quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
If I were a contractor and I found out my competition was using illegal alien labor I'd rat them out in a minute!
It's a Federal Felony to hire illegals.
Any contractor who does that shit deserves whatever happens to them. Fire, beatings, sabotage their equipment anything.

quote:


alumbro,
i understand what you are saying....
but that is one small part of the bill, i was refering to the ::: anyone suspected of breaking the law.
and im guessing the the lawyers working for the state have looked thru all of this, to see that it is all legal.... even if some find it distasteful.... 

quote:


and again, if i get pulled over, they take my liscence and regristration..then they spend 15 minutes running a check on me. if it takes an extra minute or two to run a residence check on me, i am ok with that... 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Anyway, what exactly is the remedy are you suggesting?  You said every citizen should just carry a birth certificate and be prepared to produce it when asked.  Well, what would that prove?  A birth certificate proves that XYZ was born in the United States, not that YOU are person XYZ.  So we'd all have to have government-issued photo ID instead?  Great.  Just imagine how many fuckups--at taxpayers' expense--we'll have to deal with when that arrives.  You know what's going on right now with the passport fiasco, right?

The point is that laws like this allow governments to harass citizens, and governments have a habit of taking advantage of privileges like that in ways that citizens never envisioned or intended.  That's why the Constitution doesn't permit it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yeah, self-employment tax is another big government scam.  EVERYTHING is stacked in favor of mega-corporations.  (That has something to do with why they're never going to crack down on companies that hire illegal labor, but I'm not going to get into that.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilaMale1958

My social security cost are twice what an employed person pays because I'm self employed (so that adds 12+ % of the cost that are taken away from my income)

L&M, sure that stuff can be stopped.
Two words; "Gasoline" "Matches."
When *our* govt. refuses to protect us we have the right to protect ourselves.
Man, I wish Bush would just fuckin LEAVE!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilaMale1958

I am a self employed contractor. I play be the "RULES".
No I don't get paid in cash, all my customers pay me by check, and YES I do declare it and I pay my taxes on it.
I get permits for my jobs and I carry workman's compensation for my men (that adds 15% to the wages I pay)
Would you prefer to go back to what existed before Workman's comp was instituted.  Remember... when you would be 100% personally liable for any and all damages.

My social security cost are twice what an employed person pays because I'm self employed (so that adds 12+ % of the cost that are taken away from my income)
This is not true.  Your costs for social security are exactly the same as one of those who work for you.  The fact that half is deducted before their check is written is hardly relevant.  When an employer says he is paying half of the employees social security it implies that he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart.  The fact is that he does so because it is part of the employees compensation for the work he does.


Health insurance ... Thank god I'm covered under my wife's plan, but she is due to retire in 6 years and I'm scared as hell about what future cost might be.
I carry liability and auto insurance and I set aside money for my retirement.
Bottom line, I'm not a burden on society but a contributor.
If I bid on a job compared to a contractor who is an illegal immigrant or who hires illegal immigrants I'd lose every time.
How hard is it to call immigration on the illegal contractor?

On top of that, there is no way that I can own a very modest house, and pay for its upkeep, mortgage, insurance, and all the other associated cost on what an illegal immigrant gets paid. It makes me sick to see other contractors get away with hiring illegals and/or not pay the insurance cost as they should; however, I also can't police what goes on. Doing that is outside my ability and that is why we have made it one of the function of the government. The government is us and we have to get our act together, and it is the governments job to police the boarders and to uphold the rules that we have established. In addition, the "guest worker proposal" is in reality a means to export low paid jobs to workers who live in our country but who are not citizens. And while I'm on it, this crap about having "guest workers" take the jobs that Americans don't want is bull. An American can't live in his own country on the wages that are paid for those jobs, so why would anyone here bother to take them? The boarders should be monitored to allow those people into this country who we determine to let in.
You do not need to increase the boarder patrol all you need to do is raise the minimum wage to about $15 an hour and the illegals wont be able to get a job because they will all be filled by citizens.
Bottom line is you get what you pay for.  If you are paying $8 an hour you get illegals because citizens won't work for that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aeon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Anyway, what exactly is the remedy are you suggesting?  You said every citizen should just carry a birth certificate and be prepared to produce it when asked.  Well, what would that prove?  A birth certificate proves that XYZ was born in the United States, not that YOU are person XYZ.  So we'd all have to have government-issued photo ID instead?  Great.  Just imagine how many fuckups--at taxpayers' expense--we'll have to deal with when that arrives.  You know what's going on right now with the passport fiasco, right?

The point is that laws like this allow governments to harass citizens, and governments have a habit of taking advantage of privileges like that in ways that citizens never envisioned or intended.  That's why the Constitution doesn't permit it.

i  don't care WHAT kind of ID i have to show...in fact i don't care if they have to issue a whole new type of citizenship ID...i'll carry it!  You're just knit-picking now....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Let's try to get to the real issue.  We've been fondling it and diddling with it but we haven't really attacked it.  Why do you think the current Administration hasn't gone after companies that hire illegal aliens?  Because $$ reigns supreme in this country & lotsa lil bush's friends own those companies What would you say is their reasoning?  ya don't piss off the folks with the $$ 

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Let's try to get to the real issue.  We've been fondling it and diddling with it but we haven't really attacked it.  Why do you think the current Administration hasn't gone after companies that hire illegal aliens?  Because $$ reigns supreme in this country & lotsa lil bush's friends own those companies What would you say is their reasoning?  ya don't piss off the folks with the $$ 

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yeah, self-employment tax is another big government scam.  EVERYTHING is stacked in favor of mega-corporations.  (That has something to do with why they're never going to crack down on companies that hire illegal labor, but I'm not going to get into that.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilaMale1958

My social security cost are twice what an employed person pays because I'm self employed (so that adds 12+ % of the cost that are taken away from my income)

L&M, sure that stuff can be stopped.
Two words; "Gasoline" "Matches."
When *our* govt. refuses to protect us we have the right to protect ourselves.
Man, I wish Bush would just fuckin LEAVE!!!

popeye:
Arson is a felony.  Conspiracy to commit arson is a felony.  Inciting others to commit a felony is a felony (ask Tom Metzger)
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aeon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Anyway, what exactly is the remedy are you suggesting?  You said every citizen should just carry a birth certificate and be prepared to produce it when asked.  Well, what would that prove?  A birth certificate proves that XYZ was born in the United States, not that YOU are person XYZ.  So we'd all have to have government-issued photo ID instead?  Great.  Just imagine how many fuckups--at taxpayers' expense--we'll have to deal with when that arrives.  You know what's going on right now with the passport fiasco, right?

The point is that laws like this allow governments to harass citizens, and governments have a habit of taking advantage of privileges like that in ways that citizens never envisioned or intended.  That's why the Constitution doesn't permit it.

i  don't care WHAT kind of ID i have to show...in fact i don't care if they have to issue a whole new type of citizenship ID...i'll carry it!  You're just knit-picking now....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

We don't live in a police state; let's try to keep it that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

An interesting thread. I have several comments relating to others post.

1) Calling an illegal alien and undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug dealer an unregistered pharmacist.

2) The 2nd amendment is one of only two places in the US Constitution that tells us of a right AND tells us why.

A well regulated militia, BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Ed Vieira, a renowned Constitutional scholar and attorney, has written eloquently on the status of our various state militias.

3) There was mention of a social security card/number. Many are unaware that this Federal Government program is voluntary.

4) Taxes were also mentioned by several. Big, big topic. I'd like to say this: In 1982 President Reagan (you know, that small government guy that raised the national debt to record levels) appointed a commission to study governemnt spending, called the grace Commission. The findings of the commission were, in the broad strokes, this. Not one penny of the money the government confiscates from you through federal income taxes goes to pay for any services. All of it is eaten up by governmental waste and payments on the national debt, and the interest. Services are paid for by borrowing. A lot of the money borrowed is from the private corporation we call The Federal Reserve System. They are as "Federal" as Federal Express.

5) We don't live in a democracy. The founders would not have risked life and limb to form a democracy. They considered it "mob rule" and knew the mob would in short order vote away all the freedoms they had fought to garuntee themselves and their assigns. We are instead a Constitutional Republic.

6) I want that all citizens be required to read and understand our constitution. But then requiring that might pose some problems for libertarian oriented subversive patriot.

Be well and live free,

Uncle Nasty

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

The Social Security tax being voluntary is only partially correct.  When it was enacted, there were certain jobs that were considered covered and consequently those that were considered uncovered.  Congress has subsequently passed laws that has forced coverage to almost every type of employment (with some exceptions for state and federal employees).