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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 5:30:27 PM   
mstrj69


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While cameras have been installed here, to date they are just to watch for fights or accidents on the street as downtown is all 1 way streets and autos without a front plate could not be ticketted without a second camera to take a picture of the rear plate.  As that allows others from states that do not require a front plate to get away without a ticket, that is discrimination and would be a federal offense against the people who orderred them installed and used and those who actually installed them or made sure the tickets got sent in the mail.  It has to apply to all or it is discrimination is the law in most cases.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 5:39:20 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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Agreed.

Now we would have to talk about what it is I precisely need a license for when all I want to do is travel by the modern conveyance that is the motor vehicle. I'm not a driver for hire, nor do I make any extraordinary use of the roads - I merely travel. And I have a right to travel by common modes of transportation as recognized as early as Magna Carta under the common law.

A license is permission to do that which would otherwise be unlawful. Travelling is a right.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 5:56:27 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Agreed.

Now we would have to talk about what it is I precisely need a license for when all I want to do is travel by the modern conveyance that is the motor vehicle. I'm not a driver for hire, nor do I make any extraordinary use of the roads - I merely travel. And I have a right to travel by common modes of transportation as recognized as early as Magna Carta under the common law.

A license is permission to do that which would otherwise be unlawful. Travelling is a right.


It actually was originally required to assist in the resolution of insurance claims. It's easier for the Insurance Companies to have consistent sets of records from all parties...

Eventually, it became a mandatory requirement. I suppose if you retained the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin, and otherwise provided for financial security ( I'm thinking Posting a Bond... ) than you could do without the Registration, License and Insurance.

GOOD LUCK trying to explain that to the State Trooper!

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(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 7:27:17 PM   
uwinceismile


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i am not sure what you are speaking of..url's etc?
and if i blighted ya? i apologize.
as for sitting here and being told to stfu? well,, i gues you dont remember ?
ive re-read.... i dont see where i blighted ya ,,worse thing i said was i find some of ur post funny, so i rofl...
and that it was a good thing.
and as for the business,, i already clarified that it wasnt to u..im guessing most here understood that anyways ..
and yes, i guess its a good enuff thread,,,plenty of folks with things to say about it anyways.
just please in the future, dont sugest that i stfu,,it is rude and uncalled for,, and i have seen in watching you post, that you are a better man then that. of that i have no doubt :)
i harbor no ill feelings and wish u the best
smiley

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 7:44:03 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Eventually, it became a mandatory requirement. I suppose if you retained the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin, and otherwise provided for financial security ( I'm thinking Posting a Bond... ) than you could do without the Registration, License and Insurance.



State and federal highways require licensing on automobiles in order to use the roads maintained with tax revenues.

You can post a bond in lieu of paying car insurance.  The Bond company would provide you with a record of the bond to show the county mounty.

Sinergy

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(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 7:51:26 PM   
uwinceismile


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i had no idea that you could do that.....and i have a small interest in an insurance company   lol
maybe thats why it is a small interest huh   rofl

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 7:58:58 PM   
QuietlySeeking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Oh please...so the officer detains you...then what...both of you stand around in the blazing sun and look at one another? You just get in your car and drive away?

I never said anything about a DUI, and yes, mostly all attorneys will not touch a minor violation.

Agreed to appear: what the hell did I say...gives assurance you will not flee prosecution, Blah Blah, what does ...agree to appear mean, if not that...oh, wait, I understand now, I did not phrase it exactly like you want it. It is the same thing; are you kidding me, or what?

I've had my fair share of tickets, and I have never skated, as the OP wants to; and where once I challenged the officer, not violently, just protested, he snapped his pistol loose.

Yeah right, you are just detained, both you and the officer, have a 'bonding', in the sun.


I've bolded the statements (from your post) to which I was referring:
1.  Signing a ticket equates to guilt.
2.  Refusal to sign equates to resisting arrest.
3.  You imply that there will be "your attorney's fees" to pay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone
Now this is it: you are ticketed, and you see the judge, he sets the 'bail' at the rate imposed as 'fine', you go to the clerk, pay the 'bail', it is entered as 'Fine' paid, and off you go, to commit yet another violation. Now, paying the 'fine' you admit to guilt. Now, signing the ticket, you are assuring you will not flee prosecution of the violation, and since you signed the ticket, you admit guilt. Refusal to sign, you are ressisting arrest, then arrested for refusal to sign, your vehicle is towed and impounded; and you are booked for resisted arrest, spend time in lock-down, call your attorney if you have one, if not the court appoints one for you, you see the judge, and have a multitude of transgressions logged to you, you may be released, then you have to explain to your boss why you did not come to work, may be fired, meanwhile, the bills you accumulated while your stay at Hotel-State; are overdue, and lets not forget the towing and impound fees, no pay, no vehicle, storage fees accumulate. You appear in court, the officer is present, if you lose, which you are almost certain to lose, you pay the fine imposed, plus court costs and the officer's salary for that day, your attorney fees, and don't forget, traffic school costs.


Refusal to sign means that you can be detained. 
Resisting Arrest is a criminal charge that would be in addition to the moving violation.

No offense...take the ticket and fight it in court.  If you want to protest it, out on the roadside with a police officer is not the place to do so.
As for the OP, turn in the drivers who were driving your car -or- challenge the court ruling and force them to prove it was you behind the wheel.

< Message edited by QuietlySeeking -- 7/5/2007 8:02:49 PM >

(in reply to dragone)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 8:11:10 PM   
uwinceismile


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quietlyseeking,
its not so much the cost,,hell,,its just the cost of doing business when u have work vehichles etc....
myreal beef is how is this legal to begin with?

(in reply to QuietlySeeking)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 8:57:16 PM   
angelic


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We've had traffic cameras for a while (a few years), but i remember when they first were installed, one of the first people who got a ticket this way through the mail, laid out the money on the table, took a picture of it and sent the picture of money in with the ticket.  i am sure it wasn't original but i thought it was funnier than shit at the time.  .

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 9:01:10 PM   
uwinceismile


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angelic,,
i remebr a similiar story,
supposedly the cops sent back a picture of handcuffs ;)  rofl

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 9:44:14 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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You guys have explained the purpose of the license plate, not the licensing that ties me to the vehicle code: the driver's license. Or perhaps I misunderstood the point you guys were making.

If I am jay walking and don't have a license, am I still bound to obey the vehicle code? Technically, I think I don't have to. Practically, I think the laws will be enforced on me anyway - and even if I tried to appeal the judgment in error, I'd lose my first right of appeal and then just get shut down my being refused certiorari by subsequent appeals courts. The Supreme Court of the U.S. doesn't have to hear any cases that fail the Ashwander Doctrine, and even then they will only hear cases they find interesting.

"Ashwander v. Tennessee Valley Authority" 297 U.S. 288
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0297_0288_ZC.html

Most people do not realize that the courts actually have to grant you the appeal - at least that's true in any court of consequence that would have the effect of creating settled case law.

It's all sewn up. You lose. The law is a whore and spreads her legs to the highest bidder or the highest authority.

In truth, there is no law.

(in reply to angelic)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 10:07:26 PM   
winterlight


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i drive a small car. the camera light intersection, the light turned yellow and there was no way i would be able to get through without getting flashed.
so i braked. I almost got rear ended by a Humongous Truck.

There is one person around here that has a Truck and he just breezes through the intersection. I saw him/her do this 3 times on different mornings. Doesn't have a plate on the front or back of the Truck i guess. So when a pic is taken there is no plate..Someday he/she may just kill somebody..

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 10:18:02 PM   
dragone


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Yeah, so, what are we arguing about? If you refuse to sign, you will be detained, arrested, your car impounded, towed away, you'll ride down to city hall in the back seat of the police car, maybe handcuffed.  And what the police decide to charge you with is up to them. But you are not driving away with a smile on your face and waving "see Ya'.

Okay, I conceed, you are right, if you ever get stopped, then be sure to do exactly as you say here. Don't sign the ticket.

Every ticket I've ever signed, equated to guilt, and pay up fool. If it didn't equate to guilt, the outcome was the same, pay up fool.

So, what are you telling me?

(in reply to QuietlySeeking)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 10:23:33 PM   
dragone


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Hi, Well, here in my state, driving is a priviledge, not a right. Your license can be suspended at any time; of course, if it seems without cause you have the right to petition the court, for a hearing on the cause. And you better be plated front and rear, or else you are ticketed. Same in Arizona, same in California.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 10:43:40 PM   
dragone


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Hello Smiley, I'm not against you, and I'm not arguing with you, I'm merely trying to point out, just exactly what the cold light of day reality is. To be sure; STFU, was not an intentional drive to order you to do anything, nor belittle you, it is the cold hard reality of what you are facing, in street vanacular...the situation as it is, your hopelessness to the events. Complaning does no good, gets you nothing, you win nothing; the judge and police, just look at you, in silence, waiting for you to 'pay up'.

Complain, to their disliking and then you are in contempt of court, and additional fines. That is what I attempted to say to you. I expressed it in exactly the manner and reality of the incident, as straight forward and as cruel and raw as I could.

Can't you see that.

The cameras are a thing of modern policing, you are not going to escape that. So, what to do...obey the traffic laws. If caught, well, to save alot of time and energy, pay the damned fine; Or, petition the court for redress.

In California, they put up public service commercials, telling how a person is to react, should a policeman pull them over.......keep both hands on the wheel, where the officer can see them, make no sudden moves, only move as the officer directs you to.

So, what am I going to do, quickly reach in my pocket, hide my hands, scream at the cop.......this is the society we live in, the cameras are a part of our lives. The police don't know who they are stopping for the most part, however, they do the computer thing before they approach you.

Don't take it so personnal, what I write, it's explaining the circumstances as they are. No sympathy, you're a smart guy, you know that.

(in reply to uwinceismile)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 10:56:00 PM   
dragone


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Hi, A friend of mine, getting off work, jaywalked accross the street to his car; cop saw him, drove up to him, asked for ID...which equated to his driver's license, wrote him up for jay-walking; a 200 dollar fine.

So, as Quitelyseeking would have it, if my friend should have refused to sign the ticket. He would be 'detained'; the cop and he would stand there, looking at one another I suppose. Till when?

Your driver's license is your ID which tells the officer you are a real person, without ID you are a non-person, and Bye, Bye. A police card, a green card, something on your person must prove you exist.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 10:58:18 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone
Hi, Well, here in my state, driving is a priviledge, not a right.


I don't take legal advice from the state, they aren't on my side or even impartial.

Magna Carta says I can travel. The Constitution and Bill of Rights say I can do so without having to provide documents of identity.

I realize this is not how the country wants to me to do things at this time. But that doesn't change my rights.

But don't just believe a load of crap just because no one can move a relevant no driver's license case forward up to the U.S. Supreme Court. We all know the legal system is BS and I just told you how appeals fail and how meaningful cases are shut down.

We have lost the ability to redress grievances in the courts. The Ashwander Doctrine and vagaries of the appeals system is how they did it. I'm not arguing against that at all. I agree - an individual hasn't a chance of making such a liberty based argument a winning one in the courts as they are at this time.

We are a long way away from good case law like Miranda and many others. It's been all crap for the last 20+ years.


< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 7/5/2007 11:00:54 PM >

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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 11:12:31 PM   
uwinceismile


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i just got a third ticket in two years from traffic cameras :(
i was actually driving the car one of the three times. i pay the tickets(ya gotta) but grrrrrr.....
i wonder what makes it legal to do this?

that was my origional post...
no where did i say i didnt pay,,,
no where does it imply that i have disdain for traffic laws,,
no where does it say that i drive crazily ,,,,,,
it says that in 2 yrs or so,,3 tickets were given to my vehichle for running a red light,
i admit that i drove it one of those times.im guessing my driving record is as good as most here, as in a later post i exclaimed that i have ONE moving viloation in about the last 9-10 yrs (and that was the red light fine ive posted about here)
so honestly, i not much interested in anything you have to say my friend , because its clear  you havent read anything ive written.
and for the very last time,,i will say this...... my post about running my business, wasnt posted to you.
i wasnt, and am not decrying the traffic cameras, i was questioning HOW are they legal.
the koolaide is now being served :)

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/5/2007 11:24:42 PM   
dragone


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Yup; you should be able to do just as you say, and as you well know, the rights issue, the constution just does not apply. If you have NO form of ID, walking down the street, highway or byway, a police approaches you, asks for ID, you have none, then you are at his disposal. Usually, you are carted off in the paddy wagon. Of course, you can argue the constution and your rights, and usually the policeman will have you carted off in the paddy wagon.

A street person, approached by a police, is sitting on the crub, he is asked to move, if he does not, he is carted off in the paddy wagon.

hey, that's life in the big city.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: omg!!! TRAFIIC CAMERAS SUCK!!! - 7/6/2007 2:45:26 AM   
LadyEllen


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On the subject of "who was driving" - we had a great little case here a while back. An off duty cop received a ticket for speeding from one of these cameras. Knowing how embarassing this potentially was, he claimed his friend had been driving and supplied the authorities with the name and address of his friend, who lived in France.

Now, normally the situation with EU citizens from other states getting caught here is, that the case is dropped - far too difficult (in fact impossible) to pursue them for an offence in the UK. Damned fine idea by our speeding cop.....

Except that some bright spark decided to do some digging on the friend, who it turned out didnt exist at all. The cop was dismissed from the police force and sentenced for perverting the course of justice - a serious offence. Maybe he should just have come clean in the first place?

E

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