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Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/22/2007 6:18:28 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		This is a spin-off on the Criminal Background Check thread....

For those of you involved in Law Enforcement (LE), do you feel it has "cynicized" your world view?

I was raised by cops and I'm a state licensed jailer...and working in this line of business has made me much more cynical.

I really don't trust people anymore. I find myself pretty much associating with other L.E. people. I have a few old friends from high school, but I find myself pulling away even from them. I simply don't trust anyone but L.E. people (and I don't trust THEM that much either, because I've personally witnessed them do so many bad things.)

I find that my job has really altered the way I view the world and the way I view human nature in general. I definately feel the job has changed the very core of my world view. I don't trust people. I'm cynical. I have "gallows humour" etc.

I recently read something (meant to be humourous). It said something along the lines of this:

Evolution of a L.E.O's world view:

Rookie: Most people are decent. There's a few criminals/crazy people/untrustworthy people/ assholes, but that's it.
1yr: About half the people not in L.E. are assholes.
2yr: Most of the people who aren't L.E are assholes.
3yrs: Everyone who isn't  LE are assholes.
4yrs: Everyone except those who work for my department are assholes.
5yrs: Everyone except those on my shift are assholes.
6yrs: Everyone except me and my partner are assholes.
7yrs: I'm starting to have doubts about my partner too...

That's about the way of it...I'm at 4.5 years right now, and yeah, right on track lol...

But seriously...I've gotten to a point where I don't really want to associate with non-LE people and I have serious doubts about dating non-LE people.

I know there's tons of LE people that aren't trustworthy either, so that just makes things more complicated.

Have the other LE people experienced similiar problems in their concept of the world? I just have reached a point, at age 24, where I genuinely believe the world is a bad place and most people in it are untrustworthy assholes OR psychos.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 6/22/2007 6:29:37 PM >

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/22/2007 6:50:45 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
I just have reached a point, at age 24, where I genuinely believe the world is a bad place and most people in it are untrustworthy assholes OR psychos.


Aww, a slow learner. *comfort*



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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/22/2007 7:20:23 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       If this is how you are feeling, it might be time to ask yourself if you are willing to trade your soul for a pension.

      There are other things out there.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/22/2007 8:05:50 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I really don't have much time in my life for someone who  has no more ambition than to be a cop-------

Ron 

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/22/2007 10:36:50 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		We got to be a bit like that in the C.G.
I still think any Hispanic Foreign National is ,
A. Trying to sneak into the U.S.
B. Trying to smuggle contraband/drugs into the U.S.
C. Trying to smuggle other foreign nationals into the U.S.
D. Trying to smuggle high end cars out of the U.S.
E. Trying to smuggle drug money out of the U.S.
And these days most of them are.
It was always my experience when dealing with HFNs that it would involve an immigration violation or drug violation.
As a group we were pretty tight-knit though.
Big difference from local departments that work an 8 hour shift then go home compared to being with the same people for 6 weeks at a time on a Cutter doing Hatian Migrant Interdiction Ops or South Florida Drug Interdiction Ops.
We were together all the time so we knew each other much better than you would on an 8 hour shift.
I'd say the only "cynicism" we experienced was that there wearn't enough of us to completely stop all that drug poison from entering the U.S. That was VERY frustrating!
We need much more draconian laws and policies against drugs and especially against the Countries that produce those drugs.
One fun thing on patrol though, we got to fire the .50 cal heavy machine guns and blow up 55 gal drums with a couple of gallons of gas in them!
Try doing that in a small or even large Police Dept!

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/22/2007 11:00:49 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I feel the same way about LE.  I have no desire to hang around people who bust people for shit they do on their own time off.  Criminals are just that, criminals, cops are criminals but are hypocritical about it

Being in the business I am in, I deal with lots of cops, the amount of them I thought were decent self aware humans leaves room on one hand.

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/22/2007 11:15:41 PM   
queencaliph


Posts: 131
Joined: 6/4/2007
Status: offline 		Its not just cynicism. I think the reason most cops get this cynical edge to them is because we don't take care of ourselves.  We witness murders, horrendous abuse cases, get shot at, watch other officers go down and consistently answer "hot calls."  Yet most of us skip our vacations, work unbelievable amounts of overtime, and never discuss with couselor, clergy or anyone else the horrible things we see.  That stuff will eat you alive over time.  Instead we make jokes to each other and pretend that we are so tough that nothing we see effects us. Face it, most law enforcement personnel are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.  Alcholism, suicide and depression are at astronomical rates for those in this profession and most departments have no outlet for officers to deal with it.  I am trying to combat this in my own life.  I take my vacations, I try to never skip my breaks when I do work, I don't drink and I talk to a counselor on a regular basis.  I know I will not police work forever. I am working on my M.S. degree now in a totally different field.  I don't believe anyone should be in this profession for 20 plus years. It can't be healthy.   Just my opinion. 

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 2:33:46 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		There are a lot of assholes out there. But, I can assure you, a "good" cop is an asshole. No doubts about it. This is coming from someone who doesn't smoke, drink, view pornography, practice drugs, drive over the speed limit, download music illegally, uses profanity around children (or at all), etc., too. No cop in this world could bring a valid case against me. Hell, in a way, they help me, by keeping everyone else at bay. And I still hate them.

Cops are minions of the state designed to enforce rules and regulations governed by, mostly, those that have died. They act on human and inadequate rules, even going to the extent of delivering mortal judgement upon other living beings for crimes that they can't even understand.

They are, in a sense, necessary evils. This, however, does not detract from the fact that they are indeed evils.

Edit 3: Deleted all of the other edits. (Prudent, eh?)

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 6/23/2007 2:59:22 AM >

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 3:08:55 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Since I'm tired of editting that last post..

I think a lot of the cyncism that you feel from a "law enforcement" prospective is that you're right. What you do is good work. That assumption forces you to see things in opposition to it as wrong, or incorrect, or rude, at least. It puts you into a very narrow state of mind, and working in that only reinforces it into you. Hell, this idea of "enforcing laws" probably has you convinced you're perfectly correct to throw another human into a cage over smoking a plant in a safe, mature, and responsible manner?

Anyhow, "law enforcement" has a very narrow view on right and wrong and commits henious acts against those who do what they consider wrong. Since, the longer a person's in it, the more acustomed they become to it, the easier it is for them to feel that everyone else is sick and twisted, and that they're the last decent person.

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 5:03:21 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		GeekyGirl,

One of the reasons I didn't stay in the Marines was I didn't want to end up feeling like you are right now.

If you're committed to continuing in your current profession, you're probably going to have to find a way to cope.  I don't mean therapy, I mean find an activity where you can involve yourself where you're exposed to, and have the opportunity to invest in, something genuinely fulfilling and rewarding.  It might be worth considering volunteering; perhaps working with children in some fashion.  By investing of yourself in making a difference in other's lives, that jaded shell you're wrapping yourself in is forced to accommodate.

Hope that's worth a thought for you,

Stephan


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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 5:07:50 AM   
Daughtry


Posts: 81
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline 		On a tangental side note... cops are so hot.  

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 5:36:54 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Hello Geeky Girl,
 
The reasons you mention are why I had to change career paths
after working for a long time in the mental health/social services field.
 
Do what you can to maintain your own inner stability and tranquility
admist all the chaos and negativity around you.  The work you do is
very important but please do not sacrifice your whole perception of
humanity based on these experiences.
 
Peace,
 
Vendaval



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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 5:55:26 AM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    If this is how you are feeling, it might be time to ask yourself if you are willing to trade your soul for a pension.

   There are other things out there.


Actually I love my job...that's the thing....I don't really think about this stuff at all until other people bring it up. The rest of the time I just assume that everyone else is as cynical as I am(Probably because I grew up in an isolated rural area, raised by two cops, so to me, this world view is "normal".)

I often get told that I form judgements or base opinions on people like someone who has "lived in a vaccum" because 90% of the people I've associated with have been L.E. my entire adult life (and also a majority of my childhood life as well.)

For example, I'll say to an non-LE acquaintance..."Well almost everybody believes _____". And they'll say , "No, that's not true." and I'll say, "Well everyone *I'VE* ever known felt that way." and they'll say  "yes, but just about everyone you've ever known is law enforcement. You have a skewed perspective."

quote:

I really don't have much time in my life for someone who  has no more ambition than to be a cop-----


So the only worthwhile ambitions are career oriented? I have many ambitions. Most of them revolve around my hobbies of raising horses and doing animal rescue work. Not all people are career oriented.

I was valedictorian of my senior class and could have done anything I wanted with my life. I chose this because it gave me the resources and time to do what is really important to me...raise and show champion horses.

quote:

I feel the same way about LE.  I have no desire to hang around people who bust people for shit they do on their own time off.  Criminals are just that, criminals, cops are criminals but are hypocritical about it


I understand the point you're making...We all commit crimes to an extent. EVERYONE does. But honestly, other than having someone run criminal background checks, I don't do ANYTHING illegal (other than anal sex...that's illegal in TX too.)

I don't drive over the speed limit. I have never tried drugs. I didn't drink underage. I didn't smoke underage. I am genuinely as close to a law abiding citizen as I think a person can be.I don't steal. I just don't do illegal things other than the two things I have mentioned. Most people have a list of crimes much longer than two things. I think I'm doing pretty well actually.

quote:

It might be worth considering volunteering; perhaps working with children in some fashion


I do not enjoy the company of  children. I was raised an only child, in, like I said,  a relatively isolated environment and I positively cannot stand to be around children....teenagers are ok, but I prefer to work with animals over humans.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 6/23/2007 6:18:15 AM >

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 5:58:50 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		I dont think you have to come from a Law Enforcement background to be a cynic. 
All you have to do is live a little larger then your own back yard to find that most intentions
are good, yet the deeds that are done are usually for a singular gain. 
It's life, people suck at times. 


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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 6:34:31 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Having spent the best part of ten years working in the probation service I also got very cynical because cops, prison officers, social workers and the whole boat load of other government workers I came across were far more dishonest than the criminals they worked with.

Give me workaday people trying to get by, malcontents, down and outs, rebelious teenagers and anyone else L.E people find questionable, they are far more rounded people, even with their feet of clay and far more honest. Hell, even the honest LE people I knew were so warped by fitting themselves into a psychological straight jacket, they were ready to be commited to the local crazy house.

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 6:38:59 AM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		Hmm...I'm usually a pretty honest person. I will admit to being a little crazy by most people's standards though.

I don't think anybody is 100% honest, but I was raised to believe that dishonesty was a cardinal sin and even when I do something "wrong", I don't lie about it.

I was the kid who would come to my mom and confess about things she didn't even know I had done...I just have that inner drive to be honest, and on the rare occasions that I lie, I feel horrible about it.

And I never,ever lie at my job. I sometimes violate policy and procedure but I am ALWAYS honest about it. One thing I've learned is that my department will fire you in a heart beat for lying...most anything else, they'll just give you some time off without pay.

One thing that that I find really shocking (and I'm just now discovering  this) is that people seem to actively dislike and distrust L.E. I honest-to-gods never know that the average civilian had a such a low opinion of L.E. (but then again, I wasn't raised around average civilians.)

Funny how people bitch about the cops..but when their daughter gets raped or their car gets stolen, guess who they expect to help out? My opinion is that people who bitch about the cops shouldn't have any rights to utilize their services.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 6/23/2007 6:43:03 AM >

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 6:52:33 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

If you're committed to continuing in your current profession, you're probably going to have to find a way to cope. 



Howdy,

I can relate to this even though I am not a police officer.  I am a women's self defense instructor in adrenalin response training.  Women, many of whom (50-75%) come to our class with some sort of history.  Fighting for one's life is an emotional thing, and it is my job to portray the bad guy in realistic rape scenarios.

Sometimes these women share their experiences, sometimes they have disassociative meltdowns, and there is a commonality to 99.9% of them.  Their negative experiences were visited upon them by men.  After a while, I started to discover that I was having issues dealing with the whole idea of men.  I became cynical, I grew to find that the whole "man" thing is vastly overrated, I came to the conclusion that men are pigs with furniture.

One day my three year old son and I met eyes, for a long moment, saying nothing.  I had an epiphany; I realized that he was going to mirror his experience in his own gender and life through my eyes until he found his own way in the world.  I did not wish to give him my negative aspects to it.  For myself, I really did not want to become the male version of a FemiNazi.  We are all here together; we all get out of here together, or none of us do. 

I did therapy for a while, and one day my therapist said he was more than happy to keep seeing me, but the issues I was coming to him to discuss were not ones he could really help me with.  He had no frame of reference to deal with my feelings from going home after having watched a student pinned to the floor have her eyes roll up into the back of her head and curl up into the fetal position.

So I stopped going to therapy.  I discussed some of these experiences with other mock assailants.  Which helped somewhat.  I read a lot.  Finally found peace in myself where I realized that people were not the problem, violence against people was what I was trying to stop.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 7:06:18 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I was accosted by a sheriff's deputy for sitting in my car in my own driveway listening to the radio.

http://writingtrue.blogspot.com/2007/06/home-insecurity.html

Yeah, I have a little cynicism.

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 7:17:13 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		cynicism comes in many jobs.....i have worked in schools for the past 15 years and there are days i think every parent is a moron and shouldnt be allowed to raise children.

then i concentrate on the good, the hugs, the kids i see that are now young adults and see me at the store and hug me while thanking me for some kindness i showed them years ago that i cant even remember.

working around kids is a calling. i suspect being a cop is too.  if youre going to do it, do it well every day and be proud of it.

now about those marijuana laws...........

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it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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RE: Law Enforcement and Cynicism - 6/23/2007 7:17:39 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Funny how people bitch about the cops..but when their daughter gets raped or their car gets stolen, guess who they expect to help out? My opinion is that people who bitch about the cops shouldn't have any rights to utilize their services.


What a fucking complete load of bullshit.  What percentage of reported rapes does your department get an arrest on?  I would be surprised if it was over 20% and most rape is committed by people the victim knows.  How many cars actually get recovered before they are stripped?  Most cars are recovered after they are dumped on the street and someone complains about them.  Look at the record of response to 911 calls, if you aren't on the right side of the track, don't expect much.   Most people don't bother calling the cops because they are generally useless unless your first call was to a politician you know or you are a fellow cop.

I am NOT attacking you but I am attacking your profession.  The day cops work as hard busting each other as they do civilians is they day I begin working at respecting them.

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