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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/28/2011 5:52:08 PM   
CreepyStalker


Posts: 265
Joined: 2/12/2011
Status: offline 		See, if you did this to me I'd probably end up gnawing my own arm off to get free and then using my remaining arm to claw your eyes out once the panic had subsided. But I'm probably not representative of your average person, although you might want to wear goggles (and riot gear if your particularly safety concious) just in case.

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/28/2011 6:13:47 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		No, I wouldn't. While I know the chances of something happening are very slim, there is always the chance. Add that to the fact that I personally don't see anything particularly hot about the idea, why take the chance.

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/28/2011 6:15:07 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Carol adds: I think leaving two teenagers alone in the house for an evening seems a lot more risky.


Yea, I would have to agree with that one.


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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/28/2011 6:17:15 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Carol adds: I think leaving two teenagers alone in the house for an evening seems a lot more risky.


Yea, I would have to agree with that one.



Yes, It'd be awful to come home to an un-emptied dishwasher......:)

It gives me palpitations daring to imagine the floors won't be vacuumed *properly*, when I've left them alone while I'm losing my soul at a festival.

I can barely imagine leaving them alone this year ...It'll be such a task...lol

agirl




< Message edited by agirl -- 3/28/2011 6:22:44 PM >

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/28/2011 6:47:50 PM   
0ldhen


Posts: 2221
Joined: 12/27/2010
From: Henhouse in Trolltopia, Harleyville USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Let's not get anal here.  That's another thread. 



But....LP.....geez........goes off pouting.......


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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/28/2011 6:56:03 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

No, I wouldn't. While I know the chances of something happening are very slim, there is always the chance. Add that to the fact that I personally don't see anything particularly hot about the idea, why take the chance.


Okay I like this comment and therein lies the nub. Some people do find something hot about the idea, or they would not agree to it, no?

And that is one of the things I am trying to figure out in my own mind.

Years ago, when I was first flexing my domme wings, I used to co-dom with a male bi dom in his private dungeon. He was more or less my first mentor. I did a lot of casual play with people I hardly knew, just for the fun. One night, my friend was at work and I had a session with a female, who wanted to continue. I was tired, bored frankly, and put her in a cage, since she has kept expressing interest in it. (Prior to this time I had never caged anyone on my own.)

Anyway, I was tired and bored and my friend never showed up so I left her there, in the cage. There were others in the house and others in the dungeon, but no one responsible for this girl. I left my friend a note, something along the lines of, "I got her ready for you, she is all yours."

A few hours after I got home, my friend called me livid, demanding I return to his place. He would not tell me why. The entire way there I was having fits about what could have happened to her. She seemed so safe when I left.

It turned out, she was not having any physical problems, she did not crash emotionally, instead, she was flying. I mean flying high like a kite over being left alone in the cage. It took the two of us the rest of the night to get her safely landed and cared for and okay to leave.

This experience taught me more than one valuable lesson. Previous to this incident I was very cavalier about the s types I played with. I was learning about how to deal with physical safety, though I still had much to learn. What I knew next to nothing about was emotional safety. My friend and mentor made it very clear to me that even in a casual play session, the dominant is responsible for the submissive, and not just physically, but emotionally as well. I learned that even though you can plan for physical things, emotional things, you just never know when there will crop up.

Since that time, I have never again abdicated my responsibilities as a dominant.

So for me, the one true way has always been "you never bind or cage a sub and then leave them alone." And I do mean really alone, not just gone for a pee or a smoke.

I am not trying to preach the one true way here, I am more interested in.....what was so fantastic about being left alone, this girl would fly? Now I can see, I abandoned her, but instead of making her panic, it turned her on. This has always really confused me, and why I started this thread.

All input welcome








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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/28/2011 7:59:54 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		For me, it depends.

Leaving me alone in a cage? Sure, no problem.

Leaving me alone in a typical easy binding position? Again I'm fine with it.

Leaving me alone in a position where there's the possibility of the noose strangling me or something slipping into a lethal target area? Probably not so safe but..yup there's a but here...

I trust him with my life.

I know he doesn't do things without thinking everything the whole way through. That's just how he is about every single area of his life. We've been together long enough that it's just simply not even a concern to me anymore. If he decided to leave me alone in whatever way he has me then I trust he understands the ins and outs and it's not something I should even be worried about...that's why he's the Dom and I'm not.


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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 1:09:42 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		ChatteParfaitt

what you say there is exactly what i have been trying to say about resonsibility. so ok in your case the girl flew, and lucky her, but what about the person who doesn't. i think you have it just right although your person was on the other end of the scale emotionally.

i have to say that i'm more than a little confused about people compairing being tied up with no escape and left for hours with leaving your teenagers at home or going to the shop. it's about responsibility and culpability for me. yes i leave my teenager at home, but he isn't tied up, therefore should something happen he has Every chance of escape. i'm not going to be blamed for his death. if something happens to me while i'm out then that still does not put him in any danger of not being found, or him not being able to contact someone.

questions for those of you who think it's ok and do do it. when you leave someone, or you are the one being left, what sort of provisions do you make reguarding safety? some have said that their partner thinks of everything. so is there a note telling you were a key/knife is in case of emergency? do you have access to a phone? do you have a contract that covers the Dom/me if it all goes wrong? does no-one really, and i do mean very seriously, care about culpability if it does go wrong in a big way?

i really am trying to understand this guys, so if all you can do is be sarcastic or flippant then don't bother.

also, why is it that some feel it's ok to tell those with apposing opinions to get a grip? i'm sure if i had said that instead of trying to understand where other are coming from people would have been up in arms. we are all entitled to our opinion, and where someone else's well being/life is concerned my grip is fully got thanks. i personally don't take the risk because it's not worth it to me, and i wouldn't put it on someone else for my jollies either. you don't agree, fine but with the accusations of 'the one true way' being bandied about, then surely this is the same thing.

needles

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 1:24:17 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

See, if you did this to me I'd probably end up gnawing my own arm off to get free and then using my remaining arm to claw your eyes out once the panic had subsided. But I'm probably not representative of your average person, although you might want to wear goggles (and riot gear if your particularly safety concious) just in case.


Ahhhhhhhh Ok then and thanks for the heads up.....

[Makes Note to issue stun grenades, steel shackles and chains as well as cattle prods set to max for handling this one]



Have to wonder how saleable you are on the open market...


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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 1:32:41 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		needles, I'm probably one of the more combative and sarcastic bastards here (I think), reading your posts it seems to me (aye i could be wrong too) that at times you are very aggressive when perhaps a subtler approach may have worked better. I know Jeff as well as I could on line, and usually he is the model of reason but he's not noted for patience with combative or appearing aggressive posts. Strewth I expect he ignores half of mine because I do go just a tad over board often enough to fuck up my credibility.. You have opinions and a way of looking at things which  find refreshing even though we'd stand opposing each other in many areas. I have managed to view a number of situations through your eyes which has been a great learning experience. 

In all honesty there are only a couple of posters current on CM who are outright pricks and who personally I'd love see leave permanently. (personal feeling there) They make themselves known often by their use of the misfortunes of others as a basis of outright mockery and futile attempts to discredit others. Jeff is no where near their low standard..


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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 1:44:44 AM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline 		Am I a prick?

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 2:02:01 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

needles, I'm probably one of the more combative and sarcastic bastards here (I think), reading your posts it seems to me (aye i could be wrong too) that at times you are very aggressive when perhaps a subtler approach may have worked better. I know Jeff as well as I could on line, and usually he is the model of reason but he's not noted for patience with combative or appearing aggressive posts. Strewth I expect he ignores half of mine because I do go just a tad over board often enough to fuck up my credibility.. You have opinions and a way of looking at things which  find refreshing even though we'd stand opposing each other in many areas. I have managed to view a number of situations through your eyes which has been a great learning experience. 

In all honesty there are only a couple of posters current on CM who are outright pricks and who personally I'd love see leave permanently. (personal feeling there) They make themselves known often by their use of the misfortunes of others as a basis of outright mockery and futile attempts to discredit others. Jeff is no where near their low standard..



for many years my opinion were excessively repressed because growing up i wasn't allowed an opinion or to question anything. to question anything my mum said was likely to get me a smack in the mouth. i spent years never saying anything to anyone and being treated like a doormat because of it.

these days i have my opinions and i'll voice them. i'll say whether i thing something is right or wrong. i try to be very to the point which i guess can come over as aggressive but i'm just trying not to waffle, which i am very prone to doing. but also i'm a knowledge freak. so to that end i will ask questions and if someone gives a flippant or sarcastic answer instead of a real reasoning answer then i'll question that too. if someone wants to discuss something, even if it gets heated, cool, bring it on. i may not change my mind, i don't expect you to change yours, but we at least may understand each other better if nothing else. some of the hypocracy about posting opinions is massive. i can't question your opinion but you can question mine or belittle it? i don't think so. i'm up for anyone asking questions of me or challenging what i think. if it get's heated so be it. but if you accuse me of something you better be able to back it up. i'm sorry but jeff was way off line in his accusations. i was simply asking if he really didn't care whether carol died and he got sent to jail. he took my words and broke context, he gave rather sarcastic/flippant comments or things that contradicted itself. when i pointed that out he started with the accusations. i asked basic questions to hopefully give me insight from another prospective. if he didn't want to answer he could have just said.

i give my opinion and i will give the reasons, i will also argue those reason is questioned/challenged about it. i don't expect to change anyone else's view, just as i hope they realise they may not change mine. one thing i am very capable of doing though is admitting if i'm wrong if i accused someone of something. also i really don't mind debate, if it gets heated so be it, but once i move out of that thread it's done. i don't carry things over, it's just debate. i have as much right to say if i think something is wrong or silly as the next person.

needles

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 2:07:47 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		FR:

Nope, I wouldn't allow myself to be bound and left alone. Definate deal breaker for me. Yes, run to the bathroom or go get a drink, something like that. He needs to be within my visual or auditory range. I don't really like being tied up, in the first place, and it takes alot of mental focusing to not panic, so I need that re assurance that he is with me.

In general I maintain it's a very bad idea. I trusted both my dominants with my life also. But if I am tied up and they are out of the home or not present, then the person I trust with my life is not there and will not be able to protect my life should something go wrong. That arguement seems pretty ridiculous * to me *. It's really no different than saying he can protect me against a rapist when I am walking home cuz he's my dominant. No, he can't protect a flipping thing if he isn't present.

Aileen mentioned something interesting to me: him dropping dead, same out come. While the outcome is the same, the initial risk was not there. The intent was not to leave me alone. So I see that situation as something beyond either of our control. Likewise if I, the bound one, were to have a heart atttack and die he would be in the same situation as if he left me alone and came back to find me dead, same outcome, but the intent was not to take the risk. I think you would process and deal with that situation a whole lot differently.

I will fully admit, that this is based in my fear of fires. And no one here can tell me my chances of being burned in a fire is negligable. I was burned by falling into a fireplace when I was 2, and I absolutely remember it. I was babysitting at 14 y/o, when due to the negligence of the parents not disposing of the charcol from the afternoon grill properly, the house went on fire, my parents home caught fire due to a family members negligence when I was 16, 2 years ago my father died from a freak fire, that even the fire chief cannot explain. Soo,, ummm yeah, leaving me alone and helpless is a huge NO ! Needless to say fireplay is a big no no too. lol.

I do respect others choice to weigh the risk and go from there, but I can't help but be a bit prejudiced in my thinking that they are extremely foolish for taking certain risks.

mbmbn

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 3:43:03 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Is this something you would ever do with your s type, or allow to be done to you (f you are the s type)

Why and/or why not?


Being an /s type myself, I don't get a whole lot of allowance, so if Himself put me in that situation, well, there I'd be and if, for some reason I balked, there I'd go. It is one of those "his way or the highway" things. Personally, as responsible adults, we would minimize the risk as much as we could. We live in a house with good wiring, in a safe neighborhood and we know our neighbors. The worst case scenario would seem to me to be a threat of fire through some sort of faulty wiring so a well-maintained residence helps to mitigate some of the risk. I don't see it as very different from the risk we take everytime he puts me into bondage. He's older, has some medical issues and could stroke out or drop dead of a heart attack and I would be in a similar if not the same situation and there is no way he's going to be giving up putting me in bondage. If something probably won't happen, then we probably won't be taking things off the table.
quote:

If this seems okay with you, what kind of restraints would you use/allow to be used?


Whatever he wanted.. any, all, none.. his call.

quote:

What kind of safety measures (if any) would you have any place?


As I mentioned, keeping a well-maintained residence, making sure the coffee pot isn't still turned on in the kitchen. there are no candles burning, nothing in the fireplace ... stuff like that and then, if shit happens, we deal and move on. What else can a person do? We are not going to stop living nor do shadows put a lot of scare into our relationship.

Good question.

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Rock, paper, scissors."

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 4:42:28 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

i have to say that i'm more than a little confused about people compairing being tied up with no escape and left for hours with leaving your teenagers at home or going to the shop. i


Sorry about that. I can't speak for the other poster, but in my case it was a joke. There was no serious comparison.


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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 5:17:17 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Strewth, I know teens in my neighbourhood who are never left unattended for fear of them selling drugs from the hume, burning it down tio get reevenge on some parental restriction or raping a female teen in the area..A couple of them are already on bail for multiple serious crimes but the local law and courts do not a thing for fear of bad press.... Only thing we don't have yet are the armed gangs and that will come in time....



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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 6:39:02 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I am not trying to preach the one true way here, I am more interested in.....what was so fantastic about being left alone, this girl would fly? Now I can see, I abandoned her, but instead of making her panic, it turned her on. This has always really confused me, and why I started this thread.


i think it's possible to take something seemingly negative and turn it into a positive or some form of stimuli. That wasn't the perspective i came from in my response. Though i'll confess that i might have a gamut of feelings rushing through me that may range from boredom, fear, arousal, etc. But i return to the Rock and that's my Man. And i don't use those words mindlessly. If i need to engage in a series of checks and balances every time he wishes to do something different or take me a little further i'd have some serious reservations about myself.

In my mind, Ownership isn't a snazzy slap and tickle or some kinky Ren fest we're living out. It truly means that the Man owns me and accepts full responsibility for my person. And that includes every crack and crevice and those i haven't encountered. They're His. i don't believe in some trust. Nor do i desire the flushable sort that's here today and gone tomorrow. my way of relating requires implicit trust that is rooted and fixed.

He is Owner and Sanctuary. And when you know; i mean really know in the pit of your gut that this person has your back and every side called you; and truly wants the best for the collective you... letting go isn't very hard. As a matter of fact, you start dropping barriers to all sorts of things. It doesn't mean you're never afraid or have places you'd rather not explore. But that structure called Him makes it possible and even enjoyable in most instances. my fears aren't bigger than Him. They're surmounted because of Him.

On a personal note, i get this. Truly get it in ways i've never expressed and probably never will. my slavery isn't wrapped up in pretty words and crotch grabbing niceties that sound good in theory but can never be put into play. No, it's a living and breathing entity. Trust isn't something i say to get me off but consciously avoid whenever my comfort zone is challenged. It is something He instills and reinforces because of who He is and what He brings to our relationship.

And i can't fathom how you can have that measure of trust in the other person and in yourself and remain unchanged. i don't understand how you can walk through life fearing everything that goes bump in the night when you have an Owner. And i don't understand how you can all into question His judgment through every change in direction and say Master in the same breath. That's the difference between yielding to a person and submitting to a concept. The latter will always have loopholes. The first brings you closer to the truth. What's so fantastic? The list is limitless. He makes it so.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 8:49:55 AM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

i personally don't take the risk because it's not worth it to me, and i wouldn't put it on someone else for my jollies either.



It's not any different than people who enjoy skydiving, deepsea diving, skiing, or any other form of activity with some inherited danger.

In fact, being left alone while bound isn't all that different from getting on a commercial airline flight to go visit family over the holidays. In both situations you're trapped in a situation that you can't control and in which your survival is solely depended on the actions of another human being.

Are you suggesting that it's logically for people to feel that commercial air travel is a normal acceptable risk, while being left bound is not, simple because there happen to be more people who like the former rather than the later?

As far as safety measures go... people will always tend to take the maximum amount of safety precaution that will still allow them to enjoy the experience. That means a motor cycle rider may or may not wear protective gear, depending on what they find enjoyable, and it means that a fetishist may or may not leave their restrained sub with a backup plan for when things go wrong before they leave the premisses, depending on what they find enjoyable.

People will always take risk that could have been otherwise avoided simple because they enjoy the outcome in those cases where it doesn't go wrong. There is really nothing more to "get" about it than that, and no other questions you can ask that will make it more clear as to why people engage in these types of behaviors. Not unless you also go around asking people why they would possible put their lives into somebody else's hands whenever they've got a plane to catch.

Ishtar

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 3/29/2011 8:50:34 AM >

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Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

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RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 8:54:01 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Love the flying analogy Ishtar lass, personally I find the danger area comes with landing.. Ergo I'd rather take the flight and parachute to ground.. But then I'm just silly ol bear who does strange things.. like jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft, especially with scuba gear on..

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: leaving sub alone while tied/caged - 3/29/2011 9:09:37 AM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks Ironbear.

My husband is actually training to get his private pilot license right now.
I haven't flown with him yet, but will sometime in the near future.

Considering that the mortality rate for general aviation is about 16 per million versus a mortality rate of 13.2 per million of the populations dying in a house fire each year, I'm actually safer if my husband locks me in a cage when he goes flying than when he takes me with him.

In both situations I'd be "locked" in a cage I can't exit of my own will in case of danger, the only difference being that in one scenario, he's in the cage with me, while in the other he's out of the house.

On top of that, he also rides a motorcycle and me riding on the back isn't that uncommon. My risk of dying from being on the back of his bike is about 4 times higher than they it is when I would get in a plane with him, so again, it's also a lot more dangerous to ride on the back of his bike than to be locked up in a cage alone at home.

Moral of the story: NEVER find yourself in the presence of a man, you're generally safer home alone -even locked in a cage- with him out the door.

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 3/29/2011 9:20:55 AM >

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Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

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Profile   Post #: 80
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