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Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 6:21:44 PM

Trampler

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Earlier I noticed a post on hard limits, about how a sub was threatened with her hard limits as punishment. It started me thinking anout the psyche, in regard to those limits. My thing is: A hard limit is the same as a deal breaker, that the person would rather walk out the door then cross that limit. Like say I had a male sub whose biggest hard limit is forced bi, now I would prefer having a sub that is bi, because it's hot as hell. BUT also knowing how alot of guys feel about homosexuality, even if I did consider hard limits to just be boundaries to break, I would be very reluctuant to break this one. For fear that activity would damage the psyche of my sub. What are your thoughts on this matter?

Post #: 1

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 6:23:36 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Limits for me are things which would go against my sense of self, and prevent me from being a healthy fulfilled person.

No reason why that should be only physical things.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Trampler)

Post #: 2

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 6:30:14 PM

Masque66

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Joined: 5/4/2007
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It depends on the limits, and why those limits are in place. At one point in many subs' life simply being tied up would have been considered a hard limit. If a sub had anal play as a limit I'd want to know why. If the reason was medical, of course I wouldn't deal with it. But if she just 'thinks its gross' I'd still respect it, but hope that over time I could gradually wear away at it and get her to give it a try. Many limits are unbreakable, but sometimes all it takes is a little (or lot) of encouragement to push through.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 6:38:18 PM

This1s4you

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Joined: 5/23/2007
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Boy I guess we are very different. For us being Master/Mistress means that we look for "slaves" and as such while we will decide what is good for them if we allow them to choose and if they don't have faith in our good intentions then they are the ones in control and that is not what slavery is about, is it?

(in reply to Trampler)

Post #: 4

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 6:52:27 PM

earthycouple

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"Boy I guess we are very different. For us being Master/Mistress means that we look for "slaves" and as such while we will decide what is good for them if we allow them to choose and if they don't have faith in our good intentions then they are the ones in control and that is not what slavery is about, is it?"

First I suggest you change "us" and "we" to "me" and "I". You can not presume to speak for everyone.
Second...so if some self proclaimed "master" feels it is in the best interest of his slave to chop his leg off then it's ok because "master knows all?" Maybe his good intention is to teach the slave better balance on one leg! Makes good sense to me...sheesh.
Third how can crossing a limit...a hard limit of any kind be a good intention? If my slave proclaims a hard limit of "bisexual" activity and this is something that disturbs him on a deep level how can subjecting him to that be good?
Fourth I suggest reading more threads and "listening" more before you throw our your "truisms" and "absolutes"

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to This1s4you)

Post #: 5

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:01:56 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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You start fooling around with my physical limitations and you'll be the one serving while I'm healing. You accidentally hit a hot emotional button and it takes a while plus a whole lot of work before I can go anywhere near that area. You deliberately hit those emotional buttons knowing what that does to me and you've just proved yourself to be a liar who does not care about my best interests.

I have one weird limit, duct tape gags. We were outside last week duct taping screens on top of windows to convince a robin with his nest nearby that his reflection in the window is not an intruder in his territory and he should stop pecking at the window every morning from 5:00AM onward. At some point when we finished the screening he duct taped my hands loosely together and then brought a piece of tape towards my mouth.

I knew he was joking and wouldn't do it. And yet I still got panicky and nearly screamed to get him to stop it. And it took three days before I could ask for reassurance that he would not have done it. Three days during which I was constantly backing off from him and near tears until I realized that this joking had really upset me. If he had done it for real, knowing how just the mention of it causes panic I would have a hard time learning to trust him again.

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 6

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:07:12 PM

sadomasokisti

Posts: 221
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Iceland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: This1s4you

Boy I guess we are very different. For us being Master/Mistress means that we look for "slaves" and as such while we will decide what is good for them if we allow them to choose and if they don't have faith in our good intentions then they are the ones in control and that is not what slavery is about, is it?

How about the slave who decides to be your slave... I mean isn't that slave then in control of your relationship then? It the slaves decision on his or her part at least.

_____________________________

Pain is good. Extreme pain is extremely good

(in reply to This1s4you)

Post #: 7

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:11:47 PM

szobras

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Limits, are there for a reason. Like LA expressed, the same for me. To cross them goes outside of self for me. I recall in my past, doing things I never said I would or could think myself to do.
Having experienced a couple of those "nevers". I see most of the hard limit discussions pertain to submissives and slaves. I know on this side of the kneel what the crossing of certain limits has meant to me all to well at times in my life. I wonder how others may feel. History shows that good intentions can be the cause of much harm.

< Message edited by szobras -- 5/24/2007 7:16:11 PM >

(in reply to This1s4you)

Post #: 8

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:12:40 PM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
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Greetings

I do not place limits on myself, not because I believe in the ' my limits are Master's limits" but because placing limits says that I lack the courage to attempt something ( this is only my personal view on this ). So, to that end, I do not limit myself in what I may one day be capable of.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to Trampler)

Post #: 9

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:19:47 PM

Masque66

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/4/2007
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I don't know if it's a weird limit, though it is one I haven't heard of before. Only with duct tape? Well that's not too odd. Out of all possible gags duct tape can completely seal the mouth, meaning you have to breathe through your nose. I suppose that prospect would be enough to give me pause in using it.

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 10

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:24:12 PM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
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I feel like the water's rising, and the temperature of said is getting warmer. (In other words, responding to this in this way resembles getting myself into hot water.)

As a dominant, I have generally considered the limits with which I was bound by those of my partner. I've lost my own sense of squicks just through becoming open-minded. Certainly there are things I wouldn't do 'regardless', but to quantify that, the number would be very small.

Having said that, I have, at least in my head, contemplated over the years what would happen if I had been the submissive one in relationships. Whether I could have even considered myself 'slave material'. In having these thoughts, I determined to come up with my own hard limits. Again, the number would be quite low.

The rest of your mileage may vary, and I expect it should, but I would have to say that what limits I have have nothing to do with my headspace. I think for myself, my sense of 'self' is so strong that I'm not certain that that can be touched. So for me, physical activities that require a psychological 'strength' to cross would not be a problem for me (I think).

To wit: Let's take your example. For the record, I'm straight, have never been with a man, and (in general) haven't given it much thought. It's not something that I felt I wanted or needed to experiment with or experience. However, in my way of thinking, were I submissive (or slave) I would express that I have very few limits. I wouldn't necessarily give ideas to my d-type partner what I'm afraid of or not interested in - it wouldn't be my place unless asked.

So, here I am presented with this task. What would I do? Based upon a sense of trust for my partner, knowing that it is what she wants or is compelling me to do, I would obey. Would there be a moment of psychological 'play' going around in my own mind? Almost certainly. The task wouldn't be 'automatic'. But if I judge myself well enough, I don't even think I would be shown to hesitate. Hopefully I would be found pleasing in my performance.

But it wouldn't change 'me'. I don't think I 'personally' can be altered that way. I've been secure in myself for far too long. Would that make me a poor submissive or slave? Maybe not, just not so malleable.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Trampler)

Post #: 11

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:24:26 PM

aldompdx

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Joined: 10/24/2004
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An attitude of breaking limits is indicative of an abusive person. It is like somebody who ejoys breaking the spirit of a wild horse. It is like somebody who enjoys clearcutting a forest. It is a manifestation of narcissism, with no awareness beyond one's own selfish/greedy desires.

(in reply to Masque66)

Post #: 12

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:27:27 PM

earthycouple

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Joined: 2/19/2006
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quote:

Psychology and hard limits

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

Greetings

I do not place limits on myself, not because I believe in the ' my limits are Master's limits" but because placing limits says that I lack the courage to attempt something ( this is only my personal view on this ). So, to that end, I do not limit myself in what I may one day be capable of.

I wish you well

melissa

melissa,
I understand your thought process here...but really....would you allow someone to chop your leg off "cause he wants to?" *yes, this is terribly extreme..but it's only to make a point*

I would be more inclined to say I place "few" limits on myself and I don't shy away from a SSC or RACK challenge. Some people are strange enough to want to do things that are waaayyy beyond even our comprehension in the "vein of control".

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 13

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:30:19 PM

puella

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The bald fact of the matter is that no person or owner can ever know everything about you (sub/slave/insert your favorite categorizing phrase here), no matter how diligent or attentive they are... only you know every modicum of your history and make up. If you , as a dominant, have taken the responsibility of another person, and they have told you that there are certain things which they do not feel they can function healthily, either mentally for physically with, you would not only be an irresponsible owner to disregard them, but you would be a total idiot.

Hard limits are usually there for a reason. It has very little to do with how well or deeply the person is surrendered to you or how well and deftly you have matered them. It is usually just a matter of wiring. Oftentimes, people will have already gone to those places which are hard limits and know the repurcussions for crossing their limits.

On the most simplest level... if you purchase a wheelbarrow and it has a stated maximum capacity of... 300 lbs, but it would please you more to haul 500 lbs of rocks around in it... you would not be surprised to find it falling apart in places... the warning is right there for you to accept when you purchase it. It does not make the model less valuable... it just has different capabilities (it can turn better than a large hauler,etc etc)

Why do we have such a hard time understanding that it is not so different for people. If you want a slave that can haul the rocks you want, read the labels first and aquire the one who has that capability.

< Message edited by puella -- 5/24/2007 7:32:17 PM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to This1s4you)

Post #: 14

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:33:03 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

Master pushed one of my very hard limits, I still think of that day as the day I became his slave really and truly. I didn't and dont see him as abusive.

I guess it depends on the person.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 15

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:33:07 PM

ready4srvce4all

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Joined: 3/9/2007
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I am a novice, and carefully constructed my hard limits, based on either things that I could relate a personal experience to, or have seen the consequences of certain forms of play gone bad. It is most important above all else to respect those limits. But I also see nothing wrong with communication about what exactly is the reason behind the limit. I will never engage in any form of stangulation or hanging play. I am a head injury nurse, and have seen way too many anoxic brain injuries, to overcome that fear no matter how safe or experienced the Dominant is in that realm. But if Mistress were to bring it up for discussion, that would not upset me.

The reasons behind limits are many. To disrespect them, is to deny the submissives basic humanity. Limits can go from hard to soft....new limits may be added. My basic belief is this is supposed to be enjoyable for both parties. Certainly, there is play that may actually be enjoyable for the Dominant, and not the submissive, but it's something the submissive is willing to engage in. But with a hard limit, it's just like being on a vanilla date. No means no.

_____________________________

(in reply to Trampler)

Post #: 16

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:36:06 PM

earthycouple

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ready4srvce4all

I am a novice, and carefully constructed my hard limits, based on either things that I could relate a personal experience to, or have seen the consequences of certain forms of play gone bad. It is most important above all else to respect those limits. But I also see nothing wrong with communication about what exactly is the reason behind the limit. I will never engage in any form of stangulation or hanging play. I am a head injury nurse, and have seen way too many anoxic brain injuries, to overcome that fear no matter how safe or experienced the Dominant is in that realm. But if Mistress were to bring it up for discussion, that would not upset me.

The reasons behind limits are many. To disrespect them, is to deny the submissives basic humanity. Limits can go from hard to soft....new limits may be added. My basic belief is this is supposed to be enjoyable for both parties. Certainly, there is play that may actually be enjoyable for the Dominant, and not the submissive, but it's something the submissive is willing to engage in. But with a hard limit, it's just like being on a vanilla date. No means no.

Damn I love this man...what a great way to look at it. Smart slave...Good Slave...I'm so pleased.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to ready4srvce4all)

Post #: 17

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:37:39 PM

Adelphus

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/3/2004
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I think that one of the safety nets that allows many of us to engage in the BDSM lifestyle is the idea that we can choose what we don't want as well as what we do. How many of us would play with fire without some protection? If someone told me that I had to give up all my rights just to be part of this scene, I wouldn't be here.

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 18

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:40:45 PM

leakylee

Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
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i have a question in all of this reguards. does anyone really think that someone that would actually comtemplate chopping your leg off, or killing you, or involving um's are really going to respect limits? if they are mentally defective enough to want to injure another human in this manner, what in all hells would make them give two shits less about another's overall health and wellbeing??

just curious.

lee

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to Trampler)

Post #: 19

RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:40:55 PM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
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Maybe he just pushed the right one at the right time? How would you feel if he made you have sex with an UM or something that is really really unfathomable for you?

I wonder at times if people get caught up in.. if I do this for him, I will be a true slave sort of mentality (I am not saying this is necessarily true for you, jali.... in fact.. it was something I allowed myself to indulge in and the damage I did to myself is pretty much irreparable.. and in the end, it did not make me any more his slave then when I was lovingly serving him with happiness instead of self destruction.)

< Message edited by puella -- 5/24/2007 7:48:25 PM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 20

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