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RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 9:39:11 AM   
MistressLauren19


Posts: 12
Joined: 6/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yes, and those that rant about the sanctity of life are usually happy to send people to the gas chamber. Go and figure.


I love how you said 'usually'  Thank you.  I don't believe in the gas chamber.  I heard that it was more expensive to kill someone than to hold them in prision for life.  Is that true or...?

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 9:39:18 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Well, the link is either a scam, or these people have a seriously warped idea of parenthood (pay us or we don't have the child). They're appealing to the anti-abortion lobby, obviously.

On the other hand, I think people here are getting all hot and bothered on the subject of abortion (yet again): if only they stopped mingling with other people's business.

If a woman wants to carry a pregnancy to its full term, good. If she feels she cannot, she should be able to interrupt it without busybodies telling her what she can or cannot do.

Effectively: people, keep your noses out of our cunts.







Ummmm, The whole point here that I see that makes me angry, is the "woman" is inviting people to get involved in her cunt, as you put it. They (I do think it is a scam by the way, a very disgusting scam), are saying essentially, "Control the outcome of my cunt, for 50 grand". As if, if someone doesn't give them 50K somehow that is a justification, or cancels the justification of aborting the baby/fetus(whichever). Or to put it in other terms, they are shifting blame for the outcome of their decision to others(or attempting to catch gullible good-hearted people to fall prey to that mentality, since I'd guess it's 99% chance it's a fake).

While your statement makes sense in a normal context, as in one where a couple was making a decision in private, I don't see how in this situation when someone goes posting a website directly asking people to get involved in their reproductive activities, applies.

Essentially, they aired there laundry and asked for involvement.


So, the reason I made my initial statement, about the bullet in the brain isn't because of the abortion. It is because they are playing off of good people conscience. I have no sympathy for thieves and liars. Simply put. I wouldn't lose any amount of sleep over the loss of a scammer, or those that attempt to absolve themselves of blame for their personal choices.

< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 6/19/2007 9:43:46 AM >

(in reply to kittinSol)
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RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 9:41:12 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLauren19

...... The way it was wrote, I took it to mean she was speaking for all women.  If that wasn't how it was, then I apologize, but please, do NOT get on my back for applying myself to a conversation.



.......i'm not suggesting that you not contribute.....i am suggesting that if you are going to accuse people of making assumptions don't make them yourself.........

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RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 9:44:33 AM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		It's the woman's body so it's the woman's choice, I don't agree with abortion once it's a fetus rather than an embryo, the brain and soul are present by that time. Certainly a woman should abort if her life is at risk , there is deformity, or it's a product of rape.....

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 9:47:41 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Well, there was a whole thread devoted to that a week or two ago (time flies too fast when you're having fun). The death penalty does seem to be more expensive than a life sentence because of the cost of the numeral appeals that inevitably follow a death sentence.

However, a lot of us agreed that it wasn't a matter of economics, but of justice, fairness, humanity and, finally, the law.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 9:51:10 AM   
MistressLauren19


Posts: 12
Joined: 6/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Well, there was a whole thread devoted to that a week or two ago (time flies too fast when you're having fun). The death penalty does seem to be more expensive than a life sentence because of the cost of the numeral appeals that inevitably follow a death sentence.

However, a lot of us agreed that it wasn't a matter of economics, but of justice, fairness, humanity and, finally, the law.


Ah yes, good 'ol law.  Excuse me if I don't exactlly find the law completely fair.  Not that I've had a run in, of course, but from what I can see... it's not that great.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 9:52:38 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Well, the link is either a scam, or these people have a seriously warped idea of parenthood (pay us or we don't have the child). They're appealing to the anti-abortion lobby, obviously.

On the other hand, I think people here are getting all hot and bothered on the subject of abortion (yet again): if only they stopped mingling with other people's business.

If a woman wants to carry a pregnancy to its full term, good. If she feels she cannot, she should be able to interrupt it without busybodies telling her what she can or cannot do.

Effectively: people, keep your noses out of our cunts.




[...]

Essentially, they aired there laundry and asked for involvement.


So, the reason I made my initial statement, about the bullet in the brain isn't because of the abortion. It is because they are playing off of good people conscience. I have no sympathy for thieves and liars. Simply put. I wouldn't lose any amount of sleep over the loss of a scammer, or those that attempt to absolve themselves of blame for their personal choices.



Whilst it's probably true these people are scam-artists (and I agreed with that from the very onset), I disagree with you that they deserve to die because they're playing up the good conscience of the anti-abortion lobby. If people are stupid enough to send them cash, all the fool them.

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RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 9:55:58 AM   
KatyLied


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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Certainly a woman should abort if her life is at risk , there is deformity, or it's a product of rape.....


I am not comfortable thinking that a child with a deformity or the product of rape has less value than other human beings.
I do believe that it is a woman's choice and that no one else should be telling her when/or how to reproduce.


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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 10:12:12 AM   
onegoodgirl


Posts: 126
Joined: 5/6/2007
Status: offline 		 This is most certainly a scam.. although people are focused on the life or death concept and not the real shocker here.. which is since when does it take $50,000 up front to raise a child?

I was single, employed of course - but severely under-insured, as most young people tend to be. My car isn't the hottest or biggest vehicle on the block and I don't own a home.. but we have a roof over our heads and reliable transportation. My son is four years old and we do the best we can.

What good would it be to give money to people who obviously don't care either way and likely couldn't manage the funds for obvious lack of discipline and experience?

The scammer is trying to play on people's sense of morality - in a very immoral and irrational way.

BTW, I love the "You agree to forfeit $25,000 per violation of these terms" - that just seals the BS in real tight air-proof container. 

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 10:12:41 AM   
NoirUMC


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		This is disgusting and wholly unworthy of intelligent comment.

As such, I'll make this less-than-intelligent comment:

Fuck you, fargle. And fuck this "couple." And fuck their "kid."

Ridiculous.

P.S. So that everyone will know what to say when insulting me in future posts, I'm "pro choice." More accurately, I'm "pro the government staying the hell out of people's business." But I'm sure you'll all be able to chop up that position fairly quickly, right?


< Message edited by NoirUMC -- 6/19/2007 10:14:35 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 10:17:37 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLauren19

...... The way it was wrote, I took it to mean she was speaking for all women.  If that wasn't how it was, then I apologize, but please, do NOT get on my back for applying myself to a conversation.



.......i'm not suggesting that you not contribute.....i am suggesting that if you are going to accuse people of making assumptions don't make them yourself.........


Hear, hear :-)

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 10:19:18 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Oh, *I* am somehow responsible for the actions of this anonymous couple?

O-Kay....

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. And fwiw, their choice to promote this really did have the desired effect of promoting discussion.

What *IS* the objective value of a human being?

Is it more cost effective for the Administration to hire Mercenaries rather than up-armoring hummvees, and accept the loss of the troops lives as "The Cost Of Doing Business"?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/19/2007 10:20:17 AM >

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(in reply to NoirUMC)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 10:21:17 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Lets face it, this couple real or not is bottom feeding scum... but they did make a point... that is for sure

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 10:23:44 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Are they worse scum than those who profit off the "Pro-Life" industry?



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 10:43:15 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Are they worse scum than those who profit off the "Pro-Life" industry?



No. It's obvious!

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 11:16:29 AM   
sublimelysensual


Posts: 298
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
There's a saying that, if one cannot explain something to a nine-year-old, one does not understand the thing to be explained. Of course, adults are more likely to "block out" an explanation than kids are, but apart from that obstacle, I've found that it generally holds true for things like this as well.
Since I don't understand it, but would like to, and he doesn't understand it, but you do, why not try?

Hello Aswad,
I don't believe that you, of all people, don't "understand" why it's not appropriate to pay crack-addicted people to go get sterilized.  I can try to explain my feelings about this but I really don't have the time or energy to get into a moral debate about it.  People with addictions - to crack or any other mind-altering substance - are not exactly in the right frame of mind to make life-changing decisions such as to whether or not to get sterilized.  And to assume that they are some lower life form who SHOULD be sterilized is, in my mind, akin to the eugenics and ethnic cleansing used by the Nazis (though not based on ethnicity, of course). 

To me it is the height of arrogance to take it upon yourself to decide that crackheads should all be sterilized and so you go out and offer them money (the one thing they are most desperate for) in order to get them to do so.  What if they were to actually go through with it and then got clean and straightened their lives out and regretted it?  There's just no way anyone can justify such behavior to me.  I think there's lots of folks who shouldn't breed but it's not necessarily based on the fact that they are currently battling addictions that they may eventually overcome.  I don't know what to say.  I'm just kind of rambling because I just can't imagine that anyone could really defend that.  Wanna take a stab at it?.............luci


Let me preface this by saying I added the bold because that's the part of the post I wanted to address. A few questions..were they in the right state of mind when they chose to take the crack/meth -name your substance- the first time? How about the second time ? The time after that? They made a life altering decision the moment they chose to take an illegal, commonly known to be addictive, substance...unless someone had them tied up..which is a whole different perspective (sorry, couldn't resist)..anyway, point being, if they don't have the sense to not do crack..do you want them raising children? Do you want to pay medical expenses for said child born to a crack addicted parent? As for the whole eugenics comparison..come on now, none of those people chose to be Jewish, to live under Hitler's reign, etc, etc..it wasn't about choice period.  The same goes for the periods in time when people with mental retardation/developmental disabilities were forcibly sterilized as recently as the 1950's. There's just no comparison. Just my two cents, as always...
 
-a
 

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RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 11:27:01 AM   
NoirUMC


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		"What is the objective value of a human being?"

I'm glad you saw fit to pose a question now rather than a pointless challenge. As for me, the answer is pretty disturbing. My money is worth far more to me than this couple's child. I need it more than they do. So I'm keeping it. All of it. No donation from me.

Does that make the child worthless?

P.S.

Now that I've thought about your question a little longer, it seems to invite debate between the two camps on whether or not a first trimester pregnancy constitutes a human being. This isn't really something one can argue about concerning soldiers at war, however.


< Message edited by NoirUMC -- 6/19/2007 11:30:36 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 11:30:19 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Does that make the child worthless?


Nope.  They are the parents, they are the ones who placed a $50,000 value on their child.  Some would argue that the chance at life is worth much more.  Others, like me, would say it's the mother's choice and that the couple shouldn't be dragging others into the discussion or soliciting support for something that is their responsbility.


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(in reply to NoirUMC)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 11:31:49 AM   
NoirUMC


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		Duly noted. On the next Visa commercial, I'll expect one (1) human life to be valued at fifty thousand (50,000) US dollars. :)

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Working around the clock to find new and entertaining misspellings

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Pro-lifers. Put up or Shut up. - 6/19/2007 11:33:52 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		ps....I find your sigline entertaining.

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Profile   Post #: 100
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