quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

The holocost counts as "gross moral negliance" by the way.

We not hang child molesters in the States, but they have been punished. You may not think harshly enough, I don't either, but it's been done.

quote:



However, you have to consider something. The Army, like those involved with BDSM, is merely a population. And every population has a percentage of sick people. Child molesters, rapists, and so on. We have them in our community, sad to say. They exist in the world. To expect them not to exist in our armed forces is simply to delude yourself. Again, put your anger where it is useful!

quote:


Target those in command who can actually do something! Leave the grunts out of this as most of them are good, hard-working people who don't hurt anybody.

Just about the only problem anyone is having with your statements is that you make sweeping generalizations about the entire population of the army, which is exactly the same as when people say we are fucked up, are abusers, and should be hanged because we are into BDSM.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Fargle, that question didn't ask you anything about Nazis. It asked why you are only assigning blame to America.

I'm starting to think that you are just looking for platforms from which to shout your opinions, not discussions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Fargle, that question didn't ask you anything about Nazis. It asked why you are only assigning blame to America.

I'm starting to think that you are just looking for platforms from which to shout your opinions, not discussions.

Well, we're discussing the Parallels of Nazi Germany to Neocon America.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

~Now we have death by Bush?

A young bride of one year lost her husband, who she met in 2nd grade, in Iraq a few months ago.

She is joining the Army because she feels she wants to help by being a medic. She feels if she can save one person from the emotional pain she is going through it will be worth it.

She says she had cried all she could.  She has until June 11th to reconsider her enlistment.

We are now enlisting severely depressed to fight in this war.  Talk about *opportunists (*meaning  recruiters).
I wonder whats next? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Fargle, that question didn't ask you anything about Nazis. It asked why you are only assigning blame to America.

I'm starting to think that you are just looking for platforms from which to shout your opinions, not discussions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

It is the fault of the rapist when he rapes, not the fault of his mother for not realizing he would rape. I would agree with you that if the forces are not punishing their own by their rules, then something should be done about it. But I don't expect them to magically know every's recruits future and if they will be good and moral, or criminal and immoral.

quote:


We must never forget the lessons there. And ask ourselves, "If we have slipped so far down the slope we will imprison people for life, without lawyer, charge, any outside contact or due process, THEN torture them, sometimes to death, what *won't* we do?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:


We must never forget the lessons there. And ask ourselves, "If we have slipped so far down the slope we will imprison people for life, without lawyer, charge, any outside contact or due process, THEN torture them, sometimes to death, what *won't* we do?"

Let me see if I got this right. You’re against denying people the due process of law and torturing them – but – when an army sargent hears some men conspiring to commit a crime he’s supposed to draw his side arm and shoot them on the spot?

quote:


Also, it sounds like you’re saying the United States should have launched a pre-emptive strike against Germany. Didn’t I have several rounds with you and others on this subject in which I advocated that pre-emptive strikes are sometimes necessary and moral while you and everybody else excoriated me for being a violence loving, hate mongering, un-evolved savage?

quote:


I may be talking out of my ass here but I can't help but wonder why this is such an emotional thing for you. You seem incapable of dispassionate discourse on the subject of rape. You keep coming back to that fourteen year old girl. Most of us when we hear of such things think to ourselves oh gee, that's terrible, then turn the page to see what Funky Winkerbean is up to.

quote:


We just can't get too emotionaly involved with the lives of strangers (i.e. people outside our tribe) -- unless there is something that hits close to home about it. I can be very emotional about rape too. One of my nieces was violently raped when she was fourteen. So I know how reading about something similar can really hit close to home and make you less than rational -- can make you ache to just get your fingers around some bastard's neck. I'm wondering if this hits close to your home. If I'm a lousy armchair psycologist who's talking out of his ass, tell me so. If I'm intruding on priavte shit, tell me to fuck off. But, if I'm hitting close to a target, you have my heartfelt condolences.

quote:


I'm disappointed in the whole chain of command. While I'm totally in favor of trying them THEN hanging them, I also believe that rape is inherently evil, and those who do rape are completely worthless as human beings, and would not, if on a jury, convict anyone who shoots down a rapist, myself, as they have done a public service.

This is, of course, moot, as the SGT is a piece-of-shit rapist, too.

quote:


You don't have to pre-emptively strike. *IF* the US prevented US CITIZENS from "FUNDING THE NAZIS" Hitler wouldn't have been able to afford to build the Camps.

quote:


ECONOMIC EMBARGOS are a diplomatic tool to enforce compliance.

quote:


Maybe that's a problem you should think about.

quote:


Why doesn't it bother you that IN YOUR NAME children are being raped and murdered?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

farglebargle,

I’m an affable guy, I like you and I respect you – I really do. But... I have to confess that I damn near laughed my ass off when SimplyMichael called you a pontificating ass. Not only that but this morning, I was listening to the song "If I had a Rocket Launcher," by Bruce Cockburn (In my best Beavis and Butthead immitation: "Heh... heh, heh... heh, heh, heh, heh"). Out of nowhere this thought popped into my head: this could be farglebargle’s theme song.

I don’t see it as a question of one making up, or not making up for another.

Sometimes to answer a question, you have to check and make sure that you are asking the right question. If my cognitive skills are fully functioning tonight (always a dubious presumption), the read I’m getting off of your posts is that the good that American soldiers did in helping to bring about the end of the Holocaust by helping to bring about the end of the third reich (they don’t deserve the honor of capitalization) and liberating concentration camps is negated by the United States’ failure to act sooner to stop the persecutions of Jews. This is guilt by association.

So I guess that is the question. Do you believe in guilt by association?

I might as well admit it, I’m a pontificating ass too. If there’s one thing that really annoys a pontificating ass, it’s another pontificating ass. So here I go:

If you accept guilt by association for some you really have to accept it for all. Not to do so would be self serving hypocrisy (an all to human trait). If everyone is subject to guilt by association then everyone stands condemned. You won’t get an argument from me that the human race is, on the whole, a nasty piece of work and I think you already know my views as to why. Yet I think that it must be acknowledged that in the midst of the horror that is human history we can find moments of peace, acts of kindness, selfless behavior (a true rarity), honesty, compassion and true integrity. Rather than consider such things as negated by humanity’s original sin of being human, we should give credit where it is due and hold such things up as examples of what humanity can be. The fact of the matter is if we negate the good through guilt by association, then the good cannot serve to inspire more good. If we negate the good, we live in a world of only evil. How very depressing.

It is also unfair. It is hard enough for us humans to avoid the temptations of the dark side (to use a little Star Wars lingo), to overcome the dark side in the midst of such soul killing madness that is war, is even more remarkable. It deserves to be acknowledged. Some remarkably brave young men (a lot braver that I think I could be) fought their way through hell (many dying along the way, others being horribly maimed) to destroy an evil that was truly all that is worst in humanity. They saved the lives and brought succor to millions of it’s victims. The presence within those same ranks of evil men who pillaged and raped should not – does not – negate that good. Nor does the circumstances leading up to that moment in history nor the consequences that flowed from it. The good can stand on it’s own, one of many small beacons of light that penetrate the darkness of our history.

As for Prescott Bush, this is a new one on me and I’ve gotta tell ya, my first thought was: oh, oh, ol’ fargle is moving into realone territory. Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not but even if it is true it is still guilt by association.

There is another reason to eschew guilt by association. Most of us have generated enough guilt of our own, do we really need other people’s guilt piled on top of it?

As for soldiers having a "duty" to desert, well... I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: It is easy to have high moral principles so long as the consequences don’t affect you.

Before I go I just want to say, SimplyMichael, you too are a pontificating ass. You can take that as an insult if you really want to but it is offered up as a begrudging compliment.

Now that I think about it, almost everybody on these boards is a pontificating ass. I mean, isn’t that a major reason the boards are so much fun? You get to be a pontificating ass without worrying that you’ll get punched in the nose.

So what was this thread about? Oh right, the widow joining the army thing. Well, I don’t know her and people do handle grief differently. Sometimes doing a positive, an act of good, can lift your spirits out of grief. She has my condolences on her loss and I wish her the best of luck.

Well, I hope you're happy fargle -- you've kept me up way past my bed time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:


Why doesn't it bother you that IN YOUR NAME children are being raped and murdered?

A lot of things bother me but if I spent all my time being bothered then I would be one of the perennially indignant. I don’t want to spend my life in such a state. I’ve tried it. It is emotionally crippling and saps all the joy out of life.

quote:

*bangs dildo on tabletop*

here here

quote:

So do what just turn the other way and it will all get better?  To me that is being part of the problem not the solution.