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RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 8:51:40 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Look, do you dispute that people are being held without arraignment on criminal charges, in US Jurisdiction, for longer than 72 hours?



You and I both know he will dispute this.

His rationale will be that it is ok to do to terrorists, foreigners, moonies, or whoever.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 8:52:59 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
You see, Popeye, it's the DETAILS we disagree on, not generally the end result.

*IF* there's a case against Padilla, just move him along through the Criminal Justice System, and get it the hell over with.

Holding him in solitary for 4 years just to destroy his mind cost us HOW MUCH MONEY???


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 8:57:11 PM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux


I asked for one and you provided zero.



Oh, I get it. You have a problem accepting reality.

Look, do you dispute that people are being held without arraignment on criminal charges, in US Jurisdiction, for longer than 72 hours?




No, but I also know that it's not just anyone that's being held under those circumstances and that the entire issue is wrapped up in the complex legal issue of how an "enemy combatant" is defined, and what the proper response is to a determined enemy that basically hides among civilians and is trained to use the very freedoms granted to him by our civil liberties to carry out his plans.

So, I guess you could say that the full context of that fact just bothers me a lot less than a fanatical jihadist with a nuke.

You're a big fan of Lincoln.  You might look into his relationship with habeus corpus sometime.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 8:58:52 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You see, Popeye, it's the DETAILS we disagree on, not generally the end result.

*IF* there's a case against Padilla, just move him along through the Criminal Justice System, and get it the hell over with.

Holding him in solitary for 4 years just to destroy his mind cost us HOW MUCH MONEY???



Exactly.  He get his phone call and his speedy trial and his miranda rights and a jury of his peers finds him guilty of terrorist activities, then lock him up and throw away the key.

They way he was treated reduces us to the same level as those some of us claim to be fighting.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 9:01:34 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux


I asked for one and you provided zero.



Oh, I get it. You have a problem accepting reality.

Look, do you dispute that people are being held without arraignment on criminal charges, in US Jurisdiction, for longer than 72 hours?




No, but I also know that it's not just anyone that's being held under those circumstances and that the entire issue is wrapped up in the complex legal issue of how an "enemy combatant" is defined, and what the proper response is to a determined enemy that basically hides among civilians and is trained to use the very freedoms granted to him by our civil liberties to carry out his plans.


BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

How do you put together so many words, yet not know what the words

"ANY PERSON"

clearly mean?

I guess your AGENDA requires you to deny the CLEARLY WRITTEN TEXT of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

*on edit*: Oh, did I actually *need* to quote the 14th Amendment?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/15/2007 9:02:43 PM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 9:02:20 PM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle



Freedom to hop on a plane, with a bottle of water and a full tube of shampoo.


I agree...that's ridiculous. It's like there are people out there trying to blow up planes or something.

Yeesh.



If you are willing to trade your Liberty and Freedom for a false sense of Security, you are by definition a coward, and unworthy of the name "American".

Best of Luck to You.



Your initial claim was that Bush took away all our freedoms.  In defense of that argument, you've pointed out the crushing inconvenience of not being able to carry a bottle of shampoo onto an airplane, and Sinergy has pointed out the case of terrorist-in-training Jose Padilla, who's now battling his way thru the courts, which by most accounts is as it should be.

You can call me a coward if you want, but I still don't think either one of you has defended this initial point very well at all.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 9:08:03 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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Sinergy, that "reduces us to the level of" stuff doesn't bother me at all.
I want my govt. Troops to be a hundred times more brutal than al qeada is in persuing and killing every last one of them.
I'm really surprised that the CIA hasn't killed Bin Laden's whole family and I mean 5th cousins three times removed.
Where the hell is all this "overwhelming power" that we should be using?
And some of the more..."intellectual" types are worried about Ass Pyramids?
It should be; "where would you rather be, in a US Military prison or in an al qeada prison?"
"Al Qeada!!!!!!!! Al Qeada!!! PLEEEEEEASE!"
I mean what, we're supposed to be "polite" before we blow some al qeada guys fuckin head off?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 9:10:50 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux
Your initial claim was that Bush took away all our freedoms. In defense of that argument, you've pointed out the crushing inconvenience of not being able to carry a bottle of shampoo onto an airplane,


If it is YOUR SHAMPOO, you have, in a Free Country, and ABSOLUTE RIGHT to do with it, as you choose.

You asked for an example. There it is. You choose to deny the existence of the example, and attempt to dismiss the relevance.

That is YOUR PROBLEM, SUNSHINE.

quote:


and Sinergy has pointed out the case of terrorist-in-training Jose Padilla, who's now battling his way thru the courts, which by most accounts is as it should be.


Go learn what the phrase "Due Process" means, cupcake. You need to bone up on your civics class.


quote:


You can call me a coward if you want, but I still don't think either one of you has defended this initial point very well at all.


What are your TRUE feelings about Freedom and Liberty. Are you brave enough to deserve Freedom and Liberty? Do you accept the risk of OTHER PEOPLE enjoying Liberty and Freedom?

Some would say your acceptance of curtailment of your absolute property rights is all the evidence they need to answer those questions.

False Patriots we got enough of.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 9:25:35 PM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux
Your initial claim was that Bush took away all our freedoms. In defense of that argument, you've pointed out the crushing inconvenience of not being able to carry a bottle of shampoo onto an airplane,


If it is YOUR SHAMPOO, you have, in a Free Country, and ABSOLUTE RIGHT to do with it, as you choose.

You asked for an example. There it is. You choose to deny the existence of the example, and attempt to dismiss the relevance.

That is YOUR PROBLEM, SUNSHINE.


You seem hung up on the shampoo.


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 9:58:03 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sinergy, that "reduces us to the level of" stuff doesn't bother me at all.
I want my govt. Troops to be a hundred times more brutal than al qeada is in persuing and killing every last one of them.
I'm really surprised that the CIA hasn't killed Bin Laden's whole family and I mean 5th cousins three times removed.
Where the hell is all this "overwhelming power" that we should be using?
And some of the more..."intellectual" types are worried about Ass Pyramids?
It should be; "where would you rather be, in a US Military prison or in an al qeada prison?"
"Al Qeada!!!!!!!! Al Qeada!!! PLEEEEEEASE!"
I mean what, we're supposed to be "polite" before we blow some al qeada guys fuckin head off?



i hope this helps clear up a few things about bin laden and gw.  Now this is just from the first few entries in my google search out of millions of hits.

The Bush-Bin Laden Money Connection

(picture of bush sitting with the binladen family here)

"Former President George Bush met with King Fahd, right, on a trip to Saudi Arabia last year as part of his work for the Carlyle Group." (NYT, 3/5/01)

A Second Bush Oil Deal To Come With Murky Ties To Saudi Financiers And Osama Bin Laden

"On September 24, President George W. Bush appeared at a press conference in the White House Rose Garden to announce a crackdown on the financial networks of terrorists and those who support them. �U.S. banks that have assets of these groups or individuals must freeze their accounts,� Bush declared. �And U.S. citizens or businesses are prohibited from doing business with them.�

"But the president, who is now enjoying an astounding 92 percent approval rating, hasn�t always practiced what he is now preaching: Bush�s own businesses were once tied to financial figures in Saudi Arabia who currently support bin Laden.

"In 1979, Bush�s first business, Arbusto Energy, obtained financing from James Bath, a Houstonian and close family friend. One of many investors, Bath gave Bush $50,000 for a 5 percent stake in Arbusto. At the time, Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, head of the wealthy Saudi Arabian family and a brother (one of 17) to Osama bin Laden. It has long been suspected, but never proven, that the Arbusto money came directly from Salem bin Laden. In a statement issued shortly after the September 11 attacks, the White House vehemently denied the connection, insisting that Bath invested his own money, not Salem bin Laden�s, in Arbusto.

"In conflicting statements, Bush at first denied ever knowing Bath, then acknowledged his stake in Arbusto and that he was aware Bath represented Saudi interests. In fact, Bath has extensive ties, both to the bin Laden family and major players in the scandal-ridden Bank of Commerce and Credit International (BCCI) who have gone on to fund Osama bin Laden. BCCI defrauded depositors of $10 billion in the �80s in what has been called the �largest bank fraud in world financial history� by former Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau. During the �80s, BCCI also acted as a main conduit for laundering money intended for clandestine CIA activities, ranging from financial support to the Afghan mujahedin to paying intermediaries in the Iran-Contra affair.

"When Salem bin Laden died in 1988, powerful Saudi Arabian banker and BCCI principal Khalid bin Mahfouz inherited his interests in Houston. Bath ran a business for bin Mahfouz in Houston and joined a partnership with bin Mahfouz and Gaith Pharaon, BCCI�s frontman in Houston�s Main Bank.

"The Arbusto deal wasn�t the last time Bush looked to highly questionable sources to invest in his oil dealings. After several incarnations, Arbusto emerged in 1986 as Harken Energy Corporation. When Harken ran into trouble a year later, Saudi Sheik Abdullah Taha Bakhsh purchased a 17.6 percent stake in the company. Bakhsh was a business partner with Pharaon in Saudi Arabia; his banker there just happened to be bin Mahfouz.

"Though Bush told the Wall Street Journal he had �no idea� BCCI was involved in Harken�s financial dealings, the network of connections between Bush and BCCI is so extensive that the Journal concluded their investigation of the matter in 1991 by stating: �The number of BCCI-connected people who had dealings with Harken�all since George W. Bush came on board�raises the question of whether they mask an effort to cozy up to a presidential son.� Or even the president: Bath finally came under investigation by the FBI in 1992 for his Saudi business relationships, accused of funneling Saudi money through Houston in order to influence the foreign policies of the Reagan and first Bush administrations.

"Worst of all, bin Mahfouz allegedly has been financing the bin Laden terrorist network�making Bush a U.S. citizen who has done business with those who finance and support terrorists. According to USA Today, bin Mahfouz and other Saudis attempted to transfer $3 million to various bin Laden front operations in Saudi Arabia in 1999. ABC News reported the same year that Saudi officials stopped bin Mahfouz from contributing money directly to bin Laden. (Bin Mahfouz�s sister is also a wife of Osama bin Laden, a fact that former CIA Director James Woolsey revealed in 1998 Senate testimony.)

"When President Bush announced he is hot on the trail of the money used over the years to finance terrorism, he must realize that trail ultimately leads not only to Saudi Arabia, but to some of the same financiers who originally helped propel him into the oil business and later the White House. The ties between bin Laden and the White House may be much closer than he is willing to acknowledge." --Wayne Madsen, 10/22/01

Wayne Madsen, an investigative journalist based in Washington, is the author of Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa 1993-1999.


http://www.bushwatch.com/bushmoney.htm


and the story goes on:

Money connections between Bush Republicans and Osama bin Laden go way back and the political and economic connections have remained unbroken for 20 years. And what appears to be a "new" alliance with Pakistan is merely a new manifestation of a decades-long partnership in the heroin trade.

Conveniently ignored in all of the press coverage since the tragic events of Sept. 11 is the fact that on May 17 Secretary of State Colin Powell announced a gift of $43 million to the Taliban as a purport
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/09_18_01_bushbin.html



How about some quotes:
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)


MORE:

Bush Senior Met With Bin Laden's Brother on 9/11

Paul Joseph Watson

Comment: Despite studying September 11 for two years solid, one fact I only just discovered is that George W. Bush's father was meeting with Osama bin Laden's brother, Shafig bin Laden, in the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, Washington, on the morning of 9/11. They were on Carlyle Group business just a few miles from where hijackers supposedly acting on behalf of Osama bin Laden would fly a plane into the Pentagon.

Recall that the chief financier of the so-called hijackers, Pakistan's Chief Spy General Mahmoud Ahmad, was meeting with Bush administration officials the week before 9/11. He also met with Bob Graham and Porter Goss on the morning of the attacks, who would
http://www.prisonplanet.com/041203metwithbinladen.html

More:
#
FBI PROTECTS OSAMA BIN LADEN’S “RIGHT TO PRIVACY” IN DOCUMENT RELEASE - Judicial Watch, the public interest group that fights government corruption, announced today that it has obtained documents through the Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”) in which the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”) has invoked privacy right protections on behalf of al Qaeda terror leader Osama bin Laden. In a September 24, 2003 declassified “Secret” FBI report obtained by Judicial Watch, the FBI invoked Exemption 6 under FOIA law on behalf of bin Laden, which permits the government to withhold all information about U.S. persons in “personnel and medical files and similar files” when the disclosure of such information “would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.” (5 U.S.C. § 552(b)(6) (2000)) - Before invoking privacy protections for Osama bin Laden under Exemption 6, the FBI should have conducted a balancing “test” of the public's right to disclosure against the individual's right to privacy
http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_5286.shtml

More:
CIA closes down unit that was hunting Bin Laden

RAW STORY
Published: Monday July 3, 2006

Print This | Email This

The CIA has closed down a secret unit that for a decade had the mission of hunting Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants, intelligence officials said Monday, the NEW YORK TIMES reports Tuesday. Full story here; Excerpts follow.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/CIA_closes_down_unit_that_was_0703.html


More:

CIA: Osama Helped Bush in '04

By Robert Parry
July 4, 2006

On Oct. 29, 2004, just four days before the U.S. presidential election, al-Qaeda leader Osama bin-Laden released a videotape denouncing George W. Bush. Some Bush supporters quickly spun the diatribe as “Osama’s endorsement of John Kerry.” But behind the walls of the CIA, analysts had concluded the opposite: that bin-Laden was trying to help Bush gain a second term.

Today’s conclusion: bin-Laden’s message was clearly designed to assist the President’s reelection.

“At the five o’clock meeting, [deputy CIA director] John McLaughlin opened the issue with the consensus view: ‘Bin-Laden certainly did a nice favor today for the President.’”
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/070306.html

More:

Editor's Note: Not many people know that, after September 11, 2001, Osama bin Laden issued a statement on tape that he had nothing to do with the attacks on America and that such actions were against the teachings of Islam. Americans were prevented from accessing this information because we were told that Osama could possibly have an embedded "secret code" in the tape that would alert other terrorists cells to "activate" and target other American cities.

Here is the transcript of what you were not allowed to hear from Osama binLaden's own mouth:

" I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States." (25)

Later, another video tape miraculously appeared to validate his guilt in the attacks. The video tape, showing a man who was allegedly Osama bin Laden discussing and bragging about his rold in the 9-11 attacks, was shown on American television along with Arabic-English translations of the conversations. Did you know that this tape has since been recognized as a fake? Not many news media reported this. The "Osama" in the tape is actually a known Egyptian militant who is not as tall and much too heavy to be Osama. I'll just bet you didn't know that tape was a fake! It wasn't reported on CNN.

Now we have had another audio tape allegedly from Osama. We were told that it is "proof" that he committed the 9-11 attacks. The "Osama" voice is apparently saying that the so-called 10th hijacker who was charged in American courts is actually innocent, but the real purpose of the tape is to acknowledge Osama's admission of ordering the 9-11 attacks. Well, hold on because now it appears that this tape is also fake. It's yet another Bush disinformation camapign to make people angry at Islamics and Arabs and to continue the blame game and justify the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as a prelude to yet another miserable war in Iran.

But... read for yourself...
http://www.viewzone.com/osama.html


People really think that a leopard can change its spots!  Just like ole hebert fucking supporting the nazis during ww2 here we have gw supporting bin laden and of course bin laden returning the favor LOL

ever think that just "maybe" bush is laughing at us?  maybe???????










< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/15/2007 10:03:46 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 10:26:58 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
I'm bored so I'm going to put forth a few things that need clearing up.

1) In most parts of this country it is very difficult to get a job as a firefighter. Even navy vets, who are all trained and qualified firefighters, have a very hard time getting in to most departments. It is a plum job reserved for relatives of firefighters and the politically connected. In most of the rest of the country the pay is lousy or completely non existant. Professional firefighters who are on duty 72 or 96 hours a week should make a reasonable living and not need to deliver pizzas on their days off.

2) Rights I had in 2000 that I no longer have, Habeus Corpus, right to a speedy trial, freedom of association, freedom of movement, no warrantless searches. About the only ammendment of the Bill of Rights GWB hasn't trampled is the 3rd.

3) If the war is such a good thing why are neither of the Bush daughters serving? What about the service aged relatives of the other major neocon chickenhawks? Why is it all right for my relatives to be sent to the that hellhole but not theirs?

4) Jihadists do not pose a true threat to this republic. If an ethical and responsible leadership was in place, read not neocon or dominionist scum, the 9/11 attacks would not have been viewed as cause to curtail our freedoms nor would any other terrorist attack cause any such limiting of rights except in the very shortest of terms. We fought WWI and WWII with significant minorities of our citizens actively in support of our enemies and we did not need to shred the Constitution to win either of those conflicts.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 7/15/2007 10:35:05 PM >

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RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/15/2007 11:18:45 PM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm bored so I'm going to put forth a few things that need clearing up.


No, what you've done is re-post a bunch of shit that's either flat wrong or ridiculous.

But post away.  It's a free country.

Ooops!  I mean, it's a fascist dictatorship where you have NO RIGHTS because they were all STOLEN by GEORGE BUSH!!!!


(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/16/2007 6:04:11 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm bored so I'm going to put forth a few things that need clearing up.


No, what you've done is re-post a bunch of shit that's either flat wrong or ridiculous.

But post away. It's a free country.

Ooops! I mean, it's a fascist dictatorship where you have NO RIGHTS because they were all STOLEN by GEORGE BUSH!!!!




Hey, where in the Constitution is the authority to make copies of all our email and website visits delegate to the Feds?

Why am I asking someone for whom the phrase "ANY PERSON" NEEDS TO BE INTERPRETED?!


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/16/2007 6:38:31 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm bored so I'm going to put forth a few things that need clearing up.


No, what you've done is re-post a bunch of shit that's either flat wrong or ridiculous.

But post away.  It's a free country.

Ooops!  I mean, it's a fascist dictatorship where you have NO RIGHTS because they were all STOLEN by GEORGE BUSH!!!!

That is exactly the sort of substantive response I've come to expect from supporters of the POTUS. Although it usually includes an attempt to equate failure to support GWB with treason so I'll give you a small amount of props for not trying that.

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/16/2007 7:27:16 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:


I'm bored so I'm going to put forth a few things that need clearing up.
quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm bored so I'm going to put forth a few things that need clearing up.


No, what you've done is re-post a bunch of shit that's either flat wrong or ridiculous.

But post away.  It's a free country.

Ooops!  I mean, it's a fascist dictatorship where you have NO RIGHTS because they were all STOLEN by GEORGE BUSH!!!!




So are you actually saying that with a straight face?   Like do you even know the preamble of the constitution or are you really that naive or that lost in denial or whatever other loss of mental function properly describes what you just said.

Of course since you have a keyboard by all means enlighten our ignorance


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to pollux)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/16/2007 11:18:14 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm bored so I'm going to put forth a few things that need clearing up.


No, what you've done is re-post a bunch of shit that's either flat wrong or ridiculous.

But post away. It's a free country.

Ooops! I mean, it's a fascist dictatorship where you have NO RIGHTS because they were all STOLEN by GEORGE BUSH!!!!




Hey, where in the Constitution is the authority to make copies of all our email and website visits delegate to the Feds?

Why am I asking someone for whom the phrase "ANY PERSON" NEEDS TO BE INTERPRETED?!



Fargle, there you go with that "Any Person" stuff again.
Do you think the founding fathers intended the Constitution to apply to British subjects?
How about a billion Chinese?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/16/2007 11:39:07 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm bored so I'm going to put forth a few things that need clearing up.


No, what you've done is re-post a bunch of shit that's either flat wrong or ridiculous.

But post away. It's a free country.

Ooops! I mean, it's a fascist dictatorship where you have NO RIGHTS because they were all STOLEN by GEORGE BUSH!!!!




Hey, where in the Constitution is the authority to make copies of all our email and website visits delegate to the Feds?

Why am I asking someone for whom the phrase "ANY PERSON" NEEDS TO BE INTERPRETED?!



Fargle, there you go with that "Any Person" stuff again.
Do you think the founding fathers intended the Constitution to apply to British subjects?
How about a billion Chinese?


The US Constitution applies to the US GOVERNMENT. So wherever that Government is, the limits and protections specified apply. ( more to the point, the delegated authorities never change, so the Government doesn't "Magically" get more power. )



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/17/2007 12:21:41 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
?
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I wouldn't say that classifying someone as a "Professional" changes it one bit. Just adds in a sterotype.

My point was, escentially, that people can believe in something, and support it, without wanting to have to take the brunt of it. That one doesn't have to not support something in sentiment to not be actively fully involved. Sort of like how many religious people aren't Priests. Most aren't, actually. That whole vow-of-celeabacy gets them.

Anyhow, my point is against this argument- that people who support the war but don't enlist are pussies.


So, they're all in favor of sending other people to die, but not take that risk themselves.

COWARDS.

I suppose the difference is that Firefighters aren't explicitly hired to kill, and be killed, however the troops are. When you deploy troops, you are sending them to DIE and KILL.

To believe otherwise is to live in denial of the realities.

And in that context your analogy breaks down.


How so? Did you think firefighting was a cushy, safe job?
Yes it is a pretty cushy and safe job.  Trash collectors have a much more dangerous job and make less than half what a fireman makes and don't have all the perks.

And, hell. There are some breaks in the analogy. Firefighters get to stay home. They get to do something universally respected (expect, perhaps, by true pyro-ethuasts). They get to drive around a cool truck and still get that sexy uniform. And cities are -still- short on firefighters.

Don't take the analogy too far. I'm not saying firefighting and soldiering are the same- you're looking at it too plainly. Analogies bring up points of comparison, but break beyond that point. This does not necessarily mean the point of comparison is invalid, it just means the analogy is outside of its limits. So consider this point, and not trying to make the two professions entirely equilevalent.

People can believe in things. Want things done. And still not put their lives on hold to do them. Most have other interests. And, while you might insult one for not going to war, despite supporting it- can you not say the same of one not wanting to go to fight fires, despite supporting such a thing? Or being an EMT, despite supporting an emergency health system of some form? Or being an adoption agent, despise supporting orphans finding loving homes? What about those who enjoy technology, supporting the notion of further research, yet fail to put on a lab coat? Are all these people- the utterly vast majority of the population- cowards?

To this end, I propose that such an oversimplication was a vulgar attempt at an insult. I can only summise it was out of politically-influenced malice towards the target population.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/17/2007 12:26:52 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

How so? Did you think firefighting was a cushy, safe job?
Yes it is a pretty cushy and safe job. Trash collectors have a much more dangerous job and make less than half what a fireman makes and don't have all the perks.


Before I mention those firefighters in the west that had a lot of fun battling the blazing forest fires that were driven on by the wind in recent years, I would like to note that I have found most of your responses to me to be about firemen- not in a particularly amiable light, either. Do you have some distaste for such?

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: THIS is what a Pussy looks like! - 7/17/2007 12:46:50 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

How so? Did you think firefighting was a cushy, safe job?
Yes it is a pretty cushy and safe job. Trash collectors have a much more dangerous job and make less than half what a fireman makes and don't have all the perks.


Before I mention those firefighters in the west that had a lot of fun battling the blazing forest fires that were driven on by the wind in recent years, I would like to note that I have found most of your responses to me to be about firemen- not in a particularly amiable light, either. Do you have some distaste for such?


CuriousLord:
I have no distaste for firemen. I have made no statements concerning firemen that were either untrue or denigrating.   I simply pointed out that they have a cushy job that pays well.  It is not particularly dangerous and being a fireman is loaded with perks.  Volunteer firemen are just that "volunteer" and do not get paid and do not have the "perks" and in most cases are not nearly as well trained as professional firemen.
Your argument about those who want a war in Iraq but haven't the intestinal fortitude to go there and fight are similar to firemen and those who are against fires burning our homes down is not a valid argument.  Being a fireman is not an intrinsically dangerous job being a soldier is.  A fireman can quit when ever he chooses a soldier cannot (even when his/her enlistment is over)  A fireman is not required to risk his/her life a soldier is. 
Perhaps you might tell us just where in the top one hundred most dangerous occupations we might find firefighters?
Right now being a soldier in Iraq is the most dangerous occupation for an American.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 7/17/2007 12:50:29 PM >

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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