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RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 11:55:42 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Trust the moderators all you want - they don't generally step in till things get really abusive - the "clique" is far to  clever as to make it that obvious. 


I trust them.  I don't think moderators should constantly step in and referee spats among posters.  This is not an elementary school playground.  If people can't be tough they probably need to live a more secluded existence.  Perhaps on-line is too much for them.  If they cry to the moderators all that does is display that they are not capable of standing up for themselves. 



Never said they should - dark was the one who brought up moderators.  See that's the attitude most bullies have - pick on the weak, those not strong enough to stand up for themselves... good point... and yes others try to run them out... now where is the freedom in that?  Who is anyone to say take my crap you weakling or leave?

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:02:10 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		You made my point quite nicely - the drama mongers should follow you advice - not everyone is like you and you have a choice - read it, don't read it no one is forcing you.  BTW i never personally attacked anyone (show me where if i did) i was simply stating my opinion as is my right in a thread i created - if my ideas bother you so much - why read them - you are free to read elsewhere.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:04:19 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I believe I already said that and covered all those bases. Yanno......sharp sticks and all that.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/14/2007 12:05:34 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:14:24 PM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		I agree in principle that it is the job of moderators to police the forums. However moderators, like police, can't be everywhre at all times. Eleven has got a life to tend to away from moderating a -free- forum.

I don't expect everyone, or even anyone, else to have a code of ethics when it comes to posting on the web. The one I shared earlier in this thread is my code, it applies to me and me alone... unless someone else wants to adopt it, then it becomes their code, and their version applies to them and themselves alone. I presented it here simply as a statement of my own experience, and if anyone else feels that adopting a similar behavior they are more than welcome to, since after all, the only person you can make adopt one is yourself.

I will make a statement, with all the civility called for in my personal code I mentioned earlier in this thread, that I take offense at someone's behavor to give them a chance to apologise and/or rephrase themselves if their intent was otherwise. It's an immediate and low-grade step to restoring civility on a board without bothering a moderator to step in.

I have on occasion had to apologise for my own miscommunication, so I appreciate the opportunity that a well phrased and polite notification that I'm an @$$hole. I do not tear in to somene calling them names or make judgements of their character, as I do not want to be treated as such myself.

When I have had the occasion to say something, the response to me is usually that they did indeed intend another interpretation without offense, apologies are shared, and the conversation continues without ill will incurred.

If it's a problem beyond that I simply drop the thread, or ignore the person I find offensive until the moderator has the opportunity to do something unspeakable to them.

$0.02,

Dauric.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:31:46 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

Now you assume to tell me what i am saying or what i exude, speak for yourself not me.  Let others discern for themselves, not your misinterpretations of what i say and mean. 

Did not assume.  You said it.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
- than i feel rather sorry for you.



quote:

Yes people can see through what is written, never said they couldn't so don't ass-u-me i did. 

Again, never assumed you didn't.  I simply stated I respect people to be able to see through words. So do not make it seem I was refering anything to you.
You try to be very good at that with many people.
If I am refering to you, you will know it because I would be direct(see above)
But then, me stating that, makes me no better than you, pulling up people for what you see - does it?
But that is just my personal opinion.  Does not mean I am correct.
 
quote:

i may point out whatever i want to point out - use your own freedom of speech to ignore it or not read it if it offends you.
I do and I will.
 
quote:

Trust the moderators all you want - they don't generally step in till things get really abusive - the "clique" is far to  clever as to make it that obvious. 
That is because they (mods) remain unbiased.
If one sees something far to clever to be obvious - then one only see what they do themselves.
 
Peace and Rapture
 



Generally if i say "you" - meaing in general - i don't respond to a specific poster - you did. Not my fault i thought you meant me if you didn't - you should be more specific in who you are addressing.

i used the word "sorry for" in reference to you - so don't twist my words like i said it in reference to the ones being attacked by the drama mongers.  You enjoy twisting words and concepts.

You cannot know what i "exude" - or what my motivations are. You yourself are coming from a biased opinion and to defend your position you read what you want into what i am truly saying. It is becoming tedious.   i suggest go back and read the original op - i asked for constructive ideas, i pointed out things i observed here in CM. If you want to defend a bullies right to be that way fine - maybe you should start your own thread - Bullies Unite - Let's Bash All the Weaklings on CM..... let me know how it goes - i won't be there reading it or responding. 


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:35:58 PM   
swtnsparkling


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

I don't think moderators should constantly step in and referee spats among posters.  This is not an elementary school playground. 


When ever I have seen a moderator step in and say things like:
Settle down children
or
It's rare that I have to ask people twice  act like adults.

it has been primarly the same group of people being addressed

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:38:30 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dauric

I don't expect everyone, or even anyone, else to have a code of ethics when it comes to posting on the web. 


i agree it would be rather foolish to think it possible.  As much as they have a right to go around ane be the drama thread moderators it is equally my right to say - hey you're being a hypocrit when you say you can't stand drama but are so willing to become a part of it - in the name of hating it.... utter nonesense - and then to say free speech on top of it *rolls eyes*  If they really believed in free speech they would enter a drama thread, see it's something they do not enjoy or want to contribute to and leave - the poster of the drama thread is entitled to free speech as well - or is that point forgotten to some who have posted in this thread?

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:39:42 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

quote:

I don't think moderators should constantly step in and referee spats among posters.  This is not an elementary school playground. 


When ever I have seen a moderator step in and say things like:
Settle down children
or
It's rare that I have to ask people twice  act like adults.

it has been primarly the same group of people being addressed


And a sad commentary it is on those people

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to swtnsparkling)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:45:07 PM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

quote:

I don't think moderators should constantly step in and referee spats among posters.  This is not an elementary school playground. 


When ever I have seen a moderator step in and say things like:
Settle down children
or
It's rare that I have to ask people twice  act like adults.

it has been primarly the same group of people being addressed


And here lies the central point of the OP and the entire thread, what to do constructively about the same group over and over.

My answer: In general, lead by example, there's not a lot else that you can do. On rare occasion, register your displeasure with them in the thread.. -politely-. Maintan the civility that you would at any other time. In many cases it's a matter of misunderstanding, and a simple, civil, conversation can set the matter straight and it will be over with.

If they continue to abuse the forum after you have made every civilized attempt, ignore them and take vicarious pleasure in what he moderators do with their corpses later.

$0.02,

Dauric.

(in reply to swtnsparkling)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:45:20 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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From: UK
Status: offline
There is no defense of bullies.
But by singling individuals or those you feel are 'cliques' out - you simply become the bully yourself.
And thus the cycle is perpetuated.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:48:09 PM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

But by singling individuals or those you feel are 'cliques' out - you simply become the bully yourself.
And thus the cycle is perpetuated.


repetition is not working in this case


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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:50:26 PM   
velvetears


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Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

There is no defense of bullies.
But by singling individuals or those you feel are 'cliques' out - you simply become the bully yourself.
And thus the cycle is perpetuated.
 
Peace and Rapture


No, what i am doing, or trying to do, is bring awareness to the situation. How it develops after i said my piece is how it develops.  Being a bully would be following this clique around (like they do certain other people)  and starting up with them each time they engaged in that behavior - i wouldn't waste my time. 

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:51:21 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well the OP I believe wanted constructive ideas on how to deal with people who get into drama and act in ways they find less than conducive to helping people on the forums.

Considering I've had people tell me that what *I* do sometimes is not conducive to the forums, I asked the OP what constructive ideas she had for me.

She said she doesn't consider me to be one of those people.  The point being- all of those clique types out there don't consider themselves to be one of those people either, or if they do, they don't see it as a problem or anything to change.

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(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:53:19 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

But by singling individuals or those you feel are 'cliques' out - you simply become the bully yourself.
And thus the cycle is perpetuated.


repetition is not working in this case



True to form katy true to form - i applaud you for consistency

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:53:53 PM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

There is no defense of bullies.
But by singling individuals or those you feel are 'cliques' out - you simply become the bully yourself.
And thus the cycle is perpetuated.
 
Peace and Rapture



It depnds on how you approach it.

I've been suprised by those I thought were bullies, when I informed them that their posts had an air of personal attack to them, in a civil way; they looked back at what they had written and apologised for the misunderstanding. The rest of the discussion, and every other discussion with them after went fine.

I'll agree that you must avoid becoming an ass yourself, but that is my point throuought: Be Civilized.

$0.02,

Dauric. 

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:56:26 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		In many circumstances the   'cliques'   are the bullies

I don't think the OP has become a bully simply because
she asked for constructive ideas on how to possibly get those that Do indeed
speak about "oh the drama" yet then, themselves keep that drama alive.


_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:58:06 PM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well the OP I believe wanted constructive ideas on how to deal with people who get into drama and act in ways they find less than conducive to helping people on the forums.

Considering I've had people tell me that what *I* do sometimes is not conducive to the forums, I asked the OP what constructive ideas she had for me.

She said she doesn't consider me to be one of those people.  The point being- all of those clique types out there don't consider themselves to be one of those people either, or if they do, they don't see it as a problem or anything to change.


Of course we so rarely get deserved praise, but complaints come all the time. It's nothing anyone should take personaly, it's just one of those 'Human things' that happens.

Personally I've always found you to be one of the best, and most contributing, posters in any thread LuckyAlbatross.

$0.02,

Dauric.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 12:58:40 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well the OP I believe wanted constructive ideas on how to deal with people who get into drama and act in ways they find less than conducive to helping people on the forums.

Considering I've had people tell me that what *I* do sometimes is not conducive to the forums, I asked the OP what constructive ideas she had for me.

She said she doesn't consider me to be one of those people.  The point being- all of those clique types out there don't consider themselves to be one of those people either, or if they do, they don't see it as a problem or anything to change.


Quite true LA.  There is a difference in people not being happy with what they heard someone say to them in a particular thread and taking offense. This is unfortunate when it happens, and in those cases i agree growing a thicker skin is in order.  i have cringed myself at some of the repsonses but i acknowlege the posters right to present it as they see fit - harsh, sympathetic, etc - whatever their style is.  That is not at all what i am taling aout when i talk about this "clique" - they hound certain posters - follow them and while on the one hand spout how much they hate the drama - they must revel in it to be so consistent as to follow them around. 

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 1:00:14 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

In many circumstances the   'cliques'   are the bullies

I don't think the OP has become a bully simply because
she asked for constructive ideas on how to possibly get those that Do indeed
speak about "oh the drama" yet then, themselves keep that drama alive.



So, how is this thread and the OP and the supporters of it any different, except in topic and style?


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to swtnsparkling)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Constructive Ideas Needed - 5/14/2007 1:01:36 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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From: UK
Status: offline
Velvet, I do understand your concept, I just do not believe it works, nor that is any different from what the witch hunts are doing.
 
I agree with Dauric and lead by example.
There isn't a need to bring awareness to any given situation because people can see bullies for themselves.  Being a part of a clique or following bullies around and agreeing with them isn't the only form of bullying.  Picking out someone specifically, or cliques is a form of witch hunt in itself - just by another individual or clique.  That makes one no better than that which you are trying to make others aware of.  Respect and trust that others are open and aware regardless.
Humans are violent and animalistic.
They are also beautiful and sentient.
And in general, they can see past hate.
Trust others, as you can trust yourself.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 100
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