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Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 10:20:46 AM   
farglebargle


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It's a shame when High School students have to remind The President of his duty.



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים
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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 12:27:40 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This article about the Taguba report (on Abu Ghraib), by the famed Seymour Hersh, is extremely depressing:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 12:55:08 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline 		Haha, sorry had to giggle. But the terroist perform torture, cause permint bodily harm and usually death to our soliders. What we do to get information is a far leap from torture in my opinon

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 1:03:21 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

Haha, sorry had to giggle. But the terroist perform torture, cause permint bodily harm and usually death to our soliders. What we do to get information is a far leap from torture in my opinon


Then you'll volunteer your Mother and/or Children for it?

Maybe in 5 years you will see them again. Maybe not.

If it's "not torture", then it's perfectly fine to subject YOUR FAMILY to it, isn't it?

If it's not for everyone, then it's not Equal Protection OR Due Process.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/26/2007 1:05:11 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 1:14:03 PM   
flowered


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

Haha, sorry had to giggle. But the terroist perform torture, cause permint bodily harm and usually death to our soliders. What we do to get information is a far leap from torture in my opinon


But is it even worthwhile? You blacken your countries name, screw up moral standards, and make everyone hate us...for something I see as useless- Any idiot with half a brain can make up rediculaous things before the pain gets to bad that they won't believe you by the time you break and tell em.
Also, arn't there drugs now that make torture kinda pointless? I mean you can just get a guy drunk and act sympathetic and they spill. I Imagine there are powerful drugs which would give a higher degree of sucsess.

*disclaimer* I appolagise for any rudeness, abruptness, bad spelling, and anything that may piss you off...won't stop me from doing it, but I am ever so sorry. ^^

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 2:00:06 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

Haha, sorry had to giggle. But the terroist perform torture, cause permint bodily harm and usually death to our soliders. What we do to get information is a far leap from torture in my opinon


Then you'll volunteer your Mother and/or Children for it?

Maybe in 5 years you will see them again. Maybe not.

If it's "not torture", then it's perfectly fine to subject YOUR FAMILY to it, isn't it?

If it's not for everyone, then it's not Equal Protection OR Due Process.




If my family new things that could save lifes and refused to speak or if they were a part of a radical group than yes, I would subject them to it. There are far worse things than sleep depervation, chilly rooms, loud rock music and the more extream water boarding. We could do what other less humain people do. Like cutting off fingers, severe beating, putting people in cages with large hungry felions, or even decapitation.

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 5:42:14 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I often wonder just how delusional Shrub actually is and how much is purposeful?
Does he believe the lies because he has told them so often?
Or is he simply a pathological liar?

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 5:44:59 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

Haha, sorry had to giggle. But the terroist perform torture, cause permint bodily harm and usually death to our soliders. What we do to get information is a far leap from torture in my opinon


Then you'll volunteer your Mother and/or Children for it?

Maybe in 5 years you will see them again. Maybe not.

If it's "not torture", then it's perfectly fine to subject YOUR FAMILY to it, isn't it?

If it's not for everyone, then it's not Equal Protection OR Due Process.




If my family new things that could save lifes and refused to speak or if they were a part of a radical group than yes,



That's a dishonest qualification, I didn't say that anyone KNEW ANYTHING.

And SINCE NOT ONE of the prisoners has been given an ARRAIGNMENT ON CHARGES, it's dishonest to suggest for even a second that they *do* have information which could save lives.


Remember, no-one being held as an "enemy combatant" has had ANY charges files, ANY competent counsel, or ANY day in court, and no one knows if THEY know anything?

They're NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING until found so in a Court of Law.

Why should YOU be treated any different from them?

So, back to our scenario.

Since whether or not there is even any worthwhile intel to extract, let's say, if your father *supposedly* knew *something*, should...

Should your mother be raped to induce him to talk?

Should *you* be snatched off the street by US Gov't Agents, raped and threatened with death if it would induce him to talk?

It's only one or two more lives vs. thousands, according to your logic, isn't it?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/26/2007 5:47:20 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 5:45:19 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

I often wonder just how delusional Shrub actually is and how much is purposeful?
Does he believe the lies because he has told them so often?
Or is he simply a pathological liar?


As far as I can tell, career politicians fit the profile of partial psychopathy to a 'T'... can't imagine why this particular one would be an exception.

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 6:10:31 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Stripping a man nude, handcuffing him, throwing him onto a wet floor, and shoving a plug up his ass...that's torture.  The Army itself didn't believe these people had any valuable information, though that's really beside the point.

Maybe you didn't bother to read the article.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

What we do to get information is a far leap from torture in my opinon

(in reply to Casie)
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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 6:35:37 PM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		torture?
u mean like giving victims of a highjacked plane a chance to call thier loved ones to say goodbye?
torture?
u mean like beheading journalist, and seeing to it that its aires everywhere?
torture?
u mean doing to them, what oh so many dommes do to thier sub/slaves here in our own lil community...rofl

yea :( we are badddddddd americans :(
and please keep the " we have to show we are better then them" arguments a lil silent.
cause all we have to do,,is whatever it takes, to keep another unprovoked attack from happenig on our soil!

whose next? maybe next time they blow up ur local mall,,or ur kids school?  hmm..perhaps the info they found at gitmo, has helped to keep us free from attack here?
perhaps not? but i know we havent been atteacked,,,u can call it luck...ill call it good interrogation and follow thru

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 6:50:03 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This wasn't Gitmo, this was Abu Ghraib.  Maybe you don't bother with such nettlesome details.  Anyway, the Army has said they didn't get jackshit from the people they were torturing in Abu Ghraib.  For that matter, everyone in the Defense Department has admitted that what happened at Abu Ghraib was wrong.  The only unanswered question is how it all started--and was allowed to continue.  So if you think it was all for the good, you're saying that you know better than the Army how they should have conducted interrogations at Abu Ghraib.  Let me guess: you have no credentials whatsoever, but why let that slow you down...

Shaking head...astounding ignorance on the part of a population that just doesn't want to hear the truth.  I bet you didn't read the article either.  I bet you don't see any reason why you should.

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

whose next? maybe next time they blow up ur local mall,,or ur kids school?  hmm..perhaps the info they found at gitmo, has helped to keep us free from attack here?
perhaps not? but i know we havent been atteacked,,,u can call it luck...ill call it good interrogation and follow thru

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 6:57:22 PM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		lordandmaster,,,,. great self title btw,
u are correct, i did mistype and place gitmo where i should of typed abu graib.....
by i dont feel any differently. and ur attempt at belittling, and half assed attempt at intimidating is laffable at best.

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 7:05:32 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Sigh.  Looks like I was right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I bet you didn't read the article either.  I bet you don't see any reason why you should.

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 7:10:51 PM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		but arent u always?

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 7:12:05 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		....do people really believe in torturing people who only might have information? How would one make the determination of who might know something of terrorist acts? Who would they trust to make that call?

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 7:13:36 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		What are you talking about?  They're Iraqis.  Of course they have information.  If they didn't want to be tortured they shouldn't have decided to be Iraqis.

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 7:16:11 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

What are you talking about?  They're Iraqis.  Of course they have information.  If they didn't want to be tortured they shouldn't have decided to be Iraqis.


....hmmm, i think there may be a flaw in that argument, but i'm not sure exactly where........

.....soooooo, how come this doesn't apply to all nations that have produced terrorists? Ireland? the UK? Germany?...er.....the US?

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 7:16:35 PM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		hey philo,
i certainly wouldnt trust myself to do that job. but i do have faith in the powers at be who have been trained in such matters. and of course i dont want them to pick peeps at random. but when u are carrying a weapon against our troops in a field of battle. then i figure you are open game . just as in any other war . god help those who have to do that kind of work, but im glad they are there.

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/26/2007 7:20:41 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

hey philo,
i certainly wouldnt trust myself to do that job. but i do have faith in the powers at be who have been trained in such matters. and of course i dont want them to pick peeps at random. but when u are carrying a weapon against our troops in a field of battle. then i figure you are open game . just as in any other war . god help those who have to do that kind of work, but im glad they are there.


......i'm glad that you concede the terible responsibility involved here, though a little disturbed at how easily you seem to trust the government or the military. Problem is, the people at both Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are not composed entirely of people taken from battlefields by US personnel. i think we are all glad that there are people out there involved in counter terrorism, but some of us have sincere doubts as to whether torturing people who may not be terrorists actually protects anyone...potentially the opposite occurs.

(in reply to uwinceismile)
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