Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 2:10:15 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

What if your master wants you to be with him at that time or doing a household chore?


What if my Master wants me to be doing a household CHORE?

I have a plaque that's hanging in my living room. It's been there since my girlfriend gave it to me when my first child was born. It says:

Excuse this House

Some houses try to hide the fact that children shelter there.

Ours boasts of it quite openly.
The signs are everywhere
For smears are on the windows
Little smudges on the doors;
I should apologize I guess for toys strewn on the floor

But I sat down with the children
And we played and laughed and read;
And if the doorbell doesn't shine,
Their eyes will shine instead.

For when at times I'm forced to choose
The one job or the other;
I want to be a housewife
But first I'll be a mother.
-Author Unknown

There is no choice to be made.
I belong to a Master who believes about children the way I do.
There's always time to do all that other stuff and the day that sweeping the floor takes precedence over checking out the fish my son - or Master - caught is the day I really need to re-examine my priorities.

juliet


Good. I'm glad you know where your priorities lay.

I'm also glad your master shares your priorities. You have choosen well then for yourself. Sometimes people don't.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 3:04:59 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I should have put 'general' or 'fast reply' so it wasn't associated to you.  My apology.


Not a problem, and nothing to apologize for.

I should have posted a bit more tactfully in the first place, anyway.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 3:30:09 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blkmastersgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
When my parents had time or income they would come to a play, a academic bowl, or a band/chorus event.


If I am honored to have Master's child, I will be at each event my child participates in. I can't wait. My job will be to raise my Master's child in the best way I can. An academic or sports event will see me there.


What if your master wants you to be with him at that time or doing a household chore?


I can honestly say from experience that I would do what I was told.  Something happened today and if I was not a slave, I would be on a plane right now flying across the country.  However, he made the decision that I would stay here, so I am here waiting and trusting him that he knows what is best for us.  It is a very difficult thing for me to have to do, but it is his will and that comes first.

Knight's Kyra


< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 6/15/2007 3:32:47 PM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 3:49:33 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I wasn't commenting about you in particular but this fetish the culture has for the "think about the children" crap I hear every day.


I should note that the same was the case for my post.

It probably came across as somewhat personal, while it was really meant to be general in this way.

quote:

I think you are completely correct: if you can't or don't want to spend the time required to raise healthy offspring, don't have them.


Definitely. That's also why me and neph both want to be sterilized.

If we have offspring, there's a 70% chance it will have a pervasive developmental disorder, and an independent risk of tons of other things, as well. And while I'm confident that we could be good parents to such a child at the right time during our lives, I also know that this is not that time, nor would the sacrifices involved in parenthood (particularly for such a child) be worth it for us.

Should we ever desire a child, there are plenty of kids out there to adopt, and neither of us has that special "attachment response". We don't "fall in love" in any way; any and all relationships grow on us. We would attach no quicker to biological progeny, nor would an adopted child feel any less like our child.

In the mean time, my sister has one that we can lavish as much attention on as we like with no downsides.

quote:

I've college students who grew up in these "offspring centered" families and frankly I'm not impressed at all at their lack of even basic coping skills.


~nod~

I was raised in a clearly offspring-centered family, but that was kind of required as well, given my "issues" growing up (ADHD predominantly inattentive type, major depressive disorder, PDD/NOS). However, I would say that my father has gone the distance for my mother all the way, also when she was ill (PTSD, OCD, GAD, PAD, SAD, MDD), so there has been some element of balance.

In my case, it aided in acquiring coping skills, as I always had a "safety net" when I tried to stand on my own. To use bicycles as an analogy, it was not so much in the sense of training wheels, as in the sense of wearing a helmet.

I have also seen cases where "regular" kids were raised this way, and that doesn't seem to work out.

quote:

People wonder about divorce all the time and some complain about feminism as a cause. I think this offspring-first attitude has more to do with it. [...] The biggest chance is the attitude toward offspring.


Very astute observation, and now that I've thought about it, I would agree with it.

The previous generation attached more to each other; the present generation attaches more to the offspring.

This might work, but it probably requires a different approach and a different skillset from the parents. Parents in such a relationship could probably learn a lot from people in poly relationships, as modern relationships (IMO) resemble poly ones a lot more than they do the regular ones of the previous generation.

In the general case, however, I think a lasting relationship requires a commitment to the partner, with the offspring being the "nice addition" to the relationship between the parents, rather than the "substitute" that suddenly takes precedence.

A lot of ground to cover here; perhaps a seperate thread is in order?

quote:

So they demand mechanical devices, laws, censorship, and that other conform to their idea of proper all so they can hide those offspring from reality and avoid the responsibility of teaching them to be adults.


Amen.

It has been my observation, from watching parents and children across generations, that there is a definite transition to making the children a public responsibility, rather than a responsibility of the parents, and I resent that.

I have made a conscious choice, and I do not appreciate others thrusting theirs upon me.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 4:22:04 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I think we all agree kids need boundaries and that growing up in a household where mother and father (of whatever sort) love and nurture each other and model good behavior is best.


Indeed.

That is a very important point, I think.

The greatest gift we can offer our children is love.

I'm not talking about our own love for them, but the fact that they will grow up to find a life partner to love.

And by providing them with a model for a successful relationship between two adults who love each other deeply, and are committed to their love for each other, we give them a better chance at finding an equally deep and strong love for someone else.

Our children must learn to be independent, to stand on their own, and to make their own lives. In order for them to do that, we must (IMO) make it clear that we are raising them, providing for them, and that we care for them, but also make it equally clear that we are not their lives, nor do we want to be. We provide role models, and attempt to ease them into their own adult lives, but shouldn't (IMO) make them our top priority.

Kids are more observant than they get credit for. If there are problems in their parents' relationship, they will frequently blame themselves, which is almost, but not quite, right. That is to say that the kids are the reason, but the parents are the ones who made that choice. Unfortunately, the kids perceptiveness isn't usually coupled with the emotional maturity to understand this distinction.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 4:38:18 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I drove myself or walked. It was my choice to be in them and therefore my responsibiity to get there, practice and do what needed to be done.


My pa would drive me if he wasn't doing anything at the time, which I think is good.

By contrast, if he was busy, I'd have to get there on my own or move my own schedule.

quote:

I never expected my parents to come to every event I was part of. [...] Since it was my choice to do these things, I think it is only fair that it was my parents choice to attend or not, to finance or not.


My parents would try to drop by just often enough to have an idea what I was doing.

But they didn't get involved in the activities, as such.

Which was fine by me.

Finances is a different matter; I couldn't legally work until a certain age, and I didn't have pocket money in the usual sense. Instead, it would be part of the family finances, which gave me a better feel for that, and also made me think carefully about what I asked them for, as I knew anything I asked for would be coming out of something they wanted. I also knew that they'd want to help out, and didn't want them to feel bad about saying "no", so I said "no" to myself.

Either model is valid, I think.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 5:39:17 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

So...the last few weeks I have been witness to quite a lot of threads and posts centering around dominance and responsibility, the absolute authority certain Masters/dominants have, and proclamations to uber dominance because one does what they want without regard to the will of the slave/submissive.

What I feal has been missing from these threads where people talk about how much responsibility they have or how they have authority over everything is the question of ethics.

So I have a few questions I would like to propose for discussion by those who have the authority and power. Of course, anyone can post, but personally, I am looking for first hand information from the wielders of power themselves.

What ethical guidelines do you follow when making decisions that can have a significant impact on the direction and course of your slave/submissives life?


I've answered on this thread already but now I want to come back to the OP and try again, given what happened to my original post (let's not discuss my little finger and delete keys, alright?).

There are lots of things I try to live by but when boiled down to the main ones, they are:

1. Do No Harm: It seems like such a simple thing for a dominant to remember. But there again, you would think it would make sense for a health care provider too and yet...it WAS part of my oath. For me, it means that I do not do anything that would result in irreparable harm to anyone, whether it be physical and/or mental and/or spiritual as the main ones with a host of smaller ones (financial, for example.

2. Do Nothing to Make Me Ashamed to Look at Myself in the Mirror Each Day: Yes, there are times when I can look at myself in the mirror and not be 100% proud of the guy looking back but there have been very few times when I really could not stand to look at myself because of what I had done.

3. Continue to grow and to help those around you do the same: I am ever-thankful that my parents gave me a love for learning and a healthy respect for what I know and what I don't know. How can I inspire my submissive, my children, my patients to grow if all they ever see of me is a blob sitting and doing nothing other than giving orders to others?

4. If you want love, then give it. You may not always get it back in the same way but your heart will be wealthier for what you gave.

I'm not talking about decisions over areas such as clothing preferences and how much milk to put in the cup of coffee, but rather big issues that can greatly influence someone's life long after a relationship comes to an end...

Decisions that influence...

Family relationships?

There is no way that I would try to get into the middle of family dynamics except in such cases where I felt either that my submissive was being taken advantage of or that she was being hurt by cruel or thoughtless or careless actions of someone within her own family. Even then, I would speak to her first to determine her feelings on the matter and whether or not she wanted to face the possible fallout that confrontation with the offending family member would bring. If she was finally ready to do so, then I would encourage her to stand up for herself while being supportive of her stance and advise as to how it might best be done. Only if asked, would I be the one to speak up. One thing I have learned in my 52 years is this....no one thinks their family is perfect...until you agree too readily with their complaints to you about them. While a cliche, it often holds true and I have found that it is best overall to keep it at least in the back of my mind.

Personal relationships such as friends?

Again, a difficult one because this is really something that can often be situational or it can be an ongoing thing. If I felt that my submissive's relationship with another was affecting her submission, affecting our relationship or was damaging to her herself, I would be inclined to discuss it with her and make clear my feelings. If she chose to go along with the friend when her relationship with that friend is clearly a danger of any sort to herself or to us, then I would forbid it. If she chooses to disregard that...as is her right...then I also have the right to recognize that it may be time for me to go.

Career decisions?

I have stated before that I fully expect my submissive to be prepared to work. I would advise and guide as asked for though unless it interferes with her obligations to me and to the relationship, her career is her careet.

Pursuit of education decisions?

Same answer as above, except that cost is now a factor. The cost of said education and how it would be paid for is something that we would both discuss since in the long run, it is going to affect both of us.

Illegial actions?

Given the illegality of wiitwd in most, if not all, states I think we are already doing enough things outside the law, thank you.

If the slave or submissive has children, decisions that could affect how they are raised?

I've given my feelings about certain aspects of children in other areas on this thread and in other threads. The age of the ums comes into play as does the amount of involvement of the children's father. I would never attempt to undermine another man's authority over his children unless I saw his actions as harmful or potentially harmful to his children or my partner. I would expect her to give an eye as to how they are to be provided for in the future and to be able to prioritize her children along with her job along with the rest of her family along with me. I would advise as asked, as I did with my second submissive who had 3 children ranging in age from 2 - 10 when we first met. There has to be a balance. If our relationship is happy and full of caring and kindness and love, then that passes on to those around us.
My own children are very important to me. They always knew they were but they also knew they were not the only parts of Dad's life. They knew that they were the most important people in the world to me and they also knew that they were not the most important people in the world to me. In other words, they knew that they had a place but that it was not always the first place when their needs did not match up to the needs of another area of my life. I must have done something right...my oldest um came to me first when she became pregnant and my youngest um came to me when she decided to open up about what a trusted family member had done.

These are issues, in my eyes, that really put convictions and a dominant or Master's sense of responsibility to the test, since often the decisions that are for the best interest of the slave/submissive arent always what we personally want or wish.

Of course, the question of ethics is a vast discussion and at the end of the day, people can only decide what they thing is best in regards to the situation that is right in front of them.

I'm just curious to know what are some of the ethical guidelines you hold yourself to with your authority.

Finnally, I have one last question...

What are the odds of getting threw this thread without righteous indignation over disagreement in other's ethics?


Given the responses to a couple of my other posts and the responses to several other people's posts....I would say that your question has already been answered with a resounding "None".

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 5:57:57 PM   
xxxWENCHxxx


Posts: 45
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Finnally, I have one last question...

What are the odds of getting threw this thread without righteous indignation over disagreement in other's ethics?




Thank you for adding that last question .... very refreshing to have it so eloquently put ...

_____________________________

"Out of my mind. Back in 5 minutes."

DEJA MOO ... the feeling Y/you've heard this bull somewhere before !!!

"Chaos, panic and disorder .... my work here is done."

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 7:13:50 PM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Your first statement though gives a clue about where it goes wrong. It is a matter of balance and prioritizing the importance of each thing that comes up. Many women do not seem themselves as catering to their children when they put their children first and yet, that is exactly what they do. For some, there is always a reason why THIS baseball game of Bobby's (# 20 in the last month, all 19 previously were also attended) is more important than spending the evening with your partner even though in the last month, you have spent maybe only the half hour morning coffee time with him. To look at something more serious and use your own example...how many damn "moments of importance" are there now? How many graduations are there now? From preschool (going to kindergarten next year), kindergarten (going to "real" school next year), from 5th grade (going to middle school next year), and on and on. Maybe its just me...but I seem to remember going through school and experiencing a lot fewer moments of importance and I came out just fine. Is it really that important, when you are in the middle of a serious discussion with your partner, to jump up and console Sally because her "best friend in the whole world" told her that Sally "stinks"? It may sound funny but I would be willing to bet that most of us on here HAVE seen examples of that in our own lives...and have seen the failed relationships that resulted.

And if it was all the partners' fault for "just not getting it", then why would you not just see relationship experts just dismiss their concerns and tell them they are "selfish" or immature themselves? Instead, oftentimes you see the experts confronting the woman who gives "all" for her children, who places the children "first" and ignores her relationship or expects her partner to understand.


Guess I'm one of those catering and smothering moms. My son's in wrestling and football. He's been doing this since he was in 7th grade for wrestling and last year it was football and wrestling. I just raced home from work this morning to take him to football camp at his high school. On Monday, I'll be taking him every day to wrestling camp at that same high school. As soon as that's over, he'll be going back to football camp and weight training.

My daughter was in band when she was in high school. She is a member of an AYSO VIP soccer team (for those with disabilities).

When my oldest was in high school, he was on the tennis team and as a youngster, played soccer.

I was the one who took the oldest to soccer practice twice a week, cub scouts, catechism classes and everything else that he was involved with. I went to every tennis and soccer game he had - never missed one.

I tell the other two that Jerome Bettis' mother is my hero. She attended every game her son ever played - from his first ever football game to his last pro ball game. She never missed one. I have never missed one of my kids' games, concerts, parent teacher conferences or graduations. I have no intention of missing one of their games, concerts, parent teacher conferences or graduations.

And know what? My son, in full pads walked off the field at the end of his last game and I was right there with all the other catering and smothering mothers and fathers cheering our kids. He walked right up to me and in front of all the other players and parents gave me a huge hug and thanked me for always being there for him. That was more than worth the rush from school I did every week to go pick up his sister and make sure I was there for the game. My Master makes it to the games he can. And he drives nearly two and a half hours from work to do this. I cheer on my son's friends whose parents are unable to make it. I'm THERE for the people I care for in my life - even if they aren't my children. It's important to me.

Guess my son has a smothering and catering big brother too because his brother came home every week from college to attend his brother's games as well. Sometimes he'd come in, watch the game, give me a hug and a kiss and head on back to college. Sometimes we'd go out to dinner. Sometimes he'd stay home for the night.

His sister also had to "withstand" his smothering and catering because he came home for her concerts as well. He came home just to go with her to Special Olympics to take pictures of her events. He does this and still manages to do well in college an hour and a half away from home.

Come to think of it, when I've had special occassions I've been a part of, they've come home for that as well.

In addition to his own children, my Master is godfather to a mere 29 other children that he treats as his own. They all call him different variations of "dad." He never misses his children's events - and his children are grown. The events are more adult in nature now. Instead of watching his son perform in his school play, he goes to the ones his son directs - every SINGLE one his son directs. He has a grandchild. He's there for him too. He's taken time off of work to drive a god-daughter who needed care in another state to get her there. He's the one they call when someone's been hurt or is in the hospital and he is ALWAYS there.

Contrary to what people like to believe, we somehow manage through it all to have a strong and sustaining relationship. Sometimes we have to divide time into hours, not days, but we ALWAYS find the time. It doesn't HAVE to be one or the other. There don't HAVE to be choices in which someone loses. There just has to be a willingness to work around the responsibilities we have in order that everyone gets what they need.

It's not really all that complicated. It's our responsibility. It's our love. It's our lives.

Guess the bottom line for us is that THESE things are our most basic ethics. They are the things that everything else grows from. We take care of our own - and often those of others too if it's needed.

And I don't think we're any sort of angels. It's just what we do.

juliet


Juliet,
This just brought tears to my eyes.  How wonderful to have such a close, loving family.
I feel just the same.  I would never think of missing any of my kids games, plays, conferences, etc.. If they are there, so is their Dad and I.  This doesn't describe spoiling them in any way.  It describes a wonderfully supportive family.


_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 7:42:15 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I drove myself or walked. It was my choice to be in them and therefore my responsibiity to get there, practice and do what needed to be done.


My pa would drive me if he wasn't doing anything at the time, which I think is good.

By contrast, if he was busy, I'd have to get there on my own or move my own schedule.

quote:

I never expected my parents to come to every event I was part of. [...] Since it was my choice to do these things, I think it is only fair that it was my parents choice to attend or not, to finance or not.


My parents would try to drop by just often enough to have an idea what I was doing.

But they didn't get involved in the activities, as such.

Which was fine by me.

Finances is a different matter; I couldn't legally work until a certain age, and I didn't have pocket money in the usual sense. Instead, it would be part of the family finances, which gave me a better feel for that, and also made me think carefully about what I asked them for, as I knew anything I asked for would be coming out of something they wanted. I also knew that they'd want to help out, and didn't want them to feel bad about saying "no", so I said "no" to myself.

Either model is valid, I think.



I know lots of folks love to to think they are in the middle class . I heard a survey today that people will claim they are middle class with incomes ranging from $15,000 a year to over $100,000 a year.

I have no problem saying that I come from lower working class background. I remember a time when I knew (they didn't tell me but offspring are indeed observant) they were really hurting for money. I didn't get much of an allowance compared to my classmates but I held the few dollars my father gave me in my hand then I handed it back to him and said "I can find a way to make my own, Daddy. You need this more than me." It was one of the few times I saw my father cry.

I started babysitting for cash when I was ten. Then I worked at libraries and the pool as I got older.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 9:48:08 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

What are the odds of getting threw this thread without righteous indignation over disagreement in other's ethics?


In hindsight.... It would seem that the odds wasn't so good.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/15/2007 11:00:56 PM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		Ooooohhh putting in my own two cents before I read everyone else's two cents.  It just so happens I'm taking an ethics and law class for my MBA program right now; means nothing just interesting coincidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

So...the last few weeks I have been witness to quite a lot of threads and posts centering around dominance and responsibility, the absolute authority certain Masters/dominants have, and proclamations to uber dominance because one does what they want without regard to the will of the slave/submissive.

What I feal has been missing from these threads where people talk about how much responsibility they have or how they have authority over everything is the question of ethics.
 
So I have a few questions I would like to propose for discussion by those who have the authority and power. Of course, anyone can post, but personally, I am looking for first hand information from the wielders of power themselves.

What ethical guidelines do you follow when making decisions that can have a significant impact on the direction and course of your slave/submissives life?  It matters to me how Robert feels.  He needs to flourish and feel good in this relationship or it won't work.  I always will foster family ties, friendships, time away from me and the family, self improvement, education, and a healthy happy work life outside of my home.  As far as illegal actions go..I presume you don't mean our kinky sexual habits etc. that would have gotten us tossed in the town jail in the 1800's and are still on the books illegal.  So presuming you mean things likes stealing, fraud, etc.  I will not tolerate it, nor will I ask it.
 
In the grand scheme of things my moral code goes thusly:  I don't ask or expect people to do things I wouldn't do myself.  I learned this many years ago from my good ol' mom who is also a nurse.  She said as I started my first career job overseeing nursing assistants:  "Donna, there are a few things you always need to remember;  CYA (Cover Your Ass), if you don't chart it, you didn't do it and never ask your CNA to do something you wouldn't do yourself."  To this day I still hold the latter as my standard of ethical conduct for all of my relationships. 

I'm not talking about decisions over areas such as clothing preferences and how much milk to put in the cup of coffee, but rather big issues that can greatly influence someone's life long after a relationship comes to an end...

Decisions that influence...

Family relationships?
Personal relationships such as friends?
Career decisions?
Pursuit of education decisions?
Illegial actions?
If the slave or submissive has children, decisions that could affect how they are raised?

These are issues, in my eyes, that really put convictions and a dominant or Master's sense of responsibility to the test, since often the decisions that are for the best interest of the slave/submissive arent always what we personally want or wish.

Of course, the question of ethics is a vast discussion and at the end of the day, people can only decide what they thing is best in regards to the situation that is right in front of them.

I'm just curious to know what are some of the ethical guidelines you hold yourself to with your authority.

Finnally, I have one last question...

What are the odds of getting threw this thread without righteous indignation over disagreement in other's ethics?




_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/16/2007 3:07:40 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I know lots of folks love to to think they are in the middle class . I heard a survey today that people will claim they are middle class with incomes ranging from $15,000 a year to over $100,000 a year.


I'm from the Norwegian lower class, financially, in our case about USD 45.000 a year pre-tax ...

The Norwegian middle class statistically averages USD 65.000 to USD 100.000 pre-tax ...

Those are the numbers from the Central Statistics and Census Bureau.

Of course, our effective taxation rate is (cia world fact file) 80-95% or so, so that doesn't translate very well. Income tax is 30-70%. VAT is 12% on food, 25% on other goods and services. I'm not kidding, here.

However, the upside to this is that health care, education and so forth is free, and the lower class is pretty much capped at USD 20.000 worst-case if you have a child. If you make less than that, child protection services will demand that you contact the various welfare departments in order to have more than that to go around; failure to comply with that will usually end up with the child being taken away until the parent(s) are/is willing (they just have to ask for it) to provide the child with a certain level of material wealth.

Very different from the U.S., I imagine.

quote:

I have no problem saying that I come from lower working class background.


~nod~

We weren't tight for money in that sense, just relative to the national averages.

But as far as "status" is concerned, that's effectively the same. And I don't see why anyone should have a problem admitting to a specific background, whether they're lower class or socielite. I've seen POS SOBs from either end of the spectrum, and generally found that, given a bit of careful "real world" exposure, they all adapt about equally well.

(That's one of the potential advantages of a public educational system, as well. You end up with a lot more forced mingling across social strata. There are private schools in Norway as well, but those have to be based on a different approach to education, not just doing the same thing better. Hence, unless you want them to attend a religiously slanted school, or the Steinar school, or whatever, then they're stuck selecting from the same pool of schools as everyone else, although there is some geographical distribution along social strata (east coast is somewhat more upper class).)

quote:

I remember a time [...] It was one of the few times I saw my father cry.


Yeah, I can imagine that.

Only times I can recall, off-the-bat, seeing mine do so was when I was very ill.

Well, that, and some spinal column prolapse problems.

It's never pleasant.

quote:

I started babysitting for cash when I was ten. Then I worked at libraries and the pool as I got older.


I never needed much cash for my activities, so it didn't occur to me.

Babysitting, at the time, would have been a disaster ... for the baby. And that's the only legal semi-regular kind of work until you're like 14 or 15 years old up here.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/16/2007 3:20:30 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Ethical behavior doesn't allow for D/s, and especially not M/s! We violate ethics in adopting this lifestyle, at least in the view of larger society.


Well, the current majority view of most western societies, at least.

But the bulk of societies' ethics are little more than fashions.

And ethics are entirely arbitrary.


'course. I wouldn't say lacking ethics is necessarily a bad thing. I'd be quite an evil individual. ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:

In our own society? It depends where you define us. Still, I feel that the mature among us allow for people to follow their desires as they will, so long as it does not largely contradict the consent of another.


I wouldn't necessarily say it comes down to maturity.

And there are frequently complaints that "X is sick", even when the parties consent.


Meh, this is sort of what I mean. I feel a mature individual wouldn't say, "Oh, [something] is sick." Rather, they could just say, "Well, that works for you; it isn't for me, but, hey, you have global consent; enjoy."

(Cut rant. Perhaps later.)


Edit: I'm missing a lot of quote tags lately.. anyhow, fixed. (The "Cut rant" before the edit.)

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 6/16/2007 3:21:40 AM >

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/16/2007 5:03:25 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

What are the odds of getting threw this thread without righteous indignation over disagreement in other's ethics?


In hindsight.... It would seem that the odds wasn't so good.


I think I might be clairvoyant.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/16/2007 7:51:02 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I think I might be clairvoyant.


It's not exactly rocket science to predict that someone(s) will assert the universality of their views and others oppose it.




_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/16/2007 9:54:06 AM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: aurora31

Okay on the children vs relationship thing I believe it is a matter of balance. I believe that you should put the children first but that does not always mean you cater to them, it is a matter of priorities. An example do you attend your child's graduation ( from what ever, grade school, high school, scouts, camp etc etc etc) or do you take a weekend to yourself. Most here I think would agree the graduation comes first. But if your child wants to have an impromptu sleep over and you have a weekend away planned then the weekend away is probably going to win out. Part of raising a well rounded independent adult is telling them no as kids and teaching them to deal with disappointment. To me this is putting the child first but not at the expense of the relationship.

aurora


Your first statement though gives a clue about where it goes wrong. It is a matter of balance and prioritizing the importance of each thing that comes up. Many women do not seem themselves as catering to their children when they put their children first and yet, that is exactly what they do. For some, there is always a reason why THIS baseball game of Bobby's (# 20 in the last month, all 19 previously were also attended) is more important than spending the evening with your partner even though in the last month, you have spent maybe only the half hour morning coffee time with him. To look at something more serious and use your own example...how many damn "moments of importance" are there now? How many graduations are there now? From preschool (going to kindergarten next year), kindergarten (going to "real" school next year), from 5th grade (going to middle school next year), and on and on. Maybe its just me...but I seem to remember going through school and experiencing a lot fewer moments of importance and I came out just fine. Is it really that important, when you are in the middle of a serious discussion with your partner, to jump up and console Sally because her "best friend in the whole world" told her that Sally "stinks"? It may sound funny but I would be willing to bet that most of us on here HAVE seen examples of that in our own lives...and have seen the failed relationships that resulted.

And if it was all the partners' fault for "just not getting it", then why would you not just see relationship experts just dismiss their concerns and tell them they are "selfish" or immature themselves? Instead, oftentimes you see the experts confronting the woman who gives "all" for her children, who places the children "first" and ignores her relationship or expects her partner to understand.

as i read this post, i almost cried...i MISS all this stuff. My kids are all grown. I do not feel that these things are a luxury for kids. it gives them a feeling of love and worth. i raised my kids because it was my responsibility and my duty and my PLEASURE(well for the most part LOL) We will NEVER get those moments in time back....like when my youngest daughters team won regional champs for cheerleading...or my sons team won regional for football...these are memories...and THOSE are priceless. Children are work...and sacrifice. It costs you to raise your kids...and they should never know how much it cost you.  if a Dom type is SO self absorbed that they cant see the importance of being supportive and THERE for your kids,  then in my opinion that person needs to just move on down the road.    yes...kids come 1st...and if you dont like it...find a sub type without kids... just my take on it.

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/16/2007 11:06:51 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Your first statement though gives a clue about where it goes wrong. It is a matter of balance and prioritizing the importance of each thing that comes up. Many women do not seem themselves as catering to their children when they put their children first and yet, that is exactly what they do. For some, there is always a reason why THIS baseball game of Bobby's (# 20 in the last month, all 19 previously were also attended) is more important than spending the evening with your partner even though in the last month, you have spent maybe only the half hour morning coffee time with him. To look at something more serious and use your own example...how many damn "moments of importance" are there now? How many graduations are there now? From preschool (going to kindergarten next year), kindergarten (going to "real" school next year), from 5th grade (going to middle school next year), and on and on. Maybe its just me...but I seem to remember going through school and experiencing a lot fewer moments of importance and I came out just fine. Is it really that important, when you are in the middle of a serious discussion with your partner, to jump up and console Sally because her "best friend in the whole world" told her that Sally "stinks"? It may sound funny but I would be willing to bet that most of us on here HAVE seen examples of that in our own lives...and have seen the failed relationships that resulted.



I think a lot of these ceremonies are puffed up in an attempt to make money off of people.

If I had kids and they "graduated" from any thing other than high school or college, I'd feel pretty scammed. None of my much younger nephews and and neices went through these ceremonies, I certainly didn't.

I think when everything becomes an accomplishment it belittles other accomplishments. I think it also encourages children to become focused on the "reward" rather than the goals of learning and having fun.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/16/2007 9:19:26 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think a lot of these ceremonies are puffed up in an attempt to make money off of people.


If they reality is anything like it's usually portrayed on TV, then I'd have to say "yes".

Otherwise, I don't have any grounds for comparison.

quote:

If I had kids and they "graduated" from any thing other than high school or college, I'd feel pretty scammed. None of my much younger nephews and and neices went through these ceremonies, I certainly didn't.


Around here (Norway), we have "graduation ceremonies" (actually, "avslutningen", lit. "the ending") after 7 (compulsory), 10 (compulsory) and 13-14 (free) years, then after college/university for those who do that. Parents usually attend the first two. Some attend the one after college/university. Students often tend to be too drunk and/or hung-over for the one after 13-14 years (they reach legal age for drinking that year). None of the events are very formal (i.e. don't turn up in dirty gymclothes and worn-out sneakers, but don't bother dressing up), and they don't last very long.

All in all, it's no biggie for most of the parents to make time for a couple of hours at these intervals, and the ceremonies mostly serve as an occasion for people to say goodbye to teachers and fellow students. The only event that's actually a proper graduation is after college/university, which a lot of people don't finish (vocational training is done in grades 11 through 13-14).

quote:

I think when everything becomes an accomplishment it belittles other accomplishments.


I'd tend to emphatically agree with that.

Childhood years are just supposed to be a preparation for adult life.

We aren't doing the children any favours by making them be children longer than necessary.

And, in my admittedly limited experience, the milestones in adult life tend to be few and far between, but also tend to be real milestones. Moving out and getting a job being the "entry" into adult life, with further milestones being things like: buying a house, getting married, becoming a parent / grandparent, significant promotions, raises, retirement, etc... Things that have a real impact on your life and quality of life.

If everything is supposed to be an "accomplishment", then the kids are being set up for a big fall, and lose a sense of scope and perspective. That's why we only have proper graduation ceremonies when education is truly complete, as everything up to that point is really just par for the course.

quote:

I think it also encourages children to become focused on the "reward" rather than the goals of learning and having fun.


In my experience, kids are always focused on getting out of school.

And with school being what it is around here, I can't say I blame them for that.

Most western schools seem to have a pretty crappy approach to teaching.

Again, though, a different thread, perhaps? Or has this one run its course?


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use - 6/16/2007 11:41:00 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		In the interest of getting back on topic here...

It would help if the OP would clarify whether he's just sampling various people's ethics, or whether he wants a debate about what is ethical or not in the context of a BDSM relationship. In the latter case, a reference ethic is pretty much required, or it all breaks down to subjective and arbitrary comments and notes about absolute ethics being- or not being- a valid approach.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Authority/Power and Ethical Use Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125