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Old Guard? - 7/22/2007 9:25:27 PM   
octavia


Posts: 377
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		I'm sure this question has been asked a million times, but what exactly is old guard, or how is it defined?  I have heard the term, and been told by Dom men that they are "old guard".  The one thing about it I have heard, (no idea if true or not) is that people used to start as submissives and then after a time.. graduate into the Dominant role.  I have no idea here, am just searching for information and am very curious how this melds with the idea that we are what we are, and these preferences are inherent in us rather than learned behaviors. 
thank you for your time,
oct
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Old Guard? - 7/22/2007 9:45:58 PM   
NControlofU


Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Within a BDSM context, Old Guard is a term that is applied to the leather gay community of the post WWII era.  A pretty good historical look at old guard is available online at http://www.lexlyons.org/OldGuardHistory.htm,  THE OLD GUARD (The History of Leather Traditions) by Guy Baldwin M.S. 

Old Guard has nothing to do with starting as a sub and becoming a dom.  Some people just like to throw around terms that they have created their own definitions for.

< Message edited by NControlofU -- 7/22/2007 9:54:47 PM >

(in reply to octavia)
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RE: Old Guard? - 7/22/2007 9:50:15 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		The term "Old Guard" or "Old Guard Leather" comes from the culture that developed after World War II in the Gay Leather motorcycle clubs.  You might find some of the following articles useful:

This classic article by Guy Baldwin - http://www.hawkeegn.com/bdsm/oldgd.html
And the Joseph W. Bean masterpiece - http://www.iron-rose.com/ir/docs/old_guard.htm
http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/dictionary/Old_Guard_leather/
http://www.leatherleadership.org/library/LLC6Baldwin.htm
http://www.black-rose.com/cuiru/archive/4-2/oldguard.html
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=old%20guard

YIK,
- Geoff

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/22/2007 10:04:40 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		i suppose if you're hookin up with 80 year old gay men....otherwise its usually a way to make them look more twue

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/22/2007 10:10:45 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Old guard is anyone older than you, who wants you to accept whatever they say at face value because it has the official Old Guard seal of approval.

no, really "Old Guard" is the group of gay men in the 50s and 60s who were involved in setting up the scene in NYC and SF that eventually spread to give us a lot of the stereotypes and customs we have today of BDSM groups and participants (though i'm sure someone will be along to correct me :P).

Unless you're talking to a 70 year old gay man, he's probably just trying to sound impressive.

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/22/2007 10:49:00 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		~FR~

My great-grandmother was a candy-maker and she invented this amazingly delicious candy that I've never seen in any stores. It doesn't even have a real name. The title of the recipe is White Candy. I used to make it myself even though she died before I was born because she passed the recipe down to my grandmother who, in her time, passed it down to me. I've since passed it along to my own daughter and her boys delight in it's delicate, sweet taste. The inventor of the candy died over 50 years ago, but the candy lives on in her descendants and the love they have for both making it and eating it. The world is filled with similar stories. Ideas and ideals can be passed down just as easily as a recipe. All it takes is a willing teacher and a willing student.

Celeste

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/22/2007 10:54:24 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_1052801/mpage_1/key_old%252Cguard/tm.htm#1052921
What exactly IS old guard?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_558761/mpage_1/key_old%252Cguard/tm.htm#559207
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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 7:11:02 AM   
octavia


Posts: 377
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		thank you very much all.

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 7:45:20 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		octavia,

Reading down the short list of replies, there are the normal number of factual comments and the snide ones as well.

What is missing so far is the evolution of the pricipal that were practiced by the "Old Guard" / trust, respect, honor and a few other considerations such as protocols.

The priciples behind the term old guard live on in many "D"'s and the initial "group of old gay men' has died long ago, and what has evolved is the core values that I mentioned above.

CP

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 8:16:22 AM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		The "Old Gay Men" thankfully, did talk to people and play with young gay men who continue to talk to people. It's not Atlantis, either, folks.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 8:42:24 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I was speaking to someone who has a whole lot more experience than I do the other day. He made an interesting statement: Old Guard isn't nessesarily a title that denotes a certain set of rules but a name given to an era in time, like the California Gold Rush speaks of that era. The Old Guard, overall, dealt with a military protocol in Ms relationships overall as hunting for gold was the over all goal for the Gold Rush. For each, there were a lot of different methods and tools used to reach the end goal.

Master Fire


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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 8:57:01 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Could it be that some use the term old guard when they mean old school?

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 10:14:58 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		all i know is it never maters anyway we are always trying to redefine things.. i know there only two groups that are the oldest bdsm groups around TES being one them other was started by a woman who is no longer with us pass on a few years ago that group was out in cali can not remeber the name. everyone is going to tell you something or some kinda of phoney blony i just go what ever lol...

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 10:35:07 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		no...its not atlantis...but the 89 cent loaf of bread is not your grandma's home made bread either...it evolves, and sure there are people that still use the same recipe as 50 or 60 years ago...and yes my comment was snide but my point was that sure theres some original home made bread makers out there, but most people are buying it off the shelf...does that make it worse...no, just different...and people like to take store bought items out of the package to "make them their own"...i said usually...which means most of the time, not all the time...sure theres some out there still practicing the principles that their forefathers taugh them, right or wrong...but if they were to look at the average online Dom claiming to be Old Gaurd they would piss themselves laughing or something like that...

chelle, who could not converse without metaphors

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 10:55:17 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think dominants use the term having no clue what it really means and how it was started.  It makes me laugh, it certainly doesn't impress me.

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 10:57:39 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: octavia

I'm sure this question has been asked a million times, but what exactly is old guard, or how is it defined?  I have heard the term, and been told by Dom men that they are "old guard".  The one thing about it I have heard, (no idea if true or not) is that people used to start as submissives and then after a time.. graduate into the Dominant role.  I have no idea here, am just searching for information and am very curious how this melds with the idea that we are what we are, and these preferences are inherent in us rather than learned behaviors. 
thank you for your time,
oct

I snicker every time I hear someone claim they're OG trained, especially when they're a het male 50 or younger.  LOL good stuff.

_____________________________

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Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 12:03:19 PM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		ok, so let me ask then. What is an M10?  Had a master say this to a friend of mine in claiming his experience. I believe he has also used Old Guard, but perhaps it was Old School. He strikes me as the type to brag without having the chops to back it up.....


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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 12:11:20 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

no...its not atlantis...but the 89 cent loaf of bread is not your grandma's home made bread either...it evolves, and sure there are people that still use the same recipe as 50 or 60 years ago...and yes my comment was snide but my point was that sure theres some original home made bread makers out there, but most people are buying it off the shelf...does that make it worse...no, just different...and people like to take store bought items out of the package to "make them their own"...i said usually...which means most of the time, not all the time...sure theres some out there still practicing the principles that their forefathers taugh them, right or wrong...but if they were to look at the average online Dom claiming to be Old Gaurd they would piss themselves laughing or something like that...

chelle, who could not converse without metaphors



I'm in total agreement with your points. The people I know who have any valid connection to said view it with unromanticized notions of good AND bad points in regard to that time and place, not some halcyon schlock about "how it used to be."


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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 12:37:06 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		It is the bdsm equivelent of jacked up pickup trucks and or go fast parts on a tiny econo cars.

(in reply to Grlwithboy)
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RE: Old Guard? - 7/23/2007 2:44:36 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Generally speaking, if claimed by a heterosexual man who is under 50, it most likely means "full of shit".

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