RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 2:42:22 PM

bliss1

Posts: 497
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline

Although I'm not Domme - I do have a power position with my family.

I have found this wiccan crede one that I live by and it helps me when making a power choice of any kind.
"Do what thy will, but harm none."

This is so much more that just being ethical with your spells and charms - but it is a motto for living life. At least for me.

_____________________________

Witch before, during, and after my coffee.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Post #: 21

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 3:24:43 PM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

I agree totally Citizen Cane. The dominant partner ought to be able to look after their own needs. The submissive partner may or may not be able to look after their own needs. The dominants first priority is to make sure that the relationship works. Every other relationship that the two have has to take second place to the relationship. Even young children. Presumably a happy parent is a better parent.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Post #: 22

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 3:39:38 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1

I agree totally Citizen Cane. The dominant partner ought to be able to look after their own needs. The submissive partner may or may not be able to look after their own needs. The dominants first priority is to make sure that the relationship works. Every other relationship that the two have has to take second place to the relationship. Even young children. Presumably a happy parent is a better parent.

Disagree.

The dominant partner should be able to look after their own needs.

The submissive partner should be able to look after their own needs as well - yet chose to defer to their partner.

And when children are involved it is them that come first - always. Any healthy relationship places children above all other needs and wants.

Peace

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to lateralist1)

Post #: 23

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 3:54:40 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

If we are talking about a relationship, which is how the question was posed, it seems to me the best interests of the Master/Dom (individually) and the best interests of the slave/sub (individually) are not on the table anymore. The issue of ethics and responsibility in the context of a relationship that people want to continue is a question of what is in the best interests of the relationship.

Be well,

Kirata

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/14/2007 4:04:04 PM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 24

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 3:57:19 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Any healthy relationship places children above all other needs and wants.

Accepting your opinion that I live in an unhealthy relationship I see this resulting in an ultimately unhappy or at least frustrating life not only for you and your partner but for the children as well.

Placing children above all means that you're making decision favoring them over your relationship. What happens when they are adults? Does your commitment to them place the responsibility of your happiness and contentment on them? At that point would you then put your relationship on a priority status should your partner agree to wait for that passage of time? What if, realizing how good it is/was, and finding no similar reliable emotional, physical, economic, "you come first" benefactor they never leave or rebound? At that point would you try to make them function outside your influence, 18, 21, 25, 40?

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 25

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 4:16:00 PM

Tristan

Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline

Great question that I think is often ignored. I don't bring a separate set of morals into a D/s relationship. I always seem to have a sense of what's right or wrong without thinking much about morals.

I'm very comfortable taking control, and my partners have been comfortable giving control. I see this as more of a relationship or division of labor than anything else.

My main concern is always looking out for my partner's best interest even if it's not always my best interest. I would only be in a relationship with someone who valued my best interest. Yes, there can be conflicts, but those conflicts can be solved in the same way any other conflict is solved in a vanilla relationship.

I see problems in D/s relationships when one person is overly selfish or has "issues", but neither of these are unique to the lifestyle. I think a common problem is a D/s relationship is a dominant using his or her "power" to become a bully thinking only of his or her own needs. It can be easy to justify your demands when you take on the role of dominant. Doing this is one of my greatest fears as a dominant. I think this fear also keeps me fairly grounded.

Tristan

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 26

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 4:20:39 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

y

Edited....to allow me to throw things at the computer for losing my great answer....

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 6/14/2007 4:22:37 PM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 27

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 4:47:12 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Good point Merc.

When I post children - I should really put a more detailed response.

Maybe children is a misleading word - maybe something more correct would be 'dependants'. That even includes animals!

Healthy relationship isn't just putting the 'dependants' first - however their well being isn't any less of a factor in a relationship but a part of it. If you can't put a dependant first - then don't have dependants.

quote:

I see this resulting in an ultimately unhappy or at least frustrating life not only for you and your partner but for the children as well.

Why? Because their welfare comes first - before mine? There welfare is a part of who I am. What is so hard to understand about that? It is a continuous circle - which I believe is what you fail to see in my comment - not a straight line. My welfare is their welfare.

quote:

Placing children above all means that you're making decision favoring them over your relationship.

Nope. Considering them and placing their welfare above decisions is making your own decision. If having a child means making your relationship less important then the answer is simple. Don't have them.

quote:

Does your commitment to them place the responsibility of your happiness and contentment on them?

Nope. It means I accept that I can or cannot be responsible for them. Again - wouldn't have them if the latter was the case.

quote:

At that point would you then put your relationship on a priority status should your partner agree to wait for that passage of time?

I am not entirely sure what you mean about this question - you will have to elabourate for me to respond.

quote:

What if, realizing how good it is/was, and finding no similar reliable emotional, physical, economic, "you come first" benefactor they never leave or rebound?

There is a difference between putting someone first - and teaching them responsibility. The same question could be asked of a slave.

quote:

At that point would you try to make them function outside your influence, 18, 21, 25, 40?

For me? I am of the opinion that you don't 'make' anyone do anything - but I would answer that I taught them to function outside my influence from the moment they were both born (and eventually comprehend). The only influence I would hope to have influenced them with is the ability and their own capability to be true to themselves. That it is important to live their life just as I love mine. They have their independance. They have their own beliefs and free will (in a non religious way). They understand that their actions hold consequences and that they are responsible for themselves. But whilst they are under my care, and my dominance - which is what it is - I have a responsibility to care for them. If they decided to walk away and live elsewhere, they can. Would it hurt me emotionally? Damn fuck it would - but it would be their choice.

(and when I use the word 'you' I am talking from my perspective and wouldn't press this on anyone, its my opinion)

You don't have children to give up on them - you don't have children to make them feel some sort of responsibility towards or for them to feel responsible for you in your old age - in any age. You don't have children to judge them or influence their decisions. You have children because you are selfish and decide you are responsible enough to love, care and nurture them - and to be responsible until they want you to let go. When they want that, you do and watch them fly... and sometimes they will catch a horrid air current and hit glass walls and you let them know you are still there - then you watch them fly off again in another direction - and watch their freedom and fucking cry coz your so happy.

And then you realise that your responsibility as a parent, is never complete.

Peace

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/14/2007 4:59:38 PM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 28

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 4:50:21 PM

Joseff

Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline

My best response comes from one more experianced than I. He said simply that if he is expected to have total authority, then he must also take total responsibility.
Joseff

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 29

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 6:29:42 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

For me, a big part of being an ethical Dominant is ensuring that a submissive does not abrogate to me authority that should rightfully be theirs. For me, consent is a key part of the D/s relationship. I cannot therefore feel comfortable that I have a submissive's full consent unless they themselves are fully informed about what they are consenting to. I therefore feel it is up to me to establish a climate where a submissive can freely ask questions, give feedback and feel that their contribution to the D/s dynamic is valued. Life is in constant flux. Agreements need to be reviewed from time to time, even if the end result is to leave them unchanged. For the same reason, I feel that I have an on going ethical responsibility to continue to educate myself, so that I can continue to be as self aware as possible, and to encourage this in those I play with. If there is no growth, there can only be atrophy. This is why discussion groups such as this one are so valuable . They challenge everyone to think, to be aware, and to open themselves to growth.
:))
LH

_____________________________

"BDSM is not an excuse for bad manners."

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Post #: 30

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 6:49:05 PM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1

I agree totally Citizen Cane. The dominant partner ought to be able to look after their own needs. The submissive partner may or may not be able to look after their own needs. The dominants first priority is to make sure that the relationship works. Every other relationship that the two have has to take second place to the relationship. Even young children. Presumably a happy parent is a better parent.

Disagree.
The dominant partner should be able to look after their own needs.
The submissive partner should be able to look after their own needs as well - yet chose to defer to their partner.
And when children are involved it is them that come first - always. Any healthy relationship places children above all other needs and wants.

Peace
the.dark.

Dark,
I completely disagree with you. Many people make the mistake of giving to their children at the expense of the marriage. The real answer is to give to the marriage. Ultimately this is what will benefit our children the most.

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 31

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 6:58:00 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Any healthy relationship places children above all other needs and wants.

Accepting your opinion that I live in an unhealthy relationship I see this resulting in an ultimately unhappy or at least frustrating life not only for you and your partner but for the children as well.

Placing children above all means that you're making decision favoring them over your relationship. What happens when they are adults? Does your commitment to them place the responsibility of your happiness and contentment on them? At that point would you then put your relationship on a priority status should your partner agree to wait for that passage of time? What if, realizing how good it is/was, and finding no similar reliable emotional, physical, economic, "you come first" benefactor they never leave or rebound? At that point would you try to make them function outside your influence, 18, 21, 25, 40?

I agree.

I have never understood the "what about the children" cry and the idea of building the entire family around them. I mean, weren't you a couple before them? I think the core of the family is the couple, if they aren't stable and aren't happy nothing else is going to run smoothly or be happy.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 32

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 8:23:02 PM

RealDom69

Posts: 64
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline

Well this could be a hard question but it's not too hard for me as I am married to my submisive and any decisions made affect us both.. having said that when we play I put a collar on her and when we finish it comes off, and when the play collar is off her life is hers and she makes her own decisions, and the same principal applies when i'm playing casually... I only control the BDSM .. the rest is not my life.. it's hard enough being responsible for my own life .. one is enough.

:))

Johnny reble

_____________________________

"Winners make things happen; losers let things happen."

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 33

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 8:25:50 PM

aurora31

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/18/2005
Status: offline

Okay on the children vs relationship thing I believe it is a matter of balance. I believe that you should put the children first but that does not always mean you cater to them, it is a matter of priorities. An example do you attend your child's graduation ( from what ever, grade school, high school, scouts, camp etc etc etc) or do you take a weekend to yourself. Most here I think would agree the graduation comes first. But if your child wants to have an impromptu sleep over and you have a weekend away planned then the weekend away is probably going to win out. Part of raising a well rounded independent adult is telling them no as kids and teaching them to deal with disappointment. To me this is putting the child first but not at the expense of the relationship.

aurora

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 34

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 8:42:38 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

For me this is why it's so important to understand who the person is and who they want to BECOME. If you have that as your guide, then you can at least try very hard to keep your choices in line with that path.

And stay true to yourself.

Call that undomly or subissive in control if you want- I think it's just a matter of good healthy real life dynamics. Authority is not wielded in a vacuum :)

In total agreement....And I imagine that in both Mercs and Archers case that they didn't meet and get to know their beloved slaves(not being satirical) in a vacuum either.....I really dislike the talk of the Dom holding all control and accountability....Cause at the end of the day if you start acting like the biggest dick in the world at some point you probably will find yourself slaveless rather quickly. Just like every other type of relationship, with a few twists, it still is a two way street. Ethics rarely change.

_____________________________

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 35

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 8:46:47 PM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

There are two sides to this duality. The first side is outside in. That is the one you seem to assume, that external control and surrender mirrors internal control and surrender. In that context, the one who surrenders is a helpless hapless heap of jello, to be manipulated at will -- taken from. This is quite typical of the narcissist and the dependent. As with co-dependency, it is a long slow spiral downwards. The taking narcissist should be responsible, but ultimately lacks the deeper capacity to do anything but take that which energizes his/her ego. While there is a duty to be responsible, it is never fully fulfilled.

The second perspective is inside out. In that context, every person ultimately accepts personal responsibility for themself. They make their choice from a place of awareness, strength, and freedom. The interaction is not one of giving to get, but of giving or sharing simply because the unconditional openness is to the inner door to the light of their own heart. A person who shares themself from such self confidence, strength, awareness, self will, free choice -- they already know how to assert their limits when necessary. They are not dependent upon another to protect their boundaries. They share their heart and everything else because they make that free choice, not because they are compelled to do so. Such a person who has MASTERED SURRENDER does not need another to assume their own personal responsibility.

(in reply to aurora31)

Post #: 36

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/14/2007 11:49:46 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

Hat's off to aldompdx ... I like the second perspective. i may submit to Master but that doesn't mean i am weak or lack personal responsibility. It means i surrender my power to Him willingly in full trust that He is ethical about how He will use that power. i have to be responsible in order to serve Him well. And i serve Him not only in actions such as cooking His meals ... i serve Him with my intelligence and life experience and ability to earn money in my career and social skills and in countless other ways. He has not made me less of a person, He has made me more ... and that to me, is the essence of an ethical Dom. It's One who seeks to enhance the one He is with, who makes decisions with the interests of both people in mind.

That said (and thanks MadRabbit for an excellent thread), I'm almost hesitate to wade into the UMs debate as I only have furkids and not real ones. However, Master and I both consider the physical and mental wellbeing of the furkids very important but We would not put them FIRST as in above Us. If it came to an accident and both myself and the dog were equally injured, i KNOW who Master would take to the hospital first! (On the other hand, if i just had a grazed knee and the dog was pumping out blood, Master would ask if i was OK enough for Us to go to the vet first!). And from being close with many friends with real UMs, I have not seen any real good come of that in the way dark describes. The relationship is the core, it is the strength, and kids are never happier than when they know they are part of a secure world that has real boundaries for them. And part of those essential boundaries is knowing who rules the roost ... and that it isn't them! I see too many people scared to say no to their children ... they are enslaved to mini-dictators! The worst I think I've ever heard of, was the mother who called the nurse helpline saying her 6 month old baby was sick ... the nurse asked what his temp was ... and the mother said "I don't know! HE WON'T LET ME take his temp!!" For heaven's sake, she's given over her power to a 6 month old infant! Now that's SCARY! (My friend was the nurse who gave her some rather blunt advice!). So if I had UMs, they would come the closest second, but Our relationship would come first.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 37

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 1:32:58 AM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Ethical behavior doesn't allow for D/s, and especially not M/s! We violate ethics in adopting this lifestyle, at least in the view of larger society.

In our own society? It depends where you define us. Still, I feel that the mature among us allow for people to follow their desires as they will, so long as it does not largely contradict the consent of another.

This is to say, a Master wants to make the big decisions for his slave, and she wants to allow him to make them? Or, a Dom doesn't want to make big decisions for a sub, and the sub wants to be able to make them, though perhaps with his guidance? Sure, whatever works. It's all fine.

Rabbit, I feel you often try to put things into a little cage of what's right and wrong instead of accepting the possibilties that are open to people. I know you're still hostile to those you see as "[self-proclaimed] uber domina[nts]", and I'm certain I'm among them, though I'd still ask you to see this with a level head. It's just, a dynamic is what people in it want. What works. In adopting this life, we have already decided to vioate the standards of society; why should we retrogress into such petty concerns now?

From past talks, I know you're not really into absolute dominance. You like to give your sub a say in things. You like her to act by her own will, with you making some decisions, and her making others for herself. That's really fine. I can't see a single problem with it. And it's not any less, nor should you feel it's challenged, because some people do make the decisions for their slaves on a more consistent basis. It's just what the people want, you know?

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 38

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 2:37:38 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
Dark,
I completely disagree with you. Many people make the mistake of giving to their children at the expense of the marriage. The real answer is to give to the marriage. Ultimately this is what will benefit our children the most.

I understand your point, however children do not ask to be created. If you can't have a good marriage and have children, don't have children - it is that simple.

If you are a dominant in a poly relationship that includes numerous s-types, you don't favour one over the other if you want harmony and productivity - you deal with everyone on the same level unless it is pre- agreed that there is one s-type over another.

When you have children, they don't get to make that agreement. If you are in a relationship and you decide to have children - as long as they are your dependents you do what is right for them - otherwise you are acting irresponsibly in having them in the first place. You have a child, you are accepting responsibility for that dependant... you can't selfishly want to procreate only to go - 'well, this will make me/us happy, fuck what happens to them'. Thats like saying a dominant taking on a submissive then changing his mind later on and just doing what is best for him is completely ok if the s-type hasnt been prewarned and doesn't agree with it.

You can't handle the responsibility of having to care for someone - don't do it then. If you can't handle having the responsibility and may have to make sacrifices and putting others above yourself on occasion - don't enter any relationship - and that includes a parent/child one.

Peace

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/15/2007 2:39:53 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 39

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 2:39:46 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

What I feel has been missing from these threads where people talk about how much responsibility they have or how they have authority over everything is the question of ethics.

You rang?

quote:

What ethical guidelines do you follow when making decisions that can have a significant impact on the direction and course of your slave/submissives life?

I stick by the terms of consent "first and last and always".

Apart from that, my regular ethics apply with no modifications.

My nephandi, as agreed on and desired by both, has significant autonomy. A second slave, if we find one, would not have the same level of autonomy, unless it happened to work out as a poly arrangement (in the romantic-attachment sense of the word).

Regular ethics are a matter of optimization. You have various concerns, then you try to balance them by optimizing for something. In the case of nephandi, the optimization is aimed at fostering her growth, safety and happiness, alongside her utility to me. In the case of a second slave without romantic attachment, utility would be the sole focus of the optimization, with everything else following from that.

quote:

Illegial actions?

That's a matter of safety / health. Apart from that, this point does not factor into the equation.

quote:

If the slave or submissive has children, decisions that could affect how they are raised?

She does not, and will not. Same goes for anyone else in the household. I will schedule a vasectomy for myself when my health is stable again, and we're looking for a doctor who approves of her having her tubes tied at her age (fairly rare around here, it's like a child cult, seen from the outside).

Should pregnancy occur, the child will be given up for adoption.

For a second slave, the option might remain to be released instead.

quote:

What are the odds of getting threw this thread without righteous indignation over disagreement in other's ethics?

I was going to go with slim-to-none, but I see someone already got the "none" down.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 40

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109