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"Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 8:57:20 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		That's what's going around on the internet now about that pos immigration bill that Bush and Kennedy are trying to sneak through.
And the news gets worse!
Evidently Bush is trying to insert language into this piece of garbage bill that would be the preliminary language to that *"North American Union"* that him and his rich buddies want! (World Net Daily)
So, everyone is encouraged to fly their flags *upside down* all week in protest to this underhanded move by Bush
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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:06:17 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline 		I fly mine upside down all the time. So, should I turn it right side up? I am, like, sooo confused. Maybe I should just burn it. That's always fun.

Bob

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(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:10:41 PM   
ToysAndTies


Posts: 124
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		Appropriate.  We've been in distress a few years now.  

(in reply to DesertRat)
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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:13:39 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		While i respect your right to feel this is appropriate, i personally would not do this because i feel it is disrespectful to our Flag. *Thats just my humble opinion

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(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:17:50 PM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I have two issues with this thread. The first is disrespecting Old Glory because you disagree with the policy of the President is not only inappropriate but shameful, embarrasing, and disgraceful.  Old Glory is not a symbol of the President. it is a symbol of this country, of the thousands who have died for the freedoms you hold dear. You should be ashamed for even suggesting that.
My other issue is, world a North American Union be so bad? Look at the EU, and the success it's had in creating a stable continent-wide economy, I know Mexico and Canada would both benefit greatly from a union, and I believe so would the US.  And who knows it might lead to a strong Western Hemishphere Union eventually if Central and South America can be incorporated....Just because Bush wants something doesnt mean it's bad.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:18:28 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

While i respect your right to feel this is appropriate, i personally would not do this because i feel it is disrespectful to our Flag. *Thats just my humble opinion



          It's easy to have that immediate reaction to such a display.  It is not a disrespect to the Flag.  It is a symbol of distress or a warning that things are not right.  A flag flown at night, without illumination sends the same message.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:22:27 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

disrespecting Old Glory because you disagree with the policy of the President is not only inappropriate but shameful, embarrasing, and disgraceful.  Old Glory is not a symbol of the President. it is a symbol of this country, of the thousands who have died for the freedoms you hold dear. You should be ashamed for even suggesting that.


I agree.

_____________________________

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:24:48 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

While i respect your right to feel this is appropriate, i personally would not do this because i feel it is disrespectful to our Flag. *Thats just my humble opinion



         It's easy to have that immediate reaction to such a display.  It is not a disrespect to the Flag.  It is a symbol of distress or a warning that things are not right.  A flag flown at night, without illumination sends the same message.

i am aware of this...and don't see the connection...my apologizes.


_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:26:15 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with Navy as well.  I support civil disobedience and protesting, but for me that just would be damaging a symbol which I would not personally damage at this point in time and which won't serve the purpose I want it to serve

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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:26:37 PM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

        It's easy to have that immediate reaction to such a display.  It is not a disrespect to the Flag.  It is a symbol of distress or a warning that things are not right.  A flag flown at night, without illumination sends the same message.



While that is true, when flown upside down or without illumination when there is NO distress is disrepecting the flag.  Using the Flag as a political statement is disrespecting it.  by Distress it means when someone's life is in Jepardy, or some other equally serious situation at the LOCATION OF THE FLAG. 
What he is proposing is using Old Glory as a political tool, which is disrepsectful and shameful

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:36:30 PM   
fadedlace


Posts: 137
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Louisiana
Status: offline 		This is from the Grand Teton Boy Scout (very specific) regulations for the U.S. Flag, taken from their website.  It mirrors many other U.S. Flag regulations in use, which stress the phrase "dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life and property."
 
http://www.grandtetoncouncil.org/index.cfm?pageid=1494
 
I won't fly my flag upside down as a simple protest gesture.  I feel it's disrespectful.
 
======
 
"Sec. 4.
That no disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America -- the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.


  • The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. "

    (in reply to popeye1250)
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    RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:36:47 PM   
    TheHeretic


    Posts: 19100
    Joined: 3/25/2007
    From: California, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

           It's easy to have that immediate reaction to such a display.  It is not a disrespect to the Flag.  It is a symbol of distress or a warning that things are not right.  A flag flown at night, without illumination sends the same message.



    While that is true, when flown upside down or without illumination when there is NO distress is disrepecting the flag.  Using the Flag as a political statement is disrespecting it.  by Distress it means when someone's life is in Jepardy, or some other equally serious situation at the LOCATION OF THE FLAG. 
    What he is proposing is using Old Glory as a political tool, which is disrepsectful and shameful



           I guess this would come down to a battle of opinion over what is, and isn't valid and appropriate political speech.  It seems to me that most uses of Old Glory these days are pretty political.

         Popeye:  I think you're screwed on this one.  Hope for a quick death in Polls and Random Stupidity.

         I like the idea.  I'm also one of those crazy people who supports both NOT criminalizing flag burning AND local ordinances that set the penalty at $25 for punching somebody who does it in the nose.

    _____________________________

    If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
    That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


    (in reply to NavyDDG54)
    Profile   Post #: 12
    RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:38:37 PM   
    popeye1250


    Posts: 18104
    Joined: 1/27/2006
    From: New Hampshire
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

           It's easy to have that immediate reaction to such a display.  It is not a disrespect to the Flag.  It is a symbol of distress or a warning that things are not right.  A flag flown at night, without illumination sends the same message.



    While that is true, when flown upside down or without illumination when there is NO distress is disrepecting the flag.  Using the Flag as a political statement is disrespecting it.  by Distress it means when someone's life is in Jepardy, or some other equally serious situation at the LOCATION OF THE FLAG. 
    What he is proposing is using Old Glory as a political tool, which is disrepsectful and shameful


    Navy, there IS distress in the land!
    Do you want your country to be part of the North American Union with Canada and Mexico and we all meld into one big country with no "U.S. Constitution"?
    My flag will be flown UPSIDE DOWN to send a message to those BASTARDS in Washington who would even THINK of such a TREASONOUS idea!
    Bush and his rich buddies want to kill the middle class and make themselves even richer and this will do it!
    They already screwed over the working class in this country, didn't they?

    (in reply to NavyDDG54)
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    RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:43:31 PM   
    NavyDDG54


    Posts: 203
    Joined: 1/10/2005
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: fadedlace

    That no disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America -- the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing.



    1. Actually there is one instance when the US flay may be dipped, when two naval vessels at sea encounter one another, and the foreign vessel dips her flag to the American vessel, The American vessel may dip her flag in recognition of the honor bestowed.

      I cant remember which Naval publication I read that in

      (in reply to fadedlace)
      Profile   Post #: 14
      RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:46:25 PM   
      LuckyAlbatross


      Posts: 19224
      Joined: 10/25/2005
      Status: offline       		It's also flown below the UN flag.

      _____________________________

      Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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      (in reply to NavyDDG54)
      Profile   Post #: 15
      RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:47:10 PM   
      fadedlace


      Posts: 137
      Joined: 5/17/2005
      From: Louisiana
      Status: offline       		You could well be correct; I didn't look at the Navy regs and no longer have any Navy veterans I could call and ask...

      (in reply to NavyDDG54)
      Profile   Post #: 16
      RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:47:50 PM   
      NavyDDG54


      Posts: 203
      Joined: 1/10/2005
      Status: offline
      quote:

      ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Navy, there IS distress in the land!
      Do you want your country to be part of the North American Union with Canada and Mexico and we all meld into one big country with no "U.S. Constitution"?
      My flag will be flown UPSIDE DOWN to send a message to those BASTARDS in Washington who would even THINK of such a TREASONOUS idea!
      Bush and his rich buddies want to kill the middle class and make themselves even richer and this will do it!
      They already screwed over the working class in this country, didn't they?


      You are using Old Glory to make a POLITICAL STATEMENT. there is NO IMMENENT DAGER TO LIFE OR PROPERTY. 
      And actually with unemployment down, stock market at an all time high, and more middle class citizens becoming millionares, I dont see them getting screwed at all.

      And look at the EU each country retained it's own governments, it's just an ALLIANCE like NATO.

      (in reply to popeye1250)
      Profile   Post #: 17
      RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:49:21 PM   
      mistoferin


      Posts: 8284
      Joined: 10/27/2004
      Status: offline       		 http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4/chapter1_.html

      CHAPTER 1--THE FLAG

      Sec. 8. Respect for flag

         No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of
      America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing.
      Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags
      are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
         (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except
      as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or
      property.
         (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the
      ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
         (c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but
      always aloft and free.
         (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or
      drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but
      always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always
      arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red
      below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front
      of the platform, and for decoration in general.
         (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in
      such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in
      any way.
         (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
         (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of
      it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design,
      picture, or drawing of any nature.
         (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving,
      holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
         (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any
      manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as
      cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed
      on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use
      and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or
      halyard from which the flag is flown.
         (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic
      uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military
      personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.
      The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living
      thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on
      the left lapel near the heart.
         (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a
      fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way,
      preferably by burning.


      _____________________________

      Peace and light,
      ~erin~

      There are no victims here...only volunteers.

      When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

      "I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

      (in reply to popeye1250)
      Profile   Post #: 18
      RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:50:17 PM   
      TheHeretic


      Posts: 19100
      Joined: 3/25/2007
      From: California, USA
      Status: offline       		     How about a rule to keep the flames down.  Only people who actually own a US flag that regularly flies from their home can object to this.

      _____________________________

      If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
      That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


      (in reply to popeye1250)
      Profile   Post #: 19
      RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/20/2007 9:50:31 PM   
      NavyDDG54


      Posts: 203
      Joined: 1/10/2005
      Status: offline
      quote:

      ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

      It's also flown below the UN flag.


      Not on US Soil, on US soil NOTHING is flown above Old Glory, if anything the UN flag is on a seperate pole

      (in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
      Profile   Post #: 20
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