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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/6/2005 1:49:22 PM

Lordandmaster

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Those are very good examples, but they don't support Pantera's argument that health care is best handled without government involvement. Keeping health insurance private doesn't do anything to lower malpractice-insurance rates.

My question is why Pantera thinks we have to get government out of health care when government isn't in health care in the first place.

At the risk of prolonging an obviously fruitless discussion--Pantera evidently believes that our health-care system is the best in the world, but offers no evidence to support this claim, nor in fact any argument in favor of the status quo--I do have a few questions.

WHY is medicine "a service that should be paid for"? Are highways a service that should be paid for? How about the police? Fire Department? Sanitation? National defense? What makes health care any different? And why can't medicine be "paid for" in the same way that the Fire Department and everything else is paid for?

Besides, I said national health insurance. NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE. Not socialized medicine, not free medicine, not anything else that Pantera may happen to have heard about from Cuba. I mean a system like the one we have, with copays, coverage maximums, and so on, except the insurer is the federal government, and every U.S. citizen is automatically a policy-holder.

Lam

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/7/2005 5:32:53 AM

pantera

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Let's add all the stupid requirements that are asked of the insurance companies ... for instance:

*you HAVE TO offer pregnancy coverage- very useful for a 50 YO female or a single male-

*you HAVE TO offer mental health/ drug rehab coverage- a couple of us could use it, but it should be VERY optional-

Makes a lot of sense... like everything government does!!!

The private sector does pretty much EVERYTHING better than government- actually, government pretty much sucks at just about everything they do (it's only natural people- economic laws) why put our health in their hands???

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/7/2005 9:27:04 AM

Lordandmaster

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That's one of those right-wing mantras that people think they can still offer up without any documentation whatsoever. The private sector doesn't handle national security better than the government. We've been trying that in our New War, and the results have been disastrous.

Pantera, the private sector has absolutely fucked up health insurance. Considering that we're already at or near the bottom among industrialized nations in almost every statistical category--and considering that health-insurance costs are ruining companies like Ford and GM--how exactly could the government do any WORSE?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pantera

The private sector does pretty much EVERYTHING better than government

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/8/2005 6:25:09 AM

pantera

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I'm so tired of those little phrases myself

*right-wing mantra*

ok Mr. Big government- I gave you examples and you didn't- so go right ahead and start making your case- so far you sound pretty weak- and naive- you obviously have no clue what government control can do to a country...and to that freedom you don't even realise you have.

if everybody shared your way of thinking, this would be a socialist nation- capitalism and freedom are endangered species right now and need protection- more government is not the answer....

Why do you think "government" should "give" you stuff? you have no right to anybody's time or protperty without paying for it- why do you think it's ok for government to take other people's property (at gun point shall I add) and give it to you? and since y'all like
the word: does that seem "fair" to you? what is it that makes you think you are unable to provide, including healthcare, for you and your family?

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/8/2005 6:27:59 AM

pantera

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this is just great!!!!

my daughter (she's 6) was reading the message I just wrote as I typed it and all of a sudden, without me asking her opinion (or even realising that she was actually reading) she said:

THAT"S LIKE STEALING!!!!

and she's right - my baby is so smart!!!!

enough said people

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/8/2005 8:31:06 AM

onceburned

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pantera
Why do you think "government" should "give" you stuff? you have no right to anybody's time or protperty without paying for it- why do you think it's ok for government to take other people's property (at gun point shall I add) and give it to you?

You forgot to ask if he had stopped beating his wife yet.

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/8/2005 9:47:11 AM

pantera

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yeah... really... did you stop beating your wife yet boy!!!!! lol!!!!

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/8/2005 10:32:00 AM

Lordandmaster

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Obviously you didn't understand what onceburned meant. This is tiresome. I'm finished with this thread.

Ask your daughter whether it's "stealing" to take the bus to school.

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/9/2005 5:07:39 AM

pantera

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Obviously you didn't understand what onceburned meant. This is tiresome. I'm finished with this thread.

Ask your daughter whether it's "stealing" to take the bus to school.

yes I know what she meant- you're the one that didn't get my "humor" - I don't blame you for that though-

and about the bus- no, it's not stealing- I pay a lot in property taxes, and so does pretty much everybody that goes to her school, since there is not one apartment complex close by (side note: hers is a school of excellence- )

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/9/2005 5:54:29 AM

kisshou

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Pantera, you answered your own question about why the government should 'give' you stuff. (because you pay taxes)

"Florida KidCare is our state’s children’s health insurance program for uninsured children under age 19." This was to help solve the problem of so many parents who worked in jobs that did not offer insurance.

As for a Florida public school being a "school of excellence", that is the most humorous statement in this entire thread.

"Elementary Schools Are the Nation's Largest: The average size of a Florida elementary school is 49% higher than the national average. With an average of 655 students per school, Florida is the largest state in the nation in the average size of its elementary schools. ESR

High Schools Are the Nation's Largest: The average size of a Florida high school is 101% higher than the national average. With an average of 1514 students per school, Florida is the largest state in the nation in the average size of its high schools. ESR

Class Sizes Are Among the Largest in the Nation: With an average of 23 students per class, Florida has the 6th largest average elementary school class size in the nation. EWQ

Public School Spending Is Among the Worst in the Nation: Florida ranks 7th worst in the country in the total taxable resources spent on public education. Education spending by the State of Florida and its localities amounts to just 3.3% of its gross state product. NRE and BEA

Public School Spending Is Among the Worst in the Nation: Florida ranks near the bottom of all states--46th of 50 states--in per pupil spending on public education. ESR

Public School Spending Has Declined: Public education spending per pupil has declined in Florida. Since 1990, per pupil spending in constant dollars has declined by 8%. DEF, NRE and ESR

Public School Revenue Raised Is Among the Worst In Nation: Florida ranks near the bottom of all states--48th out of 50--in the per capita revenue raised for public education. ESR

Student/Teacher Ratio Is Among the Highest in the Nation: Florida ranks near the bottom (43 of 50) in the number of students for each teacher. ESR

Student/Teacher Ratio Is Getting Worse: The number of students for every teacher is getting larger in Florida and, as a result, students are getting less individual attention. The number of students per public school teacher has increased by 8% since 1988. ESR and DEF

Schools Need Major Repairs: Fifty-seven percent (57%) of Florida's schools have at least one inadequate building feature (e.g., roofs, plumbing, electric wiring), and 80% have at least one unsatisfactory environmental condition (e.g., poor air quality, poor heating, too much noise). ASC

Parents Need to Be More Involved: Parents in Florida need to be more involved in their children's education. In Florida, 55% of 8th grade students are in schools where a lack of parental involvement is reported to be a problem. EWQ"

I could go on and on and on with more facts.

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/10/2005 7:24:16 AM

pantera

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Education, healthcare, the mail, among other things are not legitimate functions of government- the smaller, the better-

My experience and my logic tell me that the more pure the capitalism, the better-

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/10/2005 1:31:55 PM

Lordandmaster

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I thought you just said having your daughter take the bus to school is OK because you pay taxes for it. Now you're saying that education is not a legitimate "function" of government. What's your proposal: all education should be private and mommies should drive their kids to school every morning?

And you want to privatize the mail? Are you serious? I guess you've never heard of terrorism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pantera

Education, healthcare, the mail, among other things are not legitimate functions of government- the smaller, the better-

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RE: Yet another political rant... - 6/13/2005 6:28:34 AM

pantera

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I thought you just said having your daughter take the bus to school is OK because you pay taxes for it. Now you're saying that education is not a legitimate "function" of government. What's your proposal: all education should be private and mommies should drive their kids to school every morning?

And you want to privatize the mail? Are you serious? I guess you've never heard of terrorism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pantera

Education, healthcare, the mail, among other things are not legitimate functions of government- the smaller, the better-

I take my daughter to public school because I am not religious and non-sectarean schools here are about 12k a year...that's tuition only- no uniforms, transportation, books or lunch - so, instead of paying that much every year I bought a nice home in a nice area, with a nice school. I volunteer in her school at least once a week and actually care for what's going on with her at school.... all these plus the fact that she's my little genious girl should make up for the fact that she's going to public school-

and yes... I pay taxes- and she rides the bus (back from school mainly... I usually take her to school)

so, you think that the private sector is unable to do things better than government? have you had to renew your driver's lisence lately?