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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 12:28:12 PM

Alumbrado

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Everything I know about admiralty law, I learned from Captain Crunch.

(Did take some incredibly boring classes on laws covering boiler explosions though).

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 12:35:21 PM

QuietlySeeking

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Hey Lady; no arguement from me; you are absolutely correct. Years ago, they did not call it a Fine, right off. They called it 'bail'.

Now this is it: you are ticketed, and you see the judge, he sets the 'bail' at the rate imposed as 'fine', you go to the clerk, pay the 'bail', it is entered as 'Fine' paid, and off you go, to commit yet another violation. Now, paying the 'fine' you admit to guilt. Now, signing the ticket, you are assuring you will not flee prosecution of the violation, and since you signed the ticket, you admit guilt. Refusal to sign, you are ressisting arrest, then arrested for refusal to sign, your vehicle is towed and impounded; and you are booked for resisted arrest, spend time in lock-down, call your attorney if you have one, if not the court appoints one for you, you see the judge, and have a multitude of transgressions logged to you, you may be released, then you have to explain to your boss why you did not come to work, may be fired, meanwhile, the bills you accumulated while your stay at Hotel-State; are overdue, and lets not forget the towing and impound fees, no pay, no vehicle, storage fees accumulate. You appear in court, the officer is present, if you lose, which you are almost certain to lose, you pay the fine imposed, plus court costs and the officer's salary for that day, your attorney fees, and don't forget, traffic school costs.

<BUZZER> Read the fine print on the ticket. A signature on the ticket only means that you have accepted the ticket from a police officer and have agreed to appear. It DOES NOT represent an admission of guilt UNLESS you sign the back that says you are guilty and send the payment. Refusal to sign does not mean you can be charged with "resisting arrest", but it does mean that police officers can choose to detain you at that point.

And in TN and GA, the court costs are automatically included in the ticket. If you don't choose to go to court, you pay them anyway.

And most attorneys will not take simple moving violation cases such as speeding. You have to move up to DUI or criminal misdemeanors before your case is "worth" their time.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 12:39:10 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

<BUZZER> Read the fine print on the ticket. A signature on the ticket only means that you have accepted the ticket from a police officer and have agreed to appear. It DOES NOT represent an admission of guilt UNLESS you sign the back that says you are guilty and send the payment. Refusal to sign does not mean you can be charged with "resisting arrest", but it does mean that police officers can choose to detain you at that point.

Thank You...

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 12:51:06 PM

farglebargle

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We don't require signatures on Uniform Traffic Citations in NYS.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 12:52:25 PM

dragone

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Oh please...so the officer detains you...then what...both of you stand around in the blazing sun and look at one another? You just get in your car and drive away?

I never said anything about a DUI, and yes, mostly all attorneys will not touch a minor violation.

Agreed to appear: what the hell did I say...gives assurance you will not flee prosecution, Blah Blah, what does ...agree to appear mean, if not that...oh, wait, I understand now, I did not phrase it exactly like you want it. It is the same thing; are you kidding me, or what?

I've had my fair share of tickets, and I have never skated, as the OP wants to; and where once I challenged the officer, not violently, just protested, he snapped his pistol loose.

Yeah right, you are just detained, both you and the officer, have a 'bonding', in the sun.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 12:54:41 PM

SugarMyChurro

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The fact that you have to sign anything makes it a contract signed under duress, doesn't it?

The process is streamlined so that you pay the fine and shut the hell up. The process is not designed to protect your rights in any way. Should you go to traffic court you will quickly discover what is meant by the phrase "kangaroo court." It is not uncommon for the judge to play both judge and prosecutor.

See if you can guess the outcome of such a procedure.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 12:55:06 PM

uwinceismile

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btw,,
if ya look at my op.... u will see that the question was/is...what makes it legal?
i understand that my vehichles are my responsibility....
i just dont agree that the owner of a vehichle, should be held responsible for a moving viloation of another driver.
i see this as just another way to dig into our pockets ..
which is what i do,,and pay the citation

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 1:05:04 PM

dragone

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I never gave you advice on how to run your business. What the hell are you talking about? You must have banged your head against the table leg, while rolling around on the floor.

Hey guy; you are the one with the tickets, if you don't like paying them, then start obeying the traffic laws. That simple, what is so hard to understand? If your employees disobey the traffic laws, then deal with it and them. What is so difficult to understand?

You don't like the cameras, so, what are you going to do about it? If you feel you have been discriminated against, unlawfully cited, then deal with it, have your day in court, petition to be heard by the court. What is so difficult here, that is beyond your comprehension?

If you choose to do nothing...then STFU and pay the fine. What the hell is wrong with you?

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 1:11:38 PM

dragone

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Hi SugarmyChurro; Yeah, but you are posting here, telling the OP how to run his business.

You are absolutely correct, signed contract, promise to not flee prosecution, to appear in court, whatever nit-pick phrase you want. Signed contract, under duress, and can be challenged, but at what cost. Absolutely correct.

Opps, the buzzer just went off.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 1:22:29 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

Oh please...so the officer detains you...then what...both of you stand around in the blazing sun and look at one another? You just get in your car and drive away?

1) Am I Under Arrest?

2) May I Go Now?

3) Goto 1

Depending on your local laws, as few as 2 or 3 interations of that loop can be evidence of Unlawful Arrest.

Of Course, Your Mileage Will Vary.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 1:43:27 PM

uwinceismile

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perhaps the post about running my business wasnt to u dragone.....

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 1:55:20 PM

brightspot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

i just got a third ticket in two years from traffic cameras :(
i was actually driving the car one of the three times. i pay the tickets(ya gotta) but grrrrrr.....
i wonder what makes it legal to do this?

They tried them here in Minneapolis, but because of the above reasons you gave have found them illegal and have shut them all down, thank goodness.

Missy.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 2:02:50 PM

uwinceismile

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brightspot,
congrats to u folks up there in minneapolis :)
so ur telling me there is hope??? lol

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 2:07:14 PM

uwinceismile

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well dragone,,,
thats twice in one thread u have told me to shut up..the second time was a lil harsher,,when u suggested i shut the F*** up.
i appreciate your outlook, all tho i must admit, i dont agree with you. i do however admire your ability to make your point in a non inflammatory way, and never having to stoop so low as to embarras yourself or others here ,
thank u ,
signed,
smiley

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 2:14:12 PM

dragone

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Hey guy, please, understand one thing, I do not, nor ever have intended to impose myself, or my views on anyone here, on this thread nor any other; I simply state, from expierence what I have learned over dealing with people, my expierences are no greater than anyone else's on the thread, and less than some, and greater than others; hey I've owned a business too. I would never, even suggest, how someone should conduct there business. Just know that.

My short experience on these threads have given me exposure to some of the rudest, stupidities I ever imagined I would ever have the misfortune to encounter. Some appear to have a total mental blockage, and are insulting to boot. Why?

Whenever I replied to you, I posted my perspective, and I get some snide letters, with no explanations, and forceful entry, as it were.

Hey, if you disagree, fine, be civil, if you feel to clarify, fine, ask me...but like please not as some others here...SHOW ME THE URL FOR THAT STATEMENT; hell man, look the shit up for yourself. or, 'what you say is pure nonsense', giving a URL to disprove me...then just don't go all the way, and when I bounce back with my proof,... is there any, oh, yes, I was wrong, I should have explored further. Not on your life...then it's me that is the fool.

This thread spurred serious questions and concerns, but you started it as a tongue in cheek joke. Thank you for the thread, let the comments reign; it is a good thread; so why did you scoff, and blightly insult. I simply don't get it.

So, let's get on with the stuff.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 2:28:47 PM

dragone

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Yup Fargle, that's it. I tell you, I was stopped for a violation I KNEW I DID NOT COMMIT. Sitting in the car, the officer approached, and asked for my driver's license, "What did I do?,

"Step out of the car." and snap goes the holster and the pistol, half drawn.

Here's what happened: I was making a left turn, on coming traffic, I'm in the middle of the intersection; stopped, waiting for the traffic to let up. The light turns red, at that instance here comes this cop speeding down on me, so I make the turn, Bingo, without slowing down the red lights flash, I pull over, He approaches, asks for my license, with no other explanation, I respond and bingo, I almost get myself shot. So that is it, no absive loud talk from me, I just asked.

So, you tell me, I'm cited, and I'm going to NOT sign the citation...you got to be kidding.

Notice, even the word...citation...sounds like they are giving you a reward or something.

Now, for the 'Buzzer' guys; the law spefically states, if you are in the intersection, and the traffic light goes red, you are to complete your turn (regarding left turn procedures).

So, I'm going to challenge this fuck ? STFU and pay. That is the law. Howbeit, unwritten.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 2:36:21 PM

ModeratorEleven

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Ok folks, please chill.

XI

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 4:24:44 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

The fact that you have to sign anything makes it a contract signed under duress, doesn't it?

Sure.

But a traffic stop is technically an arrest. So feel free to refuse to sign and enjoy a nice ride down to the jailhouse.

Make sure you use your one phone call wisely.

Sinergy

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 5:12:19 PM

SugarMyChurro

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Sinergy:

It's not that I disagree with your assessment of the likely outcome, but I have to wonder about why a signature is necessary at all. I think the point is to make you feel as if you are consenting to parts of the process when in actuality they are forced upon you, as previously noted. This very thread is about camera/computer generated traffic citations - I presume they arrive in the mail without the defendant's signature on them. Why then is it that when you are pulled over by a cop they require that signature - they could just hand you the summons as a kind of service of process so what's the big deal about the signature?

They want proof of your consent. The legal reasons are probably murky, but psychologically I think the motive is obvious. Legally, I think they are trying to head off a jurisdictional challenge to the quasi-admiralty kangaroo court proceedings.

But hey, you signed so you pre-agree that the court has jurisdiction.

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 5:16:34 PM

farglebargle

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You signed your MV Reg and DL Application, so you've ALREADY agreed to Administrative Disposition or whatever they call the arrangement they setup to process traffic violations....

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