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Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:02:51 PM   
SirMGD


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pasted below is an email i wrote to a sub friend, who takes quite a hard stance against smoking. I am trying to quit, but haven't yet, and after some heated back and forth, during which she made it clear that "NO ONE smoked in her house", I had these thoughts, and now ask the same of you all, wondering I suppose, where the line is drawn, in a truly D/s household?;

quote:

actually R----, what I'm getting at, and something i invariably inspire;
acceptance, tolerance, and unconditional surrender.

one would think, that a submissive, more especially a SLAVE, like you, and so many others, would cultivate such traits, knowing she must, sooner or later.
What would you do if your master, who you'd been collared to for years, and whom you adored and loved, decided to start smoking? Would you dump him? ask to be released? Try to stop him? How would you exert your will? What if it were his house, or even better, you were married, so it belonged to you both legally?

I use smoking as an example, because you have such a hard stance on it. Nobody smokes in our house huh?..."even you my Master"...lol.

Such rigidity has no place in a truly submissive mind or heart. You might say that a sub has to be that way beforehand, to avoid situations, once surrendered, which she couldn't tolerate. Perhaps, but since most of the available subs I meet seem to have a multitude of similar rigidities, I often wonder if that isn't precisely why they remain available.

Sorry R----, subbies mustn't be ball-busters. Or ever plan to be.
If I ever did smoke in your house, it would be only because I knew you wanted me to, because you'd accepted me, unconditionally. because i'd made you so happy, you wanted to do something, anything, to make me feel comfortable, and I'd know you didn't mind, because you said you didn't.

I know you are incredulous at such a postulation, but it has happened to me before. I'm serious. I think what you fail to see is that a man, me, or any man, could ever make you that happy. So happy you didn't care what his kisses smelled like, or his semen tasted like. They'd be trivialities, and hugely overshadowed by any possibility of the alternative~ not having him.

just some things to ponder dear.
Your friend


thoughts?
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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:15:41 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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This is WHERE it's best for like minded people with similar views and interests to get together for a D/s relationship.   D/s does not work well when there are major differences.  

In terms of smoking if it threatens the D/s relationship in regards to smoking in a household.   Either a compromise or understanding is reached.   Be it smoking outside, a special smoking area.   Perhaps, the party in question discontinues smoking or not.

It's it's an area that the submissive stands ground on, these means this is a serious matter.   Some sub/slaves may simply deal with it, and it's not a big issue.  Others it is..  This is an issue that is big enough to call a time out and for things to get figured out.   Come to some form of new terms and conditions.

You just might find yourself one day having a different sub/slave, one that does not mind smoking.   Some has to give or take when Big new changes happen.  We are not talking about somebody's personal taste in food or how laundry is done.  Smoking is and can be a major issue.    

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:20:12 PM   
cjenny


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Honestly? To a non-smoker you probably smell like an ashtray & if you've ever licked an ashtray you may understand.
Cigarette butts smell.
It turns walls yellow, soaks into clothing/carpet/furniture. It's actually sticky. Teeth go yellow & so do fingernails.  Many are allergic to it.
None of my friends dom, my dom (tho he does not smoke), no one is allowed to smoke cigs in my house. I don't understand why you wouldn't understand this.

Ew. My honest reaction is ew to tasting a smoker.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:20:14 PM   
Celeste43


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Sorry, your domliness does not mean that her health should be compromised. Second hand smoke is a known health hazard. If she has any other breathing problems such as asthma, allergies etc then by insisting on smoking inside the house you could be deliberately harming her.

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:23:25 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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If it's Master/slave relationship based on Old Guard standards.. The Master has complete control over what goes down regardless of what the slave says.  For the D/s relationships that Don't follow Old Guard standards... Watered Down D/s according to Old Guard.   This whole process should be negoatiated.  

Big difference between TPE and PPE... Total power verse Partial Power.  For any TPE Relationships.. the Dom/Master has ultimate say and the sub/slave must obey and follow.  A sub/slave the opposes a Master very much in a TPE is grounds for release and for the MASTER to seek another slave that will truely submit to a 24/7 TPE relationship.    PPE D/s relationships have a bit of on going negation.. however in time the D/s aspects grow stronger as the relationship progresses... 

Still since Slavery is not legal, and since even submissives have human rights! Well, this means they have the power to stop things, and place demands as a Equal.  Most will do this is if it's over a serious issue..  I'm not talking about how well the socks are folded or not.. LOL...

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:26:04 PM   
zumala


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I love my in-laws to death, but my mother-in-law and sister-in-law smoke.  I stay out on the porch to chat as long as I can... but I suffer for it.  I'm allergic to the smoke and develop a cough, dry eyes, and trouble breathing.  I personally would likely not survive living with a smoker.  So dispite being a submissive, I would not allow a smoker to reside with me.  I'd like to live and have a good quality of life.
 
zuma

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:27:15 PM   
cjenny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

If it's Master/slave relationship based on Old Guard standards.. The Master has complete control over what goes down regardless of what the slave says.  For the D/s relationships that Don't follow Old Guard standards... Watered Down D/s according to Old Guard.   This whole process should be negoatiated.  

Big difference between TPE and PPE... Total power verse Partial Power.  For any TPE Relationships.. the Dom/Master has ultimate say and the sub/slave must obey and follow.  A sub/slave the opposes a Master very much in a TPE is grounds for release and for the MASTER to seek another slave that will truely submit to a 24/7 TPE relationship.    PPE D/s relationships have a bit of on going negation.. however in time the D/s aspects grow stronger as the relationship progresses... 

Still since Slavery is not legal, and since even submissives have human rights! Well, this means they have the power to stop things, and place demands as a Equal.  Most will do this is if it's over a serious issue..  I'm not talking about how well the socks are folded or not.. LOL...


Yet according to the OP there is no relationship aside from friendship.
So IMO whether he is a master or a dom or a frog, if he is asked not to smoke cigarettes inside her home he shouldn't.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:30:02 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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If you value the health of your sub/slave, you will smoke outside and not inside the house.  Plus your house will smell better and will be cleaner.  The walls will not turn yellow and your clothes and belonging won't be covered with the yellow sticky smell.  I smoke and there is a difference between smoking inside and outside.   Plus, you'll smoke less if you smoke outside.  There are many pro's to smoking outside if you smoke.   However, in the end if you really want to smoke inside you will do so... Just be prepared for the ill effects it may or may not have on your relationship.   Somebody has to clean house, breath the same air as you do.

I smoke and I don't have a problem to smoking outside or smoking in some area that is seperate from the common living or sleeping areas.  Smoking is not a good thing, and this is coming from a smoker.   


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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:30:43 PM   
marieToo


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I've been a smoker and a non smoker.  When you don't smoke, it is very hard to take the smell and the eyes burning etc. 

I don't think it really falls under the 'total surrender' umbrella.  It's not about a preference, its about it being extremely hard to take physically, if you're not a smoker.

Nice to see you btw.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:32:31 PM   
hereyesruponyou


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While the sub/slave should not make rules for her Master.... Is it not also true that it is the Master's obligation to care for her as well as himself so he can be there for her? I would think you would want to protect her from your nasty habit....this habit that controls you...who is the real Dom here?

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:32:43 PM   
SirMGD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Sorry, your domliness does not mean that her health should be compromised. Second hand smoke is a known health hazard. If she has any other breathing problems such as asthma, allergies etc then by insisting on smoking inside the house you could be deliberately harming her.




quote:

If I ever did smoke in your house, it would be only because I knew you wanted me to, because you'd accepted me, unconditionally. because i'd made you so happy, you wanted to do something, anything, to make me feel comfortable, and I'd know you didn't mind, because you said you didn't.
 

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:35:54 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


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i cannot handle anyone who smokes near or around me which makes my job as a concert  reviewer sometimes very difficult. it's not great coming home after a long night smelling at 30 to 40 packs of cigarettes ...there are times when my eyes water heavily and/or i cannot breathe (i carry my inhalers with me) due to my chronic bronchitis. if you were my friend and Dom, i would ask you to smoke outside ...and as my friend and Dom, you should respect my request and my health

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 6/4/2007 5:38:01 PM >


_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...


...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:36:27 PM   
bandit25


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Yeah, I don't see it falling under the D/s umbrella either.  I KNOW how hard it is to quit smoking.  I also know, that for some, they cannot abide cigarette smoke once they have quit.  It's a health issue.  Slave or sub, Master or Dom, this can be and often is a life or death issue. 
On the other hand, we can come at it from the point of view that the slaves primary edict is to protect Master's property...even if it means protecting herself against his cigarette smoke.

(in reply to marieToo)
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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:39:56 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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To me, smoking isn't a deal breaker. I don't, and would rather She didn't, ut I would not date someone due to it. having said that, there certainly are things, either healthwise or others, that if I felt strongly enough would need to be set out before a relationship couold continue.

I don't think it's unsubmissive to want to be healthy in that vein. Or to require an hour a day to lift and go to the gym, if that is part of the way that you keep healthy.


_____________________________

Strong for all, weak for one

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:40:17 PM   
SirMGD


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Now THAT made sense Bandit25
Thank you.

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:41:40 PM   
bandit25


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My pleasure and I agree with marie...it's good to see you back!

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:42:05 PM   
colouredin


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I think everyopne has there limits, be those in terms of sex, punishment or life in general. The implication that a true sub shouldnt have these seems rather strange, after all we are all first and foremost human beings. I am a smoker myself, but i would never smoke in someone elses house or even my own its just courtasy (it takes five minuites to pop outside and have one) seems like a rather fruitless argument to me. 

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:44:48 PM   
Lashra


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Smoke gives me migraine headaches hence, no smoking around me. I avoid it all costs and do not allow it in my home, in my autos or inside of my business. I would never take on a sub/slave who smoked.

I can understand a sub taking  a stance such as this, its not ball busting ,its taking care of ones ownself and perhaps someone s/he cares about. Also most women DO care about smells, more so then men just fyi.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:46:14 PM   
LafayetteLady


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I smoke.  At this time I choose not to quit.  Therefore, I will not develop a relationship with someone who says I must quit.  It is a non-negotiable point just as others are.  How do I deal with it?  The men that I am currently speaking with are also smokers.  It is now a non-issue.

As for the "in the house" issue.  To me, it isn't about health.  I don't think that the OP was looking to open a debate on the studies for smoking.  It was more a matter of who has the right to demand to smoke or not. 

If someone comes to my house, they are going to have to deal with the fact that I smoke in my house.  If I go to someone else's house (or even ride in their car) and they do not smoke in those places, I don't smoke there.  It isn't a matter of domination or submission.  It is a matter of courtesy and respect for the host/hostess of the home you are in.

If I didn't smoke in my house and my partner wanted to smoke in the house the answer would be no.  As long as it is MY house and I am paying the bills, I have say so over certain activities in my house.  If a "master" said he was going to piss on YOUR brand new carpet, that YOU paid for, just because he was "master" and had the right to do it, would you let him?  I don't think so.

In the case of a mutually owned home, I would think and hope that these issues had long since been worked out before buying the place.

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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/4/2007 5:50:40 PM   
MamaDomme


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I am a smoker.  That being said, I will now say that I am a POLITE smoker.  I never infringe on another with my habit.  I do smoke in my home but I only have my grown daughter (also a smoker) living with me.  I do not smoke around non-smokers if it bothers them-- whether they be sub, Dom/me, or fellow co-workers.

I smoke in my car with the window down, and never if there is a non-smoker riding with me.

I also should own stock in Febreeze with as much as I use the stuff!

(in reply to SirMGD)
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