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RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 7:38:13 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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They also have a duty to obey Bush and I haven't noticed congress charging Bush with a crime, nor begining impeachment and until that happens, anyone who pulls the simple minded bullshit you are whining about is going to be jailed at best and subject to firing squad. You are grandstanding in the most cowardly of ways.

I assume then that you also believe children should be tried as adults and mentally ill and retarded people should not be given any sort of break when they commit crimes? In Vietnam, a tour of duty was ONE FUCKING YEAR, these poor bastards are sent over year after year after year and are lied to over and over and over about how long they will be there.

The people who bear the guilt are those who elected Bush, those who continue to support them, and those who do little to change things in a concrete way. AMERICA bears the guilt of those crimes, not the 18 year old children we send in our place. Most BDSM groups don't allow people to do this for another three fucking years and those bastards are forced to go out and kill people defending their country from our aggression.

So climb down off that sanctimonious perch of yours, inhale a bit of humanity and humility, and focus that ire where it truly belongs, George W. Bush and the Republican Party as well as their forces of darkness like Fox News.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 101

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:10:55 PM

Harlequin719

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

Nothing that George W. Bush is doing is unlawful...not officially anyway. While many people may disagree with his deployment and usage of the military in this current conflict that does *not* make it illegal. Were he impeached or his actions declared illegal, then perhaps the orders would/should be rescinded and the troops should make for as peaceful a withdrawal as possible.

However, until that point in time, those soldiers over there are doing their duty. They have absolutely no right, reason or recourse to "rebel" against their commanding officers. The sheer sentiment of that notion is ridiculous in and of itself, but I'm sure it makes sense to someone who can safely sit within the walls of their home.

< Message edited by Harlequin719 -- 5/29/2007 9:11:47 PM >

_____________________________

The fiction will see the real. The answer will question still.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 102

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:13:38 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Nothing that George W. Bush is doing is unlawful...not officially anyway. While many people may disagree with his deployment and usage of the military in this current conflict that does *not* make it illegal.

There's an old saying here in DC that the real scandal is what's legal.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Harlequin719)

Post #: 103

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:19:32 PM

Harlequin719

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Nothing that George W. Bush is doing is unlawful...not officially anyway. While many people may disagree with his deployment and usage of the military in this current conflict that does *not* make it illegal.

There's an old saying here in DC that the real scandal is what's legal.

I won't dispute that for a second, however, in the context of what's being said Dubya is not doing anything illegal.

_____________________________

The fiction will see the real. The answer will question still.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 104

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 9:22:07 PM

rook42

Posts: 110
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline

Yep yep. You lose your political affiliations when you enlist. If you aren't willing to do that, then it's immoral to sign up.

Personally, though, I think the rules of the game are not well understood by those that are enlisting- there needs to be an informed consent. This also applies to learning that a promise that you won't be transferred is less useful than a sheet of toilet paper.

(in reply to Harlequin719)

Post #: 105

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 10:46:45 PM

Marc2b

Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline

farglebargle,

I’m an affable guy, I like you and I respect you – I really do. But... I have to confess that I damn near laughed my ass off when SimplyMichael called you a pontificating ass. Not only that but this morning, I was listening to the song "If I had a Rocket Launcher," by Bruce Cockburn (In my best Beavis and Butthead immitation: "Heh... heh, heh... heh, heh, heh, heh"). Out of nowhere this thought popped into my head: this could be farglebargle’s theme song.

I don’t see it as a question of one making up, or not making up for another.

Sometimes to answer a question, you have to check and make sure that you are asking the right question. If my cognitive skills are fully functioning tonight (always a dubious presumption), the read I’m getting off of your posts is that the good that American soldiers did in helping to bring about the end of the Holocaust by helping to bring about the end of the third reich (they don’t deserve the honor of capitalization) and liberating concentration camps is negated by the United States’ failure to act sooner to stop the persecutions of Jews. This is guilt by association.

So I guess that is the question. Do you believe in guilt by association?

I might as well admit it, I’m a pontificating ass too. If there’s one thing that really annoys a pontificating ass, it’s another pontificating ass. So here I go:

If you accept guilt by association for some you really have to accept it for all. Not to do so would be self serving hypocrisy (an all to human trait). If everyone is subject to guilt by association then everyone stands condemned. You won’t get an argument from me that the human race is, on the whole, a nasty piece of work and I think you already know my views as to why. Yet I think that it must be acknowledged that in the midst of the horror that is human history we can find moments of peace, acts of kindness, selfless behavior (a true rarity), honesty, compassion and true integrity. Rather than consider such things as negated by humanity’s original sin of being human, we should give credit where it is due and hold such things up as examples of what humanity can be. The fact of the matter is if we negate the good through guilt by association, then the good cannot serve to inspire more good. If we negate the good, we live in a world of only evil. How very depressing.

It is also unfair. It is hard enough for us humans to avoid the temptations of the dark side (to use a little Star Wars lingo), to overcome the dark side in the midst of such soul killing madness that is war, is even more remarkable. It deserves to be acknowledged. Some remarkably brave young men (a lot braver that I think I could be) fought their way through hell (many dying along the way, others being horribly maimed) to destroy an evil that was truly all that is worst in humanity. They saved the lives and brought succor to millions of it’s victims. The presence within those same ranks of evil men who pillaged and raped should not – does not – negate that good. Nor does the circumstances leading up to that moment in history nor the consequences that flowed from it. The good can stand on it’s own, one of many small beacons of light that penetrate the darkness of our history.

As for Prescott Bush, this is a new one on me and I’ve gotta tell ya, my first thought was: oh, oh, ol’ fargle is moving into realone territory. Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not but even if it is true it is still guilt by association.

There is another reason to eschew guilt by association. Most of us have generated enough guilt of our own, do we really need other people’s guilt piled on top of it?

As for soldiers having a "duty" to desert, well... I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: It is easy to have high moral principles so long as the consequences don’t affect you.

Before I go I just want to say, SimplyMichael, you too are a pontificating ass. You can take that as an insult if you really want to but it is offered up as a begrudging compliment.

Now that I think about it, almost everybody on these boards is a pontificating ass. I mean, isn’t that a major reason the boards are so much fun? You get to be a pontificating ass without worrying that you’ll get punched in the nose.

So what was this thread about? Oh right, the widow joining the army thing. Well, I don’t know her and people do handle grief differently. Sometimes doing a positive, an act of good, can lift your spirits out of grief. She has my condolences on her loss and I wish her the best of luck.

Well, I hope you're happy fargle -- you've kept me up way past my bed time.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 106

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 12:29:26 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I disagree with you. I think that, on the contrary, there are many similarities in the way human beings acted, act and will act when they're dealing with the moral consequences of war. I think there are direct correlations in the way wardens treated prisonners at Guantanamo and what happened in the camps.

I also believe soldiers acting under command have undergone training akin to brainwashing: they have lost their will to make informed, humane decision. They have been molded to obey without question.

Come to think of it, war makes for ideal submissives *sigh*.

Yeah! Like with Harkonnen heartplugs.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 5/30/2007 12:30:06 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to peepeegirl5)

Post #: 107

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 12:35:32 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

They also have a duty to obey Bush

Their duty to obey Bush's orders is subservient to their duty to Obey the CONSTITUTION, Regulations, and UCMJ.

*ONLY* if Bush's orders are in compliance with the Constitution, Regs ans UCMJ are they "Lawful".

Until they are determined BY THE SOLDIER to be Lawful, there is no duty to obey them.

Commie Slavebots are different, they much be blindly obedient.

Ain't you glad you live in the Land o the Free?

quote:

and I haven't noticed congress charging Bush with a crime, nor begining impeachment and until that happens, anyone who pulls the simple minded bullshit you are whining about is going to be jailed at best and subject to firing squad. You are grandstanding in the most cowardly of ways.

Holding people accountable for PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, HONOR, INTEGRITY is "Cowardly"???

1) Congress doesn't charge people with crimes. Grand Juries do that.

2) Impeachment is unnecessary. This is a Felony. The United States Attorney brings it to a Grand Jury, they indict, Federal Marshals then perp-walk the White House.

Oh, WAIT. All the politically unreliable US Attorneys were replaced by Monica Goodling with Loyal Bushies!

Damnit, that's going to Obstruct Justice, isn't it?

quote:

I assume then that you also believe children should be tried as adults and mentally ill and retarded people should not be given any sort of break when they commit crimes?

What?

quote:

In Vietnam, a tour of duty was ONE FUCKING YEAR, these poor bastards are sent over year after year after year and are lied to over and over and over about how long they will be there.

They *COULD* always desert. Didn't seem to hurt Bush's career.

quote:

The people who bear the guilt are those who elected Bush, those who continue to support them, and those who do little to change things in a concrete way. AMERICA bears the guilt of those crimes, not the 18 year old children we send in our place. Most BDSM groups don't allow people to do this for another three fucking years and those bastards are forced to go out and kill people defending their country from our aggression.

So you're saying Child Rapists in Uniform get a pass? Or is it just the Torturers who get a pass? Or is it that you *want* soldiers to be mindless Commie Slavebots?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/30/2007 12:37:34 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 108

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 12:39:04 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harlequin719

Nothing that George W. Bush is doing is unlawful...not officially anyway.

11. Pursuant to the Constitution, their oaths of office, their status as Executive Branch employees, and their presence in the United States, BUSH, CHENEY, RICE, RUMSFELD, and POWELL, and their subordinates and employees, are required to obey Title 18, United States Code, Section 371, which prohibits conspiracies to defraud the United States.

12. As used in Section 371, the term "to defraud the United States" means "to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful government functions by deceit, craft, trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest." The term also means to "impair, obstruct, or defeat the lawful function of any department of government" by the use of "false or fraudulent pretenses or representations."

13. A "false" or "fraudulent" representation is one that is: (a) made with knowledge that it is untrue; (b) a half-truth; (c) made without a reasonable basis or with reckless indifference as to whether it is, in fact, true or false; or (d) literally true, but intentionally presented in a manner reasonably calculated to deceive a person of ordinary prudence and intelligence. The knowing concealment or omission of information that a reasonable person would consider important in deciding an issue also constitutes fraud.

14. Congress is a "department of the United States" within the meaning of Section 371. In addition, hearings regarding funding for military action and authorization to use military force are "lawful functions" of Congress.

15. Accordingly, the presentation of information to Congress and the general public through deceit, craft, trickery, dishonest means, and fraudulent representations, including lies, half-truths, material omissions, and statements made with reckless indifference to their truth or falsity, while knowing and intending that such fraudulent representations would influence Congress' decisions regarding authorization to use military force and funding for military action, constitutes interfering with, obstructing, impairing, and defeating a lawful government function of a department of the United States within the meaning of Section 371.

That's a FELONY.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Harlequin719)

Post #: 109

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 12:40:51 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harlequin719

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Nothing that George W. Bush is doing is unlawful...not officially anyway. While many people may disagree with his deployment and usage of the military in this current conflict that does *not* make it illegal.

There's an old saying here in DC that the real scandal is what's legal.

I won't dispute that for a second, however, in the context of what's being said Dubya is not doing anything illegal.

If you repeat a lie often enough, people will start believing it.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Harlequin719)

Post #: 110

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 12:55:02 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

farglebargle,

I’m an affable guy, I like you and I respect you – I really do. But... I have to confess that I damn near laughed my ass off when SimplyMichael called you a pontificating ass. Not only that but this morning, I was listening to the song "If I had a Rocket Launcher," by Bruce Cockburn (In my best Beavis and Butthead immitation: "Heh... heh, heh... heh, heh, heh, heh"). Out of nowhere this thought popped into my head: this could be farglebargle’s theme song.

I don’t see it as a question of one making up, or not making up for another.

Sometimes to answer a question, you have to check and make sure that you are asking the right question. If my cognitive skills are fully functioning tonight (always a dubious presumption), the read I’m getting off of your posts is that the good that American soldiers did in helping to bring about the end of the Holocaust by helping to bring about the end of the third reich (they don’t deserve the honor of capitalization) and liberating concentration camps is negated by the United States’ failure to act sooner to stop the persecutions of Jews. This is guilt by association.

So I guess that is the question. Do you believe in guilt by association?

I think it's more of a, "The US doesn't HAVE any moral high ground w.r.t. the Holocaust, because the US Government didn't do squat in 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, and honestly, if Germany didn't declare War on the US, wouldn't have done squat in 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945....

Considering how much money people in the US were making working WITH and FOR Hitler and the Nazis, it's not really surprising. But it's disgusting to hear people crowing about how wonderful the US was for Liberating the Concentration Camps, when that wasn't even on the agenda.

It's not like Bankers just give OUT loans without knowing what it's used for...

And it's not really "Guilt by Association".

Here's an example.

PFC Steven D. Green and SGT Paul E. Cortez, SPC James P. Barker, PFC Jesse V. Spielman and PFC Bryan L. Howard planned the rape and murder of a 14 year old girl and her family.

Getting past "Why didn't the SGT draw his sidearm, and shoot these animals dead when he heard of their conspiracy to commit rape and murder?", the next question is "How could discipline have broken down so badly, that this happened?"

Well, it's because no-one has been PUNISHED for this yet.

If the military was worthy of any honor and respect, the court martial would be long over, and these animals would have swung the Hemp Fandango, PERHAPS enabling the souls of Abeer Qasim Hamza al-Janabi and her family to finally rest in peace.

HOW ELSE to teach the lesson, "THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE?" to people paid to kill for a living?

Now this atmosphere of lack of accountability, honor, and integrity is perhaps set by the White House's lack of Honor, Integrity and Accountability?

It's a failure of the whole system. From the the CiC all the way down to the PFC.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/30/2007 1:00:54 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 111

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:26:11 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Commie Slavebots are different, they much be blindly obedient.

Ok... I've got to say it..

"Commie slavebot this... comme slavebot that..."

Who are you, McCarthy?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 112

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:27:59 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

Nobody in the world has moral high ground when it comes to the holocost - except those who were killed because nobody did anything.

That guilt is not solely America's.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 113

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:28:24 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

I feel that's the ESSENTIAL difference between a nation built on Freedom and Liberty and one built on State Control.

And it seems that, "Commie Slavebot" is the perfect description for the OPPOSITE of what we have here. Which is, "People with a duty to think, and act as their conscience tells them".

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 114

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:30:14 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Nobody in the world has moral high ground when it comes to the holocost - except those who were killed because nobody did anything.

That guilt is not solely America's.

Yes, surely. Agreed. Thank you.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 115

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:33:21 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I feel that's the ESSENTIAL difference between a nation built on Freedom and Liberty and one built on State Control.

And it seems that, "Commie Slavebot" is the perfect description for the OPPOSITE of what we have here. Which is, "People with a duty to think, and act as their conscience tells them".

You are not familiar with what makes a functioning army. A functioning army does as it is told. It is the duty of the higher ranking officals to do the thinking. Save for instences of gross moral negliance, the grunts are not punished for obeying orders.

And no "commie slavebot" is not a perfect description. It's a throwback to an era where fear of the papers Senator McCarthy supposedly had in his briefcase ruled. Lives were destroyed by similiar phrases to the one you utter. It's not company I'd keep.

Put your rage at the ones giving the orders. Otherwise we'll have a dsyfunctional army that can not defend if actually needed because everyone will be running off in their own direction.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 116

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:35:50 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Nobody in the world has moral high ground when it comes to the holocost - except those who were killed because nobody did anything.

That guilt is not solely America's.

Yes, surely. Agreed. Thank you.

In which case, why are you bitching so much about America's guilt? Again, what did Brazil do? You can't try to assign the blame to the target you are currently annoyed at by not mentioning that America is no more guilty then anyone else.

Every country in the world who did not try to prevent it (and that's a LOT) has an equal share to that guilt.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 117

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:39:57 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I feel that's the ESSENTIAL difference between a nation built on Freedom and Liberty and one built on State Control.

And it seems that, "Commie Slavebot" is the perfect description for the OPPOSITE of what we have here. Which is, "People with a duty to think, and act as their conscience tells them".

You are not familiar with what makes a functioning army. A functioning army does as it is told. It is the duty of the higher ranking officals to do the thinking. Save for instences of gross moral negliance, the grunts are not punished for obeying orders.

I would consider that a DYSfunctional army. Hell, we're not even supposed to HAVE any standing armies. They're supposed to fade away after 2 years, hence the limits on appropriations in the Constitution. But people *are* making quite a lot of money off of exploiting them, so I expect it's not going to change soon.

quote:

And no "commie slavebot" is not a perfect description. It's a throwback to an era where fear of the papers Senator McCarthy supposedly had in his briefcase ruled. Lives were destroyed by similiar phrases to the one you utter. It's not company I'd keep.

Put your rage at the ones giving the orders. Otherwise we'll have a dsyfunctional army that can not defend if actually needed because everyone will be running off in their own direction.

The point of hanging people at Nuremberg was that obedience to orders wasn't sufficient.

I think if the army is incapable of executing child-rapists, it's pretty fucking dysfunctional. And I think that using elite troops for fucking occupation police for the past 4 years has done more damage than can be repaired.

The people who give an order to torture, and those who OBEY that order should hang together.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 118

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:45:27 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I feel that's the ESSENTIAL difference between a nation built on Freedom and Liberty and one built on State Control.

And it seems that, "Commie Slavebot" is the perfect description for the OPPOSITE of what we have here. Which is, "People with a duty to think, and act as their conscience tells them".

You are not familiar with what makes a functioning army. A functioning army does as it is told. It is the duty of the higher ranking officals to do the thinking. Save for instences of gross moral negliance, the grunts are not punished for obeying orders.

I would consider that a DYSfunctional army. Hell, we're not even supposed to HAVE any standing armies. They're supposed to fade away after 2 years, hence the limits on appropriations in the Constitution. But people *are* making quite a lot of money off of exploiting them, so I expect it's not going to change soon.

quote:

And no "commie slavebot" is not a perfect description. It's a throwback to an era where fear of the papers Senator McCarthy supposedly had in his briefcase ruled. Lives were destroyed by similiar phrases to the one you utter. It's not company I'd keep.

Put your rage at the ones giving the orders. Otherwise we'll have a dsyfunctional army that can not defend if actually needed because everyone will be running off in their own direction.

The point of hanging people at Nuremberg was that obedience to orders wasn't sufficient.

I think if the army is incapable of executing child-rapists, it's pretty fucking dysfunctional. And I think that using elite troops for fucking occupation police for the past 4 years has done more damage than can be repaired.

The people who give an order to torture, and those who OBEY that order should hang together.

The holocost counts as "gross moral negliance" by the way.

We not hang child molesters in the States, but they have been punished. You may not think harshly enough, I don't either, but it's been done.

However, you have to consider something. The Army, like those involved with BDSM, is merely a population. And every population has a percentage of sick people. Child molesters, rapists, and so on. We have them in our community, sad to say. They exist in the world. To expect them not to exist in our armed forces is simply to delude yourself. Again, put your anger where it is useful!

Target those in command who can actually do something! Leave the grunts out of this as most of them are good, hard-working people who don't hurt anybody.

Just about the only problem anyone is having with your statements is that you make sweeping generalizations about the entire population of the army, which is exactly the same as when people say we are fucked up, are abusers, and should be hanged because we are into BDSM.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 119

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/30/2007 1:49:23 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Nobody in the world has moral high ground when it comes to the holocost - except those who were killed because nobody did anything.

That guilt is not solely America's.

Yes, surely. Agreed. Thank you.

In which case, why are you bitching so much about America's guilt? Again, what did Brazil do? You can't try to assign the blame to the target you are currently annoyed at by not mentioning that America is no more guilty then anyone else.

Every country in the world who did not try to prevent it (and that's a LOT) has an equal share to that guilt.

Nazis came up originally in the context of the Nuremberg Trials.

We must never forget the lessons there. And ask ourselves, "If we have slipped so far down the slope we will imprison people for life, without lawyer, charge, any outside contact or due process, THEN torture them, sometimes to death, what *won't* we do?"

And then we realize, "If we'll do it for a GOOD reason, we'll do it for ANY REASON, because someone can *always* rationalize something up."

And then ask ourselves, "How do we stop this?"

And then we ask ourselves, "Are we, now, due to our current acts only different from the Nazis in scale?"

What is it to the victim of arbitrary life-imprisonment and torture whether it's because they're a Jew in the wrong place at the wrong time, or a Muslim in the wrong place in the wrong time?

And then we ask ourselves, "Can we ever find absolution?"

It's a quarter to five, and I already need a fucking drink.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/30/2007 1:50:39 AM >

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 120

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