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RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 12:43:40 PM

AquaticSub

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

This battle is being questioned and scruntized from all sides. We know about the torture and we did something about it. You might not think it was enough but we did something. We exposed it, it was front page, everyone was disgusted.

What justice has been done for Abeer Qasim Hamza al-Janabi , who was gang-raped and murdered, along with her family, premeditatedly, by soldiers wearing the US flag, acting in the name of the US, and The People?

Has Steven D. Green been Hanged?

Has the SGT who PERMITTED IT been hanged?

Why should they be permitted to rape and murder children in our name, without justice?

So, we refuse to hold the troops accountable, and we refuse to hold the CiC accountable.

Given the proven lack of Honor and Integrity, maybe those who believe the troops deserve to be spit upon aren't totally off base.

Like I said, you may not think it's enough. But we did something and we are aware of it. That makes it very different from the holocost, which is the point I was making.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 61

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 12:45:41 PM

LightHeartedMaam

Posts: 296
Joined: 5/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

Is there a psychologist/psychiatrist lurking in the house? Maybe he/she can explain about grief and the mental state of traumatic events.

I think you are refusing to admit that you could be wrong.

Far from it.

quote:

I have experienced grief. But that does not mean this woman was taken advantage of. The one simply does not mean the other. While others have provided a source for us to learn about this woman, you have not. You did not even give us a name. I wonder why.

Because I am refering to the SITUATION, of a young girl, who lost her young husband~somone she has known since 2nd grade. Where I have BEEN young, you have yet to experience the knowledge and learn the absolutes in life that age will give you. You would rather argue than learn. Your day will come.

quote:

Plenty of people are motivated to do things by the death of a loved one. Some will join the fight against breast cancer. Some will join the police. Others may become teachers in hopes of educating youth to go against violence. This woman responded in a way that you do not approve of and therefore, she must be blinded from grief.

I agree. I do NOT approve and I hope she can at least focus on a desk job if they are wise enough to give something like that to her. But I hope like hell they don't give her a gun. She is runing on emotion and adrenaline right now.

quote:

She may have been. But nobody has given us anything to anything either way. And I don't think it's respectful of her, her grief or her way of honoring her husband to twist it into this "warning" message.

Somethings are just common sence. All I can say is watch and wait to see what happens. Either she will wake up or she will go and get her shit blasted away the first day. Like I said, I hope she gets a desk job. Or better, I hope her neighborhood does a protest.

< Message edited by LightHeartedMaam -- 5/29/2007 12:46:02 PM >

_____________________________

Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that it seems I have more patience. Turns out, that I just don't give a sh*t.

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Post #: 62

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 12:47:45 PM

SimplyMichael

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Fargle,

I find your attacks on the troops reprehensible. Attack the political party that sent them there, attack the idiot who lied to get us into a war, attack the idiots who planned it, attack the idiots who want us to stay, but DON'T attack the fucking 18 year old kids sent an insane shithole, away from their families for years, afraid to go out because we have turned Iraq into a disaster, don't blame them from your very safe soapbox.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 63

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 12:55:23 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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Well, you're right. The United States NEVER did anything to end the holocaust.

That doesn't make the lack of Honor and Integrity justified in any way. It just means that Bush's Grand-dad, Prescott could spread around enough money to make his support of Hitler and the Nazis a non-issue.

It all boils down to the oath.

Constitution.
Regs
UCMJ

And if an order passes THOSE 3 TESTS, then it is lawful and worthy of obedience.

Trying to absolve ones-self of that RESPONSIBILITY and DUTY is the worst kind of treason imaginable, in my opinion.

That kind of blindness is why 6 million of my people were exterminated. And it's an insult to those things which separate us from the communists and Nazis.

Or it used to.

If the Iraq-AUMF was obtained fraudulently, *ALL* orders deriving from it are by definition Unlawful.

And every single soldier is aiding-and-abetting a felon.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 64

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 12:59:11 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Fargle,

I find your attacks on the troops reprehensible. Attack the political party that sent them there, attack the idiot who lied to get us into a war, attack the idiots who planned it, attack the idiots who want us to stay, but DON'T attack the fucking 18 year old kids sent an insane shithole, away from their families for years, afraid to go out because we have turned Iraq into a disaster, don't blame them from your very safe soapbox.

Those "kids" took an oath.

If they didn't want the responsibility that goes along with it, they shouldn't have sworn the oath.

But they did.

So they must be held accountable for their lack of fidelity, honor and integrity, by failing to uphold that oath.

"We were only following orders" got Nazis hanged at Nuremberg to prove the point that "We were only following orders" isn't an excuse.

Or is it acceptable to you for a soldier to, wearing your flag, in your name, raping and murdering a 14 year old girl?

If it *isn't* then why aren't you demanding accountability, from the lowest rank to the CiC?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 65

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:01:36 PM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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I watch the news and rarely do i hear troops that are in the process of returning to Iraq talk about giving the people of Iraq a democracy or battling the "terrorists" what they seem to say is that they are looking to get back to support "their own".....This is a noble cause but is it truly something to give up your legs, arms, eyes and life for?

There are battles that are worth fighting and dying for....This is not one.

I can accept the fact that possibly (extremely dubious) our President was so misinformed that he had no idea that everything that he said would happen or was happening at the time has proven to be false.....I cannot accept the fact that he stared into the camera on several occassions and stated that he never said there was a connection to Saddam Hussein and the 9-11 terrorist attacks in making the case for war with Iraq. He is a liar....

If you are willing to go to Iraq then you must accept the fact that there is the possibility that you will be wounded or killed.....I cannot think of a more tragic scenario of someone who is unable to reason that the potential loss does not begin to justify the means.

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Post #: 66

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:15:21 PM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

~Now we have death by Bush?

A young bride of one year lost her husband, who she met in 2nd grade, in Iraq a few months ago.

She is joining the Army because she feels she wants to help by being a medic. She feels if she can save one person from the emotional pain she is going through it will be worth it.

She says she had cried all she could. She has until June 11th to reconsider her enlistment.

We are now enlisting severely depressed to fight in this war. Talk about *opportunists (*meaning recruiters).
I wonder whats next?

You can not state that this woman is severely depressed. Is she going through angst? I'm sure. Is she heart broken? Probably. Severely depressed? How do you know that? Because you think it's a rule of thumb or you know someone else who was severely depressed after a loss?

Well let me tell you sister...depression affect or doesn't affect people for all sorts of reasons. When a woman gives birth and becomes severely depressed it is not because of a loss, it is because of post partum hormonal changes.

As a pediatric hospice nurse I would think that seeing the death of one's child would be the worst possible scenario for loss. I watched parents stand up post funeral to build support systems for other families, to take care of their other children, to give fund raisers and build trusts for others with the same grief. Never once did I see any of these families wait the "obligatory year".

Everyone is different and this woman may use this as a way to feel stronger because she is helping others, just like the above mentioned parents.

Just because YOU would act one way means little as to the actions of others. You can not blame the military. She chose to enlist and if she passed the required testing then I say "good for you, go get em girl...make your husband proud."

edited cause I hit the wrong button

< Message edited by earthycouple -- 5/29/2007 1:20:26 PM >

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D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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Post #: 67

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:16:29 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

Somethings are just common sence. All I can say is watch and wait to see what happens. Either she will wake up or she will go and get her shit blasted away the first day. Like I said, I hope she gets a desk job. Or better, I hope her neighborhood does a protest.

You want her neighborhood to protest somethat that is her right as an American?

This is not common sense. It's her choice and your vague hints that "my day will come" are childish. My day will come - and yours. It's the one of the few truths in life - our loved ones will die.

My response will be different then yours. But by your logic, no one should be allowed to enter med school if someone has died of cancer or other disease within a year because they might be blinded by grief. No one is allowed to act on their grief to try and change the world the way they know how.

And for that matter, where did guns come into this? She's going to be a medic. She's go through basic, but she won't have a gun because she will be working on the wounded. She wants to ease the pain of the sick and the wounded. Would you deny the wounded soliders medical care? Are they not worth saving? Is it ok only if the people there have no personal stake in the matter?

The bottom line is that this is her choice. This is her way of trying to prevent what happened to her from happening to others. It's her right to help save others and if she was going to be a medic in a normal hopsital, you wouldn't care.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LightHeartedMaam)

Post #: 68

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:18:54 PM

FemmeOwner

Posts: 120
Joined: 11/26/2006
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If enough of them had had the balls to stand up and say "Hell, no, we won't go," there wouldn't have BEEN a war. It takes a LOT more courage to stand up and be counted, than to commit wholesale slaughter on a whole populace, on the excuse of *getting* Saddam. PLEASE! We didn't TURN Iraq into a disaster... we CREATED the disaster the moment our troops set hostile foot on Iraqi soil. When something is WRONG you say NO! You think it means a whole lot to the murdered Iraqi's or their surviving families and friends, that the American soldiers were "just following orders"? They should never have been sent there. They should never have gone like sheep to maim and kill to uphold some idiot megalomaniac's dream to be a "war president."

They are not DEFENDING OUR COUNTRY. This war was NEVER ABOUT defending our country, and anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows that. Even the soldiers know that. And, knowing that, they should have refused to be sent. If every soldier who knew it was WRONG, refused to go, there would not have been enough courts for courtmartials, enough jails to hold the courtmartialed. They would have had the support of a vast number of Americans, and leaders and people worldwide, because the Bush administration and that asshole Blair, riding on Bush's coattails, were the only people (I'm not counting the ignorant sheeple) who DID think invading Iraq was the right thing to do! So, the soldiers went even though they knew what they were doing was against all humanity. They did things against all humanity, in the name of following orders (<--copout). They have to deal with the consequences <shrug>

And... by the way... I AM a Veteran! Vietnam era. My family is heavily involved in DAR. I'm descended from Officers of both the North and South in the Late Unpleasantness. My ancestors escaped to this country after Culloden. So don't anyone even THINK of calling me a traitor or un-American. I DO believe in the ideals that formed this country and made it great. In MY eyes, the REAL traitor, the traitor to this country and all that America stands for, is sitting in the Oval Office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Fargle,

I find your attacks on the troops reprehensible. Attack the political party that sent them there, attack the idiot who lied to get us into a war, attack the idiots who planned it, attack the idiots who want us to stay, but DON'T attack the fucking 18 year old kids sent an insane shithole, away from their families for years, afraid to go out because we have turned Iraq into a disaster, don't blame them from your very safe soapbox.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 69

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:19:51 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

My point was only about the holocost and how the current state of affairs is not similar to the holocost. I will not be getting into this debate with you because I refuse to blame all the men and women for the acts of the few.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 70

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:21:20 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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If you really are a Vietnam vet, I would think you would be more familar with the concept of hating the war, not the soldier.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to FemmeOwner)

Post #: 71

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:23:32 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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Actually both Bush and Hitler used Fear of The Other to con their respective Free, Democratic nations to give up Due Process and Equal Protection of the Law.

Muslim is the "New Jew". And if you can do it to Muslims, you can *easily* do it to us Jews again.

It scares the shit out of me, by my kids will go down with guns in their hands, rather than being sent to a Camp.

You do know that this Bush Family hates Jews, and was in a very great way, responsible for the deaths?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/29/2007 1:24:28 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 72

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:26:42 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

The United States NEVER did anything to end the holocaust.

Except for D-Day, the Battle of the Bulge, etc...

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 73

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:28:18 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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Your comparison is weak there. Show me the anti-Muslim books that the government is making for our children. Show me the stars our government is making all Muslims wear.

Yes, the system is not perfect. But considering we live in a country where once people wore buttons that said "Jap Hunting Licence - Expires NEVER", I'm not seeing a lot of hate or signs of danger. There have been abuses of power, but things are slowly straightening out and these abuses have been tempered by the mistakes of the past.

It is not perfect. But it's better then it used to be and from a historical point of view, that's good. It needs more work, definitely. But hopefully the lessons we have learned this time will serve us well along with the old lessons.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 74

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:30:13 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

The United States NEVER did anything to end the holocaust.

Except for D-Day, the Battle of the Bulge, etc...

Not to mention liberating the camps, arranging for healthcare for the survivors... that stuff didn't magically happen from nothing.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 75

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:30:14 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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That makes up for the Bush Family GIVING Hitler the money to construct the Camps?

If it wasn't for Japan, the US wouldn't EVER have gotten involved.

Actually, if it wasn't for Germany declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbor, the US wouldn't have gotten involved at all.

Tell that to the 6 million dead, and their families, killed with the active assistance of Prescott Bush, who NO BUSH has ever dis-owned....

Fucking Nazis....

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 76

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:32:03 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

That makes up for the Bush Family GIVING Hitler the money to construct the Camps?

If it wasn't for Japan, the US wouldn't EVER have gotten involved.

Actually, if it wasn't for Germany declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbor, the US wouldn't have gotten involved at all.

Tell that to the 6 million dead, and their families, killed with the active assistance of Prescott Bush, who NO BUSH has ever dis-owned....

Fucking Nazis....

Show me proof of that and please read what I've been saying.

I have said that America did not want to be involved in the war and we only got involved when we were bombed. I also said that America still suffers from isolationistic thinking (which is what kept us out of the war)

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 77

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:32:41 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

From 1848 through 1 April 1933, Jews were considered equal members of German society ( under German law )

1 April 1933: Jewish doctors, shops, lawyers and stores were boycotted.

7 April: "Law for the Restoration of the professional Civil Service" banning Jews employed in government.

1935: Jews were forbidden to join the Wehrmacht. anti-Jewish propaganda appeared in Nazi-German shops and restaurants, Nuremberg Racial Purity Laws.

15 September 1935 : "Law for the Protection of German Blood and Honour"

1935 (cont ) "Reich Citizenship Law" all Jews, even quarter- and half-Jews, were no longer citizens.

1936, Jews were banned from all professional jobs

1 March 1938, Government contracts could not be awarded to Jewish businesses.

17 August, 1938 Jews had to add "Israel" (males) or "Sarah" (females) to their names

30 September 1938, "Aryan" doctors could only treat "Aryan" patients. ) remember how Jews were banned from practicing medicine back in 1936?

5 October a large letter "J" was to be imprinted on their passports

15 November Jewish children were banned from going to normal schools.

November 9-10 Kristallnacht - Approximately 100 Jews were killed, and another 20,000 arrested, some of which were sent to the newly formed concentration camps.

On May 19, 1943, Germany was declared Judenrein ("free of Jews") At this point, 200,000 German Jews had been killed.

Yeah, right.... Tell me more about how the US helped Jews.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 78

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:35:19 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Proof of what? That Bush's Grandfather was one of Hitler's biggest financial supporters? It's common knowledge.

And the apple don't fall too far from the tree.

I'd "LOVE" to hear any of the Bushs denounce Prescott's Nazi-Loving-Jew-Murdering history....

But they won't.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 79

RE: Death by Cop~ - 5/29/2007 1:38:12 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

That's... Germany...

Not America...

America... did... not... want... to... know... what... was... going... on...

I have said. Many times. You have trouble listening.

Americans did liberate camps. Americans did give the surviors a place of safety.

For that matter, why don't you stop bitching about America? African countries didn't do anything. For that matter, what did Brazil do to help the Jewish! Come on folks, let's hear it!

Ahhh.... but then we'd have to stop bitching about everyone's favorite country to piss on.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 80

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