanks for the validation. I had the same childhood. Idealic. Two full time parents, mother stayed at home, etc. Standard Nebraska childhood. Right out of Leave it To Beaver. I dont' think I would be doing what I'm doing professionally or personally if I was not taught self esteem and personal boundries from my parents.

If anything instigated any D/s behavior, it was a babysitter who I adored. She provided Attention, Acceptance and then Authority. I used to perform some type of loving disobedience to get her attention. I almost burned down our house while she was watching over me. I think, technically, I'm still grounded (it was for life). After her, I rarely if ever had a relationship with women my age or younger. Who would have known?

_____________________________

Everything you want is on the other side of fear.

If you are going to hide in the haystack from me, at least make a little noise.

http://www.myspace.com/124184605

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 59

RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/7/2007 2:32:10 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

If you think your mom plays a roll in who you are today, then you may want to sit down with her in a non-confrontational environment and open a discussion to better understand her and why she is who she is. You can bring up a specific incident in your life where she was controlling and ask her, "When this happened, you responded this way. I'm curious why you took the position you did. I want to understand better why you made that decision." If you approach her in a open way, she will be less likely to become defensive and lie from the tension in the room. If she was controlling even as a child then domination may simply be in both your genes. To better understand yourself, you may need to understand where/what you came from.

Oh trust me I have done this and she has gotten better over the years. However, I learned my self centeredness from her and while I have broken mine down considerably, hers is still pretty much intact. We were having the above sort of question when I mentioned that "you know mom on some very real level, when you get angry, I get scared" and she laughed at that. I mean who could imagine a son having any sort of fear of his mother? Yeah right. I push when and where I can but I can't force her to grow and trust me, she isn't interested in much growth at the moment.

Again thanks for all the wonderful comments here and privately, this has been an amazing thread.

(in reply to NikonButterfly)

Post #: 60

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