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ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

My two-cents on children......

Of course the relationship between the two parents/participants in the main relationship is important, but to then make the decision to bring a child into the world has to come with some responsibility to the offspring and must entail responsibility to the child.

I applaud Aswad for his recognition that he has no use for a child of his own, and is actively acting on that belief. If only other parents had the capacity or foresight to consider this before they bring something into the world that they clearly see as a burden rather than a wonderful addition to the unit. Kids aren't for everyone, which is fine.

A child does not choose who its' parents are, which is a shame because frankly I see people on an almost daily basis who should never become parents because they do not have the intelligence, the sense of responsibilty or the commitment to devote a good portion of their existence (particularly in the early years) to the life they have created. A child should be nurtured and cared for and taught and loved, and if you see your children as a burden rather than a blessing then frankly you might as well give them up for adoption and let someone who really wants to care for them take over while you focus on your relationship at hand. (Which is fine, not everyone has what it takes to be a parent, it's just a shame so many of these people seem to have children.)

As for children being a parasite, I echo what .dark. said in that you actually choose to have these small creatures live inside you (even if you are anti-abortion and the pregnancy is an accident you are still choosing by way of your beliefs to have the child) - they don't suddenly turn up one day out of thin air. There is a mutual benefit in the whole relationship - the child is nurtured, taught and supported, and the parent(s) gain joy from seeing their offspring grow and develop (and again, if they don't then put them up for adoption and get yourself sterilised perhaps?). (Props again to Aswad for recognising that a child would not benefit his relationship and vice versa.)

To conclude, by all means put your own relationship first above the welfare and wellbeing of your child, but they are your legacy and the future, and thus entirely your responsibility to fuck up or otherwise. I personally look forward to the day when the two I have an influence on look back and reflect on the positive influence I am hopefully having on them.

Darcy

Ditto.

(well said Darcy)

He says it so much better than me huh?...

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Darcyandthedark: What I have said is that if you can't be responsible for children - .DONTHAVETHEM.

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This infers that putting the relationship above the children is being irresponsible.

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Yet who has the better chance to function independently in the world; a child prioritized and raised as the focal point with them given first consideration over a relationship partner, or a child raised to know that their is something greater than themselves even in their household?

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It's this attitude that creates a perception in the child that they are 'gods' and don't have to respond or respect the authority of the school, or society.

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We'll accept and strive for the legacy of raising our kids strong and independent. They know they are loved and they are 'spoiled' in many respects. They also know they aren't the most important thing in our lives. Those two statements aren't contradictory.

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  After reading your response and the numerous other responses about the subject, it finally dawned on me that you were simply talking about putting the welfare (or needs) of the children first before anything/anyone else.  With that statement, I agree with you 100%.

What I meant with my post was putting the marriage before the wants or whims of the children. 

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  We'll accept and strive for the legacy of raising our kids strong and independent. They know they are loved and they are 'spoiled' in many respects. They also know they aren't the most important thing in our lives. Those two statements aren't contradictory.

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: domiguy

Ethics rarely change.

Actually, they almost universally do.

For individuals, groups and societies.

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ORIGINAL: aurora31

Okay on the children vs relationship thing I believe it is a matter of balance. I believe that you should put the children first but that does not always mean you cater to them, it is a matter of priorities. An example do you attend your child's graduation ( from what ever, grade school, high school, scouts, camp etc etc etc) or do you take a weekend to yourself. Most here I think would agree the graduation comes first. But if your child wants to have an impromptu sleep over and you have a weekend away planned then the weekend away is probably going to win out. Part of raising a well rounded independent adult is telling them no as kids and teaching them to deal with disappointment. To me this is putting the child first but not at the expense of the relationship.

aurora

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

There is a trend to not let kids fail. Failure is important, the consequences of failure are important for them to experience. Yes they should have confidence that parents will provide comfort, but parents should also require responsibility for their children's actions not just enforce their rights "above all others". While were at it, society should do the same.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

There is a trend to not let kids fail. Failure is important, the consequences of failure are important for them to experience. Yes they should have confidence that parents will provide comfort, but parents should also require responsibility for their children's actions not just enforce their rights "above all others". While were at it, society should do the same.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Your first statement though gives a clue about where it goes wrong. It is a matter of balance and prioritizing the importance of each thing that comes up. Many women do not seem themselves as catering to their children when they put their children first and yet, that is exactly what they do. For some, there is always a reason why THIS baseball game of Bobby's (# 20 in the last month, all 19 previously were also attended) is more important than spending the evening with your partner even though in the last month, you have spent maybe only the half hour morning coffee time with him. To look at something more serious and use your own example...how many damn "moments of importance" are there now? How many graduations are there now? From preschool (going to kindergarten next year), kindergarten (going to "real" school next year), from 5th grade (going to middle school next year), and on and on. Maybe its just me...but I seem to remember going through school and experiencing a lot fewer moments of importance and I came out just fine. Is it really that important, when you are in the middle of a serious discussion with your partner, to jump up and console Sally because her "best friend in the whole world" told her that Sally "stinks"? It may sound funny but I would be willing to bet that most of us on here HAVE seen examples of that in our own lives...and have seen the failed relationships that resulted.

And if it was all the partners' fault for "just not getting it", then why would you not just see relationship experts just dismiss their concerns and tell them they are "selfish" or immature themselves? Instead, oftentimes you see the experts confronting the woman who gives "all" for her children, who places the children "first" and ignores her relationship or expects her partner to understand.

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
When my parents had time or income they would come to a play, a academic bowl, or a band/chorus event.

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ORIGINAL: Blkmastersgirl

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
When my parents had time or income they would come to a play, a academic bowl, or a band/chorus event.

If I am honored to have Master's child, I will be at each event my child participates in. I can't wait. My job will be to raise my Master's child in the best way I can. An academic or sports event will see me there.

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ORIGINAL: julietsierra

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Your first statement though gives a clue about where it goes wrong. It is a matter of balance and prioritizing the importance of each thing that comes up. Many women do not seem themselves as catering to their children when they put their children first and yet, that is exactly what they do. For some, there is always a reason why THIS baseball game of Bobby's (# 20 in the last month, all 19 previously were also attended) is more important than spending the evening with your partner even though in the last month, you have spent maybe only the half hour morning coffee time with him. To look at something more serious and use your own example...how many damn "moments of importance" are there now? How many graduations are there now? From preschool (going to kindergarten next year), kindergarten (going to "real" school next year), from 5th grade (going to middle school next year), and on and on. Maybe its just me...but I seem to remember going through school and experiencing a lot fewer moments of importance and I came out just fine. Is it really that important, when you are in the middle of a serious discussion with your partner, to jump up and console Sally because her "best friend in the whole world" told her that Sally "stinks"? It may sound funny but I would be willing to bet that most of us on here HAVE seen examples of that in our own lives...and have seen the failed relationships that resulted.

And if it was all the partners' fault for "just not getting it", then why would you not just see relationship experts just dismiss their concerns and tell them they are "selfish" or immature themselves? Instead, oftentimes you see the experts confronting the woman who gives "all" for her children, who places the children "first" and ignores her relationship or expects her partner to understand.

Guess I'm one of those catering and smothering moms. My son's in wrestling and football. He's been doing this since he was in 7th grade for wrestling and last year it was football and wrestling. I just raced home from work this morning to take him to football camp at his high school. On Monday, I'll be taking him every day to wrestling camp at that same high school. As soon as that's over, he'll be going back to football camp and weight training.

My daughter was in band when she was in high school. She is a member of an AYSO VIP soccer team (for those with disabilities).

When my oldest was in high school, he was on the tennis team and as a youngster, played soccer.

I was the one who took the oldest to soccer practice twice a week, cub scouts, catechism classes and everything else that he was involved with. I went to every tennis and soccer game he had - never missed one.

I tell the other two that Jerome Bettis' mother is my hero. She attended every game her son ever played - from his first ever football game to his last pro ball game. She never missed one. I have never missed one of my kids' games, concerts, parent teacher conferences or graduations. I have no intention of missing one of their games, concerts, parent teacher conferences or graduations.

And know what? My son, in full pads walked off the field at the end of his last game and I was right there with all the other catering and smothering mothers and fathers cheering our kids. He walked right up to me and in front of all the other players and parents gave me a huge hug and thanked me for always being there for him. That was more than worth the rush from school I did every week to go pick up his sister and make sure I was there for the game. My Master makes it to the games he can. And he drives nearly two and a half hours from work to do this. I cheer on my son's friends whose parents are unable to make it. I'm THERE for the people I care for in my life - even if they aren't my children. It's important to me.

Guess my son has a smothering and catering big brother too because his brother came home every week from college to attend his brother's games as well. Sometimes he'd come in, watch the game, give me a hug and a kiss and head on back to college. Sometimes we'd go out to dinner. Sometimes he'd stay home for the night.

His sister also had to "withstand" his smothering and catering because he came home for her concerts as well. He came home just to go with her to Special Olympics to take pictures of her events. He does this and still manages to do well in college an hour and a half away from home.

Come to think of it, when I've had special occassions I've been a part of, they've come home for that as well.

In addition to his own children, my Master is godfather to a mere 29 other children that he treats as his own. They all call him different variations of "dad." He never misses his children's events - and his children are grown. The events are more adult in nature now. Instead of watching his son perform in his school play, he goes to the ones his son directs - every SINGLE one his son directs. He has a grandchild. He's there for him too. He's taken time off of work to drive a god-daughter who needed care in another state to get her there. He's the one they call when someone's been hurt or is in the hospital and he is ALWAYS there.

Contrary to what people like to believe, we somehow manage through it all to have a strong and sustaining relationship. Sometimes we have to divide time into hours, not days, but we ALWAYS find the time. It doesn't HAVE to be one or the other. There don't HAVE to be choices in which someone loses. There just has to be a willingness to work around the responsibilities we have in order that everyone gets what they need.

It's not really all that complicated. It's our responsibility. It's our love. It's our lives.

Guess the bottom line for us is that THESE things are our most basic ethics. They are the things that everything else grows from. We take care of our own - and often those of others too if it's needed.

And I don't think we're any sort of angels. It's just what we do.

juliet

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
What ethical guidelines do you follow when making decisions that can have a significant impact on the direction and course of your slave/submissives life?
I'm not talking about decisions over areas such as clothing preferences and how much milk to put in the cup of coffee, but rather big issues that can greatly influence someone's life long after a relationship comes to an end...
Decisions that influence...
Family relationships?

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Personal relationships such as friends?

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Career decisions?

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Pursuit of education decisions?

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Illegial actions?

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If the slave or submissive has children, decisions that could affect how they are raised?

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These are issues, in my eyes, that really put convictions and a dominant or Master's sense of responsibility to the test, since often the decisions that are for the best interest of the slave/submissive arent always what we personally want or wish

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

What if your master wants you to be with him at that time or doing a household chore?