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RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 8:55:06 AM   
Tenebrious


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: right behind you
Status: offline
without bothering to read through 6 pages...

quote:

ORIGINAL: satyrsnymph28
It troubles me that  for a site that is a PERSONALS site, most everyone is anti online relationships.  People get talked down to and disrespected because they have an issue to bring to the boards, but they haven't met the Dom/sub, that is the subject or reason for their post, in person...

I think its positively absurd that as a society, we're not very accepting of online relationships unless we're in one. 

First of all, a relationship isn't any more or less of anything just because you haven't met in person yet. I am unwilling to spend the gas that EVERYONE (Dom or sub) asks me to spend to go meet them for the first time, without knowing if we're compatable on any levels.  Especially within the  two week time frame that seems to be the only tolerable length of an online relationship. 

It seems silly to drive to someone and waste that time and money to discover things you could have easily found out if you had put a little more time into online conversation before you met in person. 

BUT here's the thing...

Problems... or questions... arise in person and online just the same... And even questions that would seem to stem from the beginning of a relationship still get groans of frustration or gasps of surprise from some of you out there... like it can't be possibly worth answering a question for someone who hasn't met their partner in person... or like its unrealistic to think that questions could arise that way to begin with because the relationship isn't anything serious.  

Every relationship has to start somewhere... a Dom or sub doesn't just appear out of nowhere perfectly made for you, without some time and effort put into it.

It just feels like an intolerance to me... and considering theres a lot of the world that isn't very tolerant of us as a whole... it would be nice if we could be kind, and help eachother without the "are you kidding me? they haven't met in person yet? let me post about how they should meet, or how stupid i think it is that they haven't, because in person contact is the only way to a real relationship" because thats unkind...


I disagree that there isn't a difference between online and in person.  However, I totally agree with the part about not rushing to meet.  Screening is a very important part of the process.  There's some real crazies out there and I don't need to be snagging any more of them...and that thing about compatibility too, I guess... 

< Message edited by Tenebrious -- 7/8/2007 8:56:29 AM >

(in reply to satyrsnymph28)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 9:09:27 AM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny
With under two hours as my max energy level I just don't offer enough. I think I'm saying it badly..but I don't think I've put this to words before.
Maybe it's that I actually do exist more in cyber than reality? I can almost always type. It is my connection where most others have person-to-person connections. Since I can't have that long term but I can manage online long term, it works for me.

I need more than I can give. Not being able to give hurts! It hurts inside of me. I wear out too fast & I tire too easily. Always always there is pain of the unfun variety. I'm hushing now.

cjenny, just because you can't clean house or suck cock or get laid or whatever for more than 2 hours at a time doesn't mean you can't give. One of my primary needs as a dominant? A sub who can and will keep me company and engage me verbally while I do housework, because for various reasons I won't do housework when I'm home by myself.  When you lose energy and need to lay down, are you still able to talk? If you are awake for more than two hours but during that time frame you've been basically sitting down except to possibly get drinks for your dominant, do you still run out of energy 2 hours later, or does it mean you are able to be awake and around for longer?

I know you might not be able to be and do and give the way a stereotypical healthy "subbie girl" can. But don't let that pain you, please. You still have a LOT that you can give, and I'm sure that your dom/me knows it. If you choose online relationships only because of the pain of not being able to be something you aren't, that is your choice. But remember that not all dom/mes want a stereotype...nor are they stereotypical.

~Warmest Wishes~
~E

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 10:18:45 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Elorin you really said everything I feel about this topic, thanks for your words & thoughts.
I hope your post is read & thought about how you present it all in a way that makes sense (to me at least).
Hoping too that I don't mess up the following quote

quote:

 
No matter what your body type, if you have a good personality, there is someone out there for you. There is, in fact, a fetish for the disabled. Now, if they think the best they can do is an online relationship, I certainly won't take it away from them. But unless they are lying to their online boyfriend/girlfriend and telling them that they aren't disabled, I would still wonder why their great partner doesn't want to meet them eventually.


Aquatic I posted the entire paragraph so that all the context can be seen because I keep focusing on the second sentence that I bolded.
I don't want to be someones fetish object because of the crap that is wrong with me  . It makes me feel like I'm nothing more than my medical problems.
Like 'I' don't exist but the 'Lupus Fibro Etc' exists. I really really want to be more than that description. But in RT I can't be. With under two hours as my max energy level I just don't offer enough. I think I'm saying it badly..but I don't think I've put this to words before.
Maybe it's that I actually do exist more in cyber than reality? I can almost always type. It is my connection where most others have person-to-person connections. Since I can't have that long term but I can manage online long term, it works for me.

I need more than I can give. Not being able to give hurts! It hurts inside of me. I wear out too fast & I tire too easily. Always always there is pain of the unfun variety. I'm hushing now.





Jenny, where there is a fetish for something there are people are attracted it to. Valyraen loves big breasts and bodies that look fertile. Some men make a fetish of it. Some are simply aroused by it and want women with those bodies.

If there is a group that fetishizes your body, there is a larger group that is attracted to it and a great personality.

Bottom line: The disabled do not need to rely on the internet. I have too many good friends who are disabled, some who can walk and some who can't, in happy and healthy relationships to ever believe that line of pure bullshit.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/8/2007 10:20:22 AM >


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to cjenny)
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RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 11:16:37 AM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline
(reply to the entire thread, not the person that appears as if I posted in response to)

I'm going to post against the grain here, but that's just me.

Personally, I find fault in those who claim that it's not a real relationship if it's online. People are so deconstructive here sometimes, mainly for inner purposes that have no meaning other than to validate their own desire to be heard.

Who is to decide what constitutes a real relationship with another person? We point fingers at the Internet and say that's not real because we've never made. I find it interesting that one of the greatest minds on the concept of masochism and submission comes a non-interpersonal relationship from the guy who we get the name masochism from. Sacher-Masoch had this huge relationship with a dominant woman by letter. He dedicated his life, his very being to her. Their conversation was one that lasted years with no physical contact whatsoever. Much of the foundation of our real life in person submissive behavior comes from the very foundation laid out in a non-contact relationship created by the original submissive.

Okay, history aside, what makes someone actually a submissive to another? Is it because he or she does what the dominant says, or is there something deeper? Is it because the dominant maintains a sense of control over another person? How does this relationship diminish with distance? If you're a slave to a person who goes on a business trip across the country, do you cease being submissive, even during phone conversations with your accepted owner? I remember my very first two weeks of moving in with my previous mistress after two years of having been her slave (but not live-in). She was scheduled to take a sailling trip near Florida, so I moved in, had two days with her, and then she was gone for two weeks. In that time, she wrote me letters and postcards and phoned me from time to time. Not at ONE moment did we ever consider ourselves NOT in a D/s relationship to each other.

I believe a huge disservice is being paid to the concept of online relationships because the concept of "one-wayism" is overwhelming the rest of the field. We should be overjoyed that people have found something and try to help them achieve more from what they found, or the very nature of having Collarme is useless. This is an ONLINE personals site. Hopefully, it leads to real time, but at the same time a new medium has been created where the world is able to communicate in real time without having to travel to real time distances. We should be embracing this rather than condemning it.

It often feels that there are people here who want so much to disqualify other relationships in hopes of making their own seem so much better. It reminds me of the "sanctity of marriage" arguments where gay marriage is seen as ruining regular marriage when everyone knows that no such thing is happening. We're doing the same thing here, even though we condemn the other attitude. We're condemning people who have been lucky enough to find each other online, all in the name of "sanctifying" our own relationships.

< Message edited by littlesarbonn -- 7/8/2007 11:17:37 AM >


_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 11:28:57 AM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline
Well it's okay that you see my way of living as a line of bullshit because like everything on this site, when its all done & said all that matters is that it works for me.
I don't think you quite understood what I tried to say about the fetish bit but I don't know how else to put it. It makes me uncomfortable, the thought of someone being with me cuz the emphasis/fetish they have (jeeez I've rewritten this sentence so much I've gotten lost haha). Do-over!
Uncomfortable: someone being attracted to, needing that part of me that is the part of me I fucking hate most. The part of me that just shouldn't 'be'. Does that explain it better? I wasn't disagreeing with you, just that I had a strong reaction to that one sentence so I had to explore it.
That's what I try and do here the most, is to explore & learn. I love learning about others, other values and views on stuff I wouldn't otherwise see. In RT it hurts my jaw too much when I talk for very long, my typing is my replacement.

It is quite possible I will learn that one day I can strive for a full time real life thing. It is possible I won't be able to do that as well. Nothing to me is permanent, stuff always changes & hopefully I can change with it. Hopefully my body will change. I'm currently healthier than I have been in many years, I've gotten stronger so I plan to continue to improve. I'm so very not content being the way I am lol.

I think less of this is self-imposed that most people can realise without me really going into detail.

But for now, for me. This works.
My reality may be heavy on the online side but I am so glad I have it. Crutch? Or a way out of isolation?
I think it is both. Right now I am okay with that balance.


My marriage of nearly 20 years ended because he could not emotionally, would not physically take care of me. So one day I told him I had set him free and he moved out. Maybe that whole hell of being married has skewed things. There was too much mental abuse & neglect to the point of physical abuse. Stuff I've never even referenced here before. This July will be 2 years divorced so it is quite possible I still see him as how he viewed me.
A burden & too much effort. I won't be that to anyone ever again if I have the choice not to.

Reality is wherever I am at the moment.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 11:58:18 AM   
DSwriter


Posts: 39
Joined: 2/14/2007
From: New Hope, PA
Status: offline
As the old saying goes...

You create your own reality.

Regardless of what anyone else thinks, or society's standards, if you are involved emotionally, online or off, and think of it as a relationship ... it is.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 12:13:56 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Well it's okay that you see my way of living as a line of bullshit because like everything on this site, when its all done & said all that matters is that it works for me.
I don't think you quite understood what I tried to say about the fetish bit but I don't know how else to put it. It makes me uncomfortable, the thought of someone being with me cuz the emphasis/fetish they have (jeeez I've rewritten this sentence so much I've gotten lost haha). Do-over!

What is bullshit is that those who are disabled must content themselves with online relationships and never hope for more.

Jenny I have H cup breasts. I know what it is like to have a man look at you and see you as nothing more then a fetish. I have said over and over that I would not want a man who only wanted me for my breats. But where there is a fetish for something there is reassurence that there are those who attracted to it as I am attracted to thin men.
quote:



Uncomfortable: someone being attracted to, needing that part of me that is the part of me I fucking hate most. The part of me that just shouldn't 'be'. Does that explain it better? I wasn't disagreeing with you, just that I had a strong reaction to that one sentence so I had to explore it.
That's what I try and do here the most, is to explore & learn. I love learning about others, other values and views on stuff I wouldn't otherwise see. In RT it hurts my jaw too much when I talk for very long, my typing is my replacement.

It is quite possible I will learn that one day I can strive for a full time real life thing. It is possible I won't be able to do that as well. Nothing to me is permanent, stuff always changes & hopefully I can change with it. Hopefully my body will change. I'm currently healthier than I have been in many years, I've gotten stronger so I plan to continue to improve. I'm so very not content being the way I am lol.

I hope you do learn that you can because there is no reason you shouldn't.
quote:


I think less of this is self-imposed that most people can realise without me really going into detail.

I disagree because I have seen disabled bodies not matter at all those who love them.
quote:


But for now, for me. This works.
My reality may be heavy on the online side but I am so glad I have it. Crutch? Or a way out of isolation?
I think it is both. Right now I am okay with that balance.


My marriage of nearly 20 years ended because he could not emotionally, would not physically take care of me. So one day I told him I had set him free and he moved out. Maybe that whole hell of being married has skewed things. There was too much mental abuse & neglect to the point of physical abuse. Stuff I've never even referenced here before. This July will be 2 years divorced so it is quite possible I still see him as how he viewed me.
A burden & too much effort. I won't be that to anyone ever again if I have the choice not to.

Reality is wherever I am at the moment.


I hope your future is wonderful. But I can not change my mind. I have seen too much happiness to ever believe this. 

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to cjenny)
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RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 2:05:57 PM   
amiciaN


Posts: 228
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline
cjenny--

I'm someone else who was in a 20 year relationship that was abusive.  The psychological isolation that accompanied it did almost as much if not more damage to me than than the original abuse.  My social skills got very rusty.  I became as awkward in a social setting as an adolescent, yet I was expected to behave like the adult I am.  My communication skills suffered as well, often making even casual small talk difficult.  Online, especially real-time text, was an effective tool for restoring those communication skills and a vital link to the world at large.  At least it was for me.  For you, it is a way to be able to 'converse' for a far longer period of time than you could otherwise, thus helping you free yourself from the boundaries of your world any physical limitations impose.  As far as I am concerned, a peron should use anything possible that doesn't harm another to escape that sort of damaging isolation regardless of what anyone else thinks.

It is obvious that your Dominant values you for far more than physical attributes and I am sure your friends and family do as well.  From what I have seen of your posts on these forums, I think you show a great deal of courage and honesty about your life circumstances.  I see far more to admire than to criitsize.  The good opinions of those that care about you seem to be well justified to me. 


The bottom line is that no, your disabilities don't define you.  They don't lower your value to those who truly matter; they are simply another fact of life to be dealt with.  In the end, it's the same girlie talk on the way to the rest room and back with my female friends, whether I'm pushing a manual wheelchair, trying to keep up with those way-faster-than-I-am scooter-chairs or walking side by side.   After all, we're all gonna do basically the same thing when we get in there. 

As always, this is my opinion etc., written with what will hopefully be seen as a bit humor as well.  ymmv


_____________________________

NChaka's amicia

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

(in reply to cjenny)
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RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 3:13:41 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty
oh btw, the whole vampire/werewolf thing...i did that...when i was 14...but it was very real to me...i did eventually meet this boy, and he was in fact who he said he was (my mom took me to his house to meet him and his parents on the way to see my aunt)...well except for the vampire werewolf thing...but...oh well....it was all a communication tool and he didn't like me cause i wouldn't give him a blow job once i got into his basement with him....oh no...yea well...life keeps going


Sorry that all he wanted was a blow job.....You were into the vampire ..werewolf thingy?  that's so odd and so fucking cool!....But I have to ask...So your mom takes you over to meet him....You never mentioned it...Did he like your mummy?


Edited to add...Im really fucking tired and obviously need some sleep....lol.


i thought it was incredibly hillarious...and if i were a little closer i would pat you on the head and tuck you into bed so you could get some sleep....well actually, i hope you're not awake almost 8 hours later...but you know what i mean

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 5:01:34 PM   
submgreenbay


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:



Do you use an online "real slave detector"? Is that the K650 model from Acme?


It's really not that difficult. But you rarely see this.

I think someone with serious intentions or those other than online play will at some point offer some self-disclosure at a personal level. Also the communication will tend to be on a friends basis first. Wanting to know if there is any basis for the relationship before getting into all the sexual stuff.

If you see that and are as equally honest, you might have something and might not need to make an order from Acme products.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 5:12:24 PM   
LeMis


Posts: 9255
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Bottom line???  A virtual dicksucking holds no fascination for me whatsoever.
You may infer what you wish.



hahahahaha id imagine for the sub the metallic taste would be a bitch too.....


no worries about spit or swallow either, lmao 


_____________________________

Make a mental note . . . oh, I see you're out of paper!
Make somebody happy. Mind your own business.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. — Lincoln

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 10:23:39 PM   
Tenebrious


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: right behind you
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny
I don't think you quite understood what I tried to say about the fetish bit but I don't know how else to put it. It makes me uncomfortable, the thought of someone being with me cuz the emphasis/fetish they have (jeeez I've rewritten this sentence so much I've gotten lost haha). Do-over!
Uncomfortable: someone being attracted to, needing that part of me that is the part of me I fucking hate most. The part of me that just shouldn't 'be'.


I think you don't give yourself enough credit.  Your affliction may limit what you can do, but it doesn't define who you are.  I personally think you seem interesting and attractive - not because of it, or in spite of it, but just because you're you.  I can't imagine that you should have so much trouble finding people that would like you without needing to have a "fetish" that enables them to.

Of course, I'm in the camp that believes there is an important difference between interaction online and face to face (based on my own experience - not to invalidate any other views), so I'm only going by what I can see from this perspective, but pictures and text are usually pretty telling about a person even if they aren't the total package.

OK, I'm done with the corny speech now... 

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Reality is... - 7/8/2007 11:44:33 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
Who is to decide what constitutes a real relationship with another person?


Each of us, individually, and society as a whole on the basis of consensus.

quote:


Much of the foundation of our real life in person submissive behavior comes from the very foundation laid out in a non-contact relationship created by the original submissive.


And I would say that he did not have a real relationship with her.  The relationship he did have was with the thought of her, and although this led to his writings, it does not make it any more real.

quote:


I believe a huge disservice is being paid to the concept of online relationships because the concept of "one-wayism" is overwhelming the rest of the field.


No one is bashing online relationships.  What is being debated is the "reality" of online-only relationships.  Even then, no one is really bashing online only relationships.  They are simply stating their opinions that online only relationships lack the basic requirements of a real relationship.  The word "real" in this context is being used to mean "the opposite of fantasy."

quote:


Hopefully, it leads to real time


Why should it hopefully lead to real time?  Aren't online only relationships just as good and satisfying as relationships between people who have met real time?

quote:


We're condemning people who have been lucky enough to find each other online, all in the name of "sanctifying" our own relationships.


Where do you see the condemnation???  People are saying that 2lbs oranges weigh more than 1lbs oranges.  They are not saying that 2lbs oranges are better than 1lbs oranges.  Reality isn't always better than fantasy, but it is always more real.

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to littlesarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Reality is... - 7/9/2007 4:03:30 AM   
wwwkevinww


Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline
Reality and Online are two different things, and most people have or are learning this.  I have had countless meetings with people, and had one girl with a bum leg that was just in awe of me.  My problem was that she was so dumbfounded that I couldn't get her to have a normal adult conversation.  I felt like I was dealing with a child mentally and she was way too freaked out about her very young child she was raising.....overconcerned....
I was majorly turned off, not because of her bum leg or her looks, she looked decent enough, but she wouldn't talk to me about normal "first date" type stuff......

Had another convo with a girl who I asked if she had a double chin, she said she didn't, I went there, she did....appearantly she was deluding herself...(she had a gift of the gab, and intelligent)

Another one I met lied about being married, but told me in our first meeting her marriage meant little to her, effectively telling me she was interested.  I had to inform her that appearantly her marriage meant more to me than to her, but at least she was honest.......

these are just a few examples.....I have had countless online "get infatuated" budding relationships, only to find online is not the same as real.....there is also an advantage in online relationships in that you can learn about them to a certain extent (if they are being as honest as possible) and you can weed out alot of people upfront without alot of effort going on dates only to find they really aren't suitable for you and still have to suffer time with someone you rather not chat with.....

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)
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RE: Reality is... - 7/9/2007 7:05:35 AM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline
amiciaN all I can say is wow & thank you. Thank you so much for understanding where I'm coming from in regards to so many things. Heh you made me cry.

Tenebrious I happen to like corny stuff  . Thanks for your words as well.

It's strange, when another understands bits of me then those bits don't feel so jagged inside. It almost takes away some of the inner negativity and frustration, especially frustration.

Gonna have a smiley day today, I just know it.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to amiciaN)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Reality is... - 7/9/2007 7:25:18 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Interesting thread.  My three long-term relationships all started out online.  One was married and so the longest she was ever here was a month.  Of the other two, one lived here for 6 months and the other lived here for 3 months during a "leave of absence" from work.

I live in a small town and have discussed before the problems I encountered with my proclivities being outed.  My practice is here.  I have looked in Colorado...been to munches, had several coffee dates and dinner dates but the fact that I live in a small town did not do much for them.  Now perhaps there are other submissives in other small towns in Colorado who might be interested and O.K. with a small town.  But in all honesty, I have not met one from a town my size or smaller within Colorado.  Is it me?  Possibly.  I would be among the first to tell you I have my faults.  But I do find it ironic that the most successful relationships in D/s that I have had started out online and yes, moved to offline, and were from other areas besides my own state.

I too prefer offline and do not substitute online for it.  But I do think that it can be, when used properly, a good tool for meeting and getting to know people from the intellectual and belief side without the immediate distraction of the "physical" aspects.


I think there is validity here...If I lived in a small town this would be a tremendous outlet to meet someone and they are probably not going to live next door due to my remote or small town status. Since immediately meeting is not usually a viable option then you have to proceed online....Can it be an effective tool? ...Absolutely!...If someone is sane has the ability to follow your conversations and mentally meets whatever standards you set forth...And when you finally meet has the physical attributes that you require ( I know that some people don't care about such things....Remember,....I am incredibly shallow)Then there is no reason it can't work...There are obvious pitfalls that lurk when it comes to online that if possible should be avoided.

If given the choice, Creative D, I'm sure you would rather bypass the online crud and go straight to real time...Right?


In a heartbeat, domiguy...in a heartbeat. 

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: Reality is... - 7/9/2007 7:35:27 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I too prefer offline and do not substitute online for it.  But I do think that it can be, when used properly, a good tool for meeting and getting to know people from the intellectual and belief side without the immediate distraction of the "physical" aspects.

.....well said, Creative..........luci


Thank you...

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Reality is... - 7/9/2007 11:51:42 AM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
No one is bashing online relationships.  What is being debated is the "reality" of online-only relationships.  Even then, no one is really bashing online only relationships.  They are simply stating their opinions that online only relationships lack the basic requirements of a real relationship.  The word "real" in this context is being used to mean "the opposite of fantasy."

Actually, that was the premise of this thread. People who bash online relationships. The condemnation and superiority of calling them "just pen pals" is also a form of bashing.
quote:

Why should it hopefully lead to real time?  Aren't online only relationships just as good and satisfying as relationships between people who have met real time?

Because lots of people prefer to meet once their comfort level is reached, and just don't want others telling them "your relationship is invalid" before this point. No one was glorifying the "online, forever, never ever meet in person" relationship. They were simply trying to say how frustrating it is when someone like you says their relationship isn't real because they haven't met face to face yet. Can an online relationship be good and satisfying? YES. Is it ~as~ good and satisfying? Depends on the couple. Does the fact that it may be less satisfying than being in person make it invalid, wrong, or "not real" - NO.

quote:

Where do you see the condemnation???  People are saying that 2lbs oranges weigh more than 1lbs oranges.  They are not saying that 2lbs oranges are better than 1lbs oranges.  Reality isn't always better than fantasy, but it is always more real.

Been seeing condemnation both in this thread and in multiple threads at various times on collarme.com. That's what the OP was about...that kind of condemnation.
Online relationships are not the SAME as face to face relationships. But they ARE real and valid.

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Reality is... - 7/9/2007 12:14:14 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin
Actually, that was the premise of this thread. People who bash online relationships.


I uunderstand, and disagree with, the original premise of this thread.  People who believe online-only relationships are not real (or "fantasy") are not bashing them.  Fantasy can be great!  It can be fulfilling.  It can make people feel real emotions.  The only thing a fantasy can't be is "real".  Online-only relationships are fantasy until you actually meet in person.

quote:


Because lots of people prefer to meet once their comfort level is reached, and just don't want others telling them "your relationship is invalid" before this point.


Validity and reality are two distinct features of a relationship.  I am not suggesting that online-only relationships are not valid.  Just that they are not real.

quote:


They were simply trying to say how frustrating it is when someone like you says their relationship isn't real because they haven't met face to face yet.


And I get frustrated when it rains after I wash my car...reality sometimes stinks.  A relationship is pure fantasy until it gets out from behind the computer.


quote:


Been seeing condemnation both in this thread and in multiple threads at various times on collarme.com.


Maybe you are seeing it where it is not intended.  Most (if not all) of the people who have spoken about the reality (or lack thereof) of online-only relationships have indeed had online-only relationships.  I  had a virtual slave for a few months when I first got into this thing.  But that is all she ever was, a virtual slave.  She never got to be anything more than a fantasy, though it sure felt real at the time.  We are not putting online-only relationships down...we are simply describing their place in our lives.  Once one has moved from online-only to something real, the contrast is simply to stark to ignore.

Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 7/9/2007 12:15:32 PM >


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Reality is... - 7/9/2007 12:28:03 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
I uunderstand, and disagree with, the original premise of this thread.  People who believe online-only relationships are not real (or "fantasy") are not bashing them.  Fantasy can be great!  It can be fulfilling.  It can make people feel real emotions.  The only thing a fantasy can't be is "real".  Online-only relationships are fantasy until you actually meet in person.

Hours spent together on phone or computer isn't a fantasy. The only fantasy is what you do in your head "together" while you jerk off. The actual time spent together isn't fantasy, nor are the conversations shared, and the connections formed.

Sure, online only relationships are NOT face to face relationships. That doesn't mean they aren't "real." Maybe the problem here is your use of the world real. A fantasy is something you dream up. I didn't dream up 2 years of knowing a sub online before he became my submissive and came to meet me in person. Those weren't fantasies. The online "scenes" we had were fantasies, but the relationship wasn't, nor were the conversations or phone calls.
quote:

Maybe you are seeing it where it is not intended.  Most (if not all) of the people who have spoken about the reality (or lack thereof) of online-only relationships have indeed had online-only relationships.  I  had a virtual slave for a few months when I first got into this thing.  But that is all she ever was, a virtual slave.  She never got to be anything more than a fantasy, though it sure felt real at the time.  We are not putting online-only relationships down...we are simply describing their place in our lives.  Once one has moved from online-only to something real, the contrast is simply to stark to ignore.

I'll accept that in your case you aren't ~trying~ to condemn. There are situations where I was reading the thread and condemnation and judgment of invalidity were certainly the case. Put downs were NOT imagined.

No one wants to say theat online only is the SAME as flesh. Just that we have as much right to find the relationship fulfilling, that it is real and valid too. Different, but real and valid.

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 140
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