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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 3:50:06 PM

CelticPrince

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Ghita,

girl there is no "dumb" on these boards, simply expressions of opinions that hopefully create some thought in the eyes of the reader.

Grins I will make you as "both"

CP

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 3:53:41 PM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince
Recently the profiles appear to be changeing to a submissive claiming a need to serve as opposed to offering a gift of their submission

CelticPrince,
Reading the comments people have posted about whether or not submission is a "gift" reminded me of a thread several weeks back where I had posted my thoughts on this. Below is most of that previous post:

quote:

As with every topic here on the forums, the answers have run the gamut from one end to the other...edited....As usual, I see these as two extremes on the spectrum and I fall somewhere in between.

I have never used the word "gift" precisely because of the negative connotation that seems to receive. I'm not doing Master a favor by submitting to Him. I love, adore, respect, and honor Him and it is the most natural thing in the world to wholly submit to Him. I don't see it as doing Him some favor.

However, I do see it as a beautiful thing. He loves and cherishes His property as well. He accepts my submission AS IF IT WERE a gift, though that term has never been applied. He appreciates it AS IF IT WERE a gift because He knows that it IS freely given...and given ONLY to Him, not anyone who happens by.

I think that's where the value in it lies for us. He knows that I'm not naturally submissive in the sense that I can't control it and find myself submitting even when I choose not to. He knows that, out of all the opportunities I've had to submit to someone in a D/s relationship (and vanilla ones, for that matter), I did not until we came into each others' paths. He knows that I chose Him as much as He chose me. He knows how genuine my submission to Him is and He values it more highly than gold (His own words). To me, being His property is just the most natural, right thing I've ever done. If He chooses to see it as being special and valuable, it's certainly not my place to differ. If, to Him, it's a gift then so be it. What it IS is real and the best thing that has ever happened to either of us.

It was said that seeing one's submission as a gift implies that one's Dom/Master should "thank his lucky stars." Can I help it if He does? It's certainly not that I feel He SHOULD, it's simply that that's how He feels. He lets me know each and every day how precious and cherished I am. That doesn't make me one iota less"submissive" than someone who never hears it.

I still feel this way. Take it for what it's worth. Just my 2 cents............luci

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 4:06:12 PM

CelticPrince

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luci,

thanks for that input, it is truely a fine way to look at the question.

CP

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 4:06:21 PM

ELUSIVE1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

ELUSIVE,

well I will not argue with your point but is there an answer to the question to be found there?

CP
CP;
I guess the whole topic has been beat to death to the point, I went off on a rant and didn't answer...
I would say that the net has watered down TTWD to the point that Submissives sometimes don't see thier place in all of this...The "Master" provides safe passage into and out of subspace, lets you safely try new and exciting things, keeps you safe and secure with in the community, you are "Gifting" him by allowing him to do so??By giving him the power and control??I see this as the ying and the yang...it is a mutual arrangement, not a gift bestowed...is there a new watered down culture that sees things differently, I would say a resounding YES...I have been lucky enough to be a part of a lifestyle group that has many Masters, most with 20+ years experience, and I have to say, I can't see them 'waiting' for the 'gift' of control to be given to them in any situation...

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 4:09:41 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

ELUSIVE,

well I will not argue with your point but is there an answer to the question to be found there?

CP

CP;
I guess the whole topic has been beat to death to the point, I went off on a rant and didn't answer...
I would say that the net has watered down TTWD to the point that Submissives sometimes don't see thier place in all of this...The "Master" provides safe passage into and out of subspace, lets you safely try new and exciting things, keeps you safe and secure with in the community, you are "Gifting" him by allowing him to do so??By giving him the power and control??I see this as the ying and the yang...it is a mutual arrangement, not a gift bestowed...is there a new watered down culture that sees things differently, I would say a resounding YES...I have been lucky enough to be a part of a lifestyle group that has many Masters, most with 20+ years experience, and I have to say, I can't see them 'waiting' for the 'gift' of control to be given to them in any situation...

So you disagree with OP's observation that those who state their submission is a gift are disappearing and being replaced with those who view their submission as a need?

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 4:21:07 PM

ELUSIVE1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

ELUSIVE,

well I will not argue with your point but is there an answer to the question to be found there?

CP

CP;
I guess the whole topic has been beat to death to the point, I went off on a rant and didn't answer...
I would say that the net has watered down TTWD to the point that Submissives sometimes don't see thier place in all of this...The "Master" provides safe passage into and out of subspace, lets you safely try new and exciting things, keeps you safe and secure with in the community, you are "Gifting" him by allowing him to do so??By giving him the power and control??I see this as the ying and the yang...it is a mutual arrangement, not a gift bestowed...is there a new watered down culture that sees things differently, I would say a resounding YES...I have been lucky enough to be a part of a lifestyle group that has many Masters, most with 20+ years experience, and I have to say, I can't see them 'waiting' for the 'gift' of control to be given to them in any situation...

So you disagree with OP's observation that those who state their submission is a gift are disappearing and being replaced with those who view their submission as a need?

I would say there needs to be (2) sides (ying and yang, dom and sub)to complete the circle...so yes one needs the other

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http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 4:25:13 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1
I would say there needs to be (2) sides (ying and yang, dom and sub)to complete the circle...so yes one needs the other

And that, if nothing else, I would agree with you on. In our circle, he just happens to feel that my place in his life is a blessing to him.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 4:28:57 PM

CelticPrince

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ELUSIVE

Hooray, now that is an answer I can understand! grins as I also understood the rant!

Many folks observe as you did that a subject has been beat to death and most have for that point in time. But CM has an ever changing population and what might have been put to bed 3 months ago is fresh now for many.

CP

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 4:29:28 PM

Honsoku

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I think the problem most people have with the term "gift" are the connotations that go along with it (I don't personally have a problem with the term). The term implies unearned and possibly frivolous. I just don't know of a better word in the language for "something to be given". 'Reward' comes close, but the power implications are in the wrong direction. Perhaps 'bestow' or 'entrust' might work. I.e. "I entrust him/her with my submission". As for a gift not being able to be retracted; you can't take back submission, but you can stop giving it.

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 4:45:41 PM

chellekitty

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this reminds me of a post i made on lj a few days ago accounting some of the lessons i've learned...one of them fits how i feel about submission perfectly...

Things that you have to work for are that much better and things received because of love are worth that much more.

my submission is both...the dominance i submit to is both...i don't do instant oatmeal relationships...and if i am going to submit, not just bottom...i need love and i need to love...

just me
chelle

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 5:50:26 PM

shyinini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

yes shy,

it is all those things and more and I have probably been exposed to them since before you were born, but i cannot determine that for certain since you do not show a profile. cuckles, I use dark tint glasses that see through comments.

thanks for your input.

CP

No Sir, we were both born in the same decade.
Check again.

Sir's girl

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 5:52:56 PM

shyinini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

Question....

I personally feel a "need" to submit...it is who I am inside..it is me. I see my submission as a gift, but one I only give to one person. Does it matter how I state it on my profile? Please dont see me as being dumb here...I admit I may be sometimes, but Im honestly curious this time, is there a difference in the semantics that much?

ghita~

You say it ghita...AS IT COME FROM YOUR OWN HEART !!
Forget any and everyone else.

Sir's girl

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is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 5:58:42 PM

CelticPrince

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shy, And a fine decade it was!

CP

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 5:59:07 PM

peppermint

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Whether a profile states a need to serve or offers the gift of submission, they are only words that attempt to explain something about the author. Words as such are completely subjective.

For example, what i consider hot, you might consider merely very warm. I say the word hot, trying to convey to you that which i sense is hot. Only by us sharing that which i call hot many times can you begin to understand my meaning.

Words in themselves are inadequate. Only with interaction can an attempt be made to fully understand. The internet is a place were we disect words. Relationships are were we discover meaning.

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 6:01:46 PM

CelticPrince

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pepper, it is a good thing to see the wisdom of peppermint on boards again.

CP

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 6:07:49 PM

peppermint

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(blushes)

Good again to read a post that makes me think.

Hope you are well and happy, Sir.

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 6:34:57 PM

TemptingNviceSub

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Sometimes, I think I am a bit of a weirdo when it comes to submission..I see it neither as a gift or a need on my part..As I explain it..to a few choice friends..I have no need to serve..personally ,I do not get excited about folding his socks a certain way..I do not get all submissive shivery when running about hells creation to obtain some item or another that he may wish to have...I do get satisfaction that, because I care, respect, love or whatever, that in some way, I am showing him by my actions that he is important to me and not simply by my verbalizing it.......that I care......but, the action in and of itself.....phooey!..so hence no gift..no NEED!..but a choice..to share in an equal power exchange, in an unequal way....and LOVE it!!......Tempting

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 6:39:39 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

When I sign on to CM like everyone else, the home page pops up and with it the "on" list of who we seek. I make it a point to read the full profile of that first one, in my case submissives.
Recently the profiles appear to be changeing to a submissive claiming a need to serve as opposed to offering a gift of their submission.

Question, is their a general cultural change going on of just my signing on at a time for "need" subs to be on??

CelticPrince

I never thought of submission as a gift but for a very long time I did think of it as a need. In the last 8 months or so, I've actually changed my opinion on that as well (and should probably update my profile to reflect such). I have a desire to be true to myself rather than wear a mask. Being true to myself is a choice and I don't 'need' to do that but it is what maximizes my potential for happiness. I believe that I am living the life I was meant to live because I'm pretty damn happy about it most of the time. The things I 'need' are few and far between and what it boils down to is a question of whether or not I'm willing to suffer consequences for various choices which come up in my life.

As for whether or not the culture itself is changing, I'm not so sure. I think that the word gift had been bandied about so much and shot down by some for so long it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of people and I believe that's being recognized by more and more souls as they read forums such as this one and talk to others into a D/s way of life. For some people it's just easier to shun the word than embrace it so you can max your output for a dominant or submissive. Personally, if one believes their submission is a gift, I think they should embrace it whole-heartedly and not let anyone else tell them that it's wrong for them to do so. People who will laugh it it or ridicule you for the use of it probably aren't going to be compatible with you anyway.. so screw em.

Celeste

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 8:06:55 PM

Missokyst

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RE: submission agift or a need? - 7/21/2007 8:09:50 PM

domiguy

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It is a need, that for the majority of subs is not given to just anyone.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/21/2007 8:11:55 PM >

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