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RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 11:52:29 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Two things:

One. So by your logic (using the light example) a person in a car, waiting at a red light should just drive on through because they don't see anyother cars coming? How far would that fly to an officer watching this and pulling you over?

Two. In reference to your statement below:

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
And many say faith is illogical
Exactly.

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RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 11:57:01 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
People make promises and give their word many a time and have to break them for their own safety - what about the slave who committs to a master and vows to obey, be his forever etc etc and he snaps one day and tries to kill her - would you argue she should stay because she made a M/s vow?  Personally i would use common sense and save my life. 


I'm not sure where you might have gotten the impression that I would encourage such a woman to stay in a situation such as that. Of course the common sense thing to do would be to leave such a situation. But by your logic, a justifiable action on her part after that fact, an action that may garner her some support, would be to let another man stick his dick in her. After all, her "Master" would deserve it right?

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 11:57:08 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Intelligent opinions (which is what I am assuming you are stating you make for yourself) are not based on logos not mythos.

Faith is not an intelligent opinion, it is a belief, ie a feeling, and is a part of mythos. (And just to be clear, the Greeks do not knock the concept of mythos, it is just as valid as logos... it is just different from logos.)

You can not use faith as an example of logic.  It is does not come from a position of logos, but mythos... which is what I had said previously.

IE: You would not want to tap into mythos to fix your carborator or to balance the national budget.   Conversely, you would not apply logos to enjoy a symphony or experience a moment of transcindental faith.

< Message edited by puella -- 5/24/2007 11:58:26 AM >

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RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:01:46 PM   
velvetears


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Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Two things:

One. So by your logic (using the light example) a person in a car, waiting at a red light should just drive on through because they don't see anyother cars coming? How far would that fly to an officer watching this and pulling you over?

Two. In reference to your statement below:

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
And many say faith is illogical
Exactly.


Actually in the example i used, the people waiting for the green light were standing not in cars lol.  But cops do give jay walking tickets - i almost got one myself in CA - i am from ny and if you waited for green lights you would never get anywhere walking lol. 

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:04:45 PM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I probably shouldn't be hopping in here because I have not read the thread, just this last bit of exchange.

Religion and mystical beliefs are not the same as logic... look to the Greeks, you have Mythos and Logos, both equally important but very different ways of approaching truth, and each really only applicable to certain truths... go love your Plato for a while.

The idea of throwing religious beliefs (mythos)  into a debate about logically formed opinions (logos) is sort of void from the outset.


If you read the whole thread you would see i was using it as an example of how logic simply cannot validate everything, some beliefs go beyond logic


If she reads the whole thread she will find that what you are doing is giving examples of scenarios of infidelity that can be rationalized and justified. Considering her recent posts regarding her stance on infidelity on another thread I highly doubt that she would be in your defense.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:06:04 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
People make promises and give their word many a time and have to break them for their own safety - what about the slave who committs to a master and vows to obey, be his forever etc etc and he snaps one day and tries to kill her - would you argue she should stay because she made a M/s vow?  Personally i would use common sense and save my life. 


I'm not sure where you might have gotten the impression that I would encourage such a woman to stay in a situation such as that. Of course the common sense thing to do would be to leave such a situation. But by your logic, a justifiable action on her part after that fact, an action that may garner her some support, would be to let another man stick his dick in her. After all, her "Master" would deserve it right?


erin you are stuck on assuming i said the support should be using sex.... i tried to explain several times i was misinterpreted and explain yself - i am done trying - you will believe what you want. 

i used the example of the Master slave situation above to illustrate that sometimes people, for their own well being and safety need to break their word.  Never implied you encouraged it - your becoming defensive with me and there's no reason - i am not attacking you just trying to explain someting to you, and everyone, where i was misunderstood. 

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:06:42 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Velvet is right!!....I would freely cheat on a wife who gained weight or maybe lost an eye or a limb to cancer.  It would be simply too gross to fuck them any longer....They owe me an apology for abusing me with their horrid appearance......I think most will share in this opinion.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:08:03 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well first you were trying real hard to justify the notion that "some people deserve to be cheated on"

Now you're trying to justify "sometimes you need to break your word."

You can't switch off on what statements you're justifying mid-argument.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:08:42 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		domiguy....you are incorrigible!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:09:31 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

domiguy....you are incorrigible!


I have a feeling he crosses the street against the light...


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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:10:11 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If she reads the whole thread she will find that what you are doing is giving examples of scenarios of infidelity that can be rationalized and justified. Considering her recent posts regarding her stance on infidelity on another thread I highly doubt that she would be in your defense.


i don't need anyone "in my defense" erin.  i posted an OPINION, sorry it offended you....

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:11:37 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		It didn't offend me velvet...I just don't agree with it. You seem to use that pat answer on a lot of threads. Sorry, but it doesn't wash.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:16:29 PM   
LightHeartedMaam


Posts: 296
Joined: 5/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Yet again you show yourself as someone as familiar to logic as fish are to riding bicycles.

One does wonder at why you have SUCH a vested interest in defending cheating, even at the expense of logic (Not just others but your own, as your 'argument' even fell foul of your own example!). Wouldn't be guilt would it and trying to avoid the realisation that your past actions are unjustifiable? I can think of no other reason that someone would be so GROUNDLESSLY and illogicaly adamant!



Thanks for the insults - i don't feel the need to reply in kind. i could turn around what you say and ask you the same question. Just because you don't agree with my reasoning doesn't make it illogical - i personally think you have totally misunderstood my pov but i don't really care to try to correct it... so post away, insult, goad, etc... doesn't really matter. Sorry my OPINION pushed such a hot button for you.


velvetears,

I'm supposing those that are venting their own frustrations is because they are probably divorced for the up-teenth time and probably for the same reasons and just haven't realized  they were to common denominator.

These same males would probably have no problem with their SO being with another woman getting the intimacy they are incapable of giving~ so long as they can "watch".

This whole thread has gone down the tubes.  Thanks to those who had something intelligent to contribute and I hope those who felt the need to be sarcastic and defensive find their heart's desire.

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:19:13 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

It didn't offend me velvet...I just don't agree with it. You seem to use that pat answer on a lot of threads. Sorry, but it doesn't wash.


It's one matter to disagree with velvet's opinion...I think it is possibly against TOS to attack her personal hygiene or lack thereof..."It puts the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again."

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:20:50 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well first you were trying real hard to justify the notion that "some people deserve to be cheated on"

Now you're trying to justify "sometimes you need to break your word."

You can't switch off on what statements you're justifying mid-argument.


i believe my origional op said - had it coming, but that's beside the point. 

Well generally it wouldn't be cheating unless a word (or vow) was given so the two tied in together - they aren't exactly the same.  As i am sure you uinderstand i was trying to point out - sometimes you have to put yourself first, sometimes the actions of others makes all committments null and void.  If i draw up a contract with someone to do work for me and they decide to put in extras that were not agreed upon in the contract - by law i don't have to pay them, even if verbally agreed upon - it is ethical to do this - absolutely not, but legally the person doesn't have a leg to stand on.  Marriages are contracts, the abuse imo makes it null and void.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:28:59 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Velvet is right!!....I would freely cheat on a wife who gained weight or maybe lost an eye or a limb to cancer.  It would be simply too gross to fuck them any longer....They owe me an apology for abusing me with their horrid appearance......I think most will share in this opinion.


Sad thing is, this probably happens all the time. i know a few examples myself of spouses leaving because the other became sick with cancer and they couldn't deal with it. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:30:46 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		I wonder, velvet, how you would feel if you were to walk in on your SO with another all your SO said to you was "You had it coming." Would you really just turn the other cheek and say, "Ya know, you're right. I did have it coming to me."

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:33:47 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam
velvetears,

I'm supposing those that are venting their own frustrations is because they are probably divorced for the up-teenth time and probably for the same reasons and just haven't realized  they were to common denominator.

These same males would probably have no problem with their SO being with another woman getting the intimacy they are incapable of giving~ so long as they can "watch".

This whole thread has gone down the tubes.  Thanks to those who had something intelligent to contribute and I hope those who felt the need to be sarcastic and defensive find their heart's desire.


i am sorry your thread got off track.  i contributed to it by trying to correct what i felt was a misunderstanding of what i meant to say.
i am done responding and hope it can get back on focus. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:34:38 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

velvetears

i believe my origional op said - had it coming, but that's beside the point. 

.  As i am sure you uinderstand i was trying to point out - sometimes you have to put yourself first, sometimes the actions of others makes all committments null and void.  If i draw up a contract with someone to do work for me and they decide to put in extras that were not agreed upon in the contract - by law i don't have to pay them, even if verbally agreed upon - it is ethical to do this - absolutely not, but legally the person doesn't have a leg to stand on.  Marriages are contracts, the abuse imo makes it null and void.


Exactly. Now back to my argument about weight....I don't mean to sound insensitive...But what if my beautiful bride suddenly develops a problem regarding Cortisol....Waht would I do?.....Pay for the Relacore?...I don't think so!!!  She has broken a vow of external beauty which I place above all else!  Hmmmm...What if as she ages she gets those lines that some women seem to acquire...You know the ones that start around the mouth and seem to go straight into the lips....When she puckers up it's like you are kissing an asshole....No thank you!!! You have betrayed yet again my trust by aging in such a disgusting manner....You can find me on the next bus to "Someoneelsespussyville"

Velvet is right!!!  You are all just lack the ability to think outside the box and easily into someone elses.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/24/2007 12:35:08 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: The Need to Know - 5/24/2007 12:39:31 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Velvet is right!!....I would freely cheat on a wife who gained weight or maybe lost an eye or a limb to cancer.  It would be simply too gross to fuck them any longer....They owe me an apology for abusing me with their horrid appearance......I think most will share in this opinion.


Sad thing is, this probably happens all the time. i know a few examples myself of spouses leaving because the other became sick with cancer and they couldn't deal with it. 


And justifiably so....In all of my relationships I say I will stay through sickness* and health.

*Unless they cough up a lot of crud or the illness goes on for more than a few days.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/24/2007 12:45:03 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 140
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