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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 4:44:34 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angelsmile

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Well since most male Doms are not demanding cash from their subs there is a obviously a smaller chance ....



Hello domiguy,

 sorry to say ...em... You err, there are also male professional  dominants and yes, they DO ask money for their services. The only difference is that they have tendency not to ask for as much money for their services as their female colleagues do.

Angelsmile


And since I said "MOST" I thought the statement spoke for itself.

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 5:03:27 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		Many of the Pro Dominants have been great leaders in the community and educators.  They don't hate men.  I think sometimes because many submissive men (okay maybe many isn't the right word) like humiliation play that some people think those who can administer that type of play hate the gender of whoever they are playing with.  But that's straight B.S. 

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 5:13:27 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

subfever: I appreciate you citing your experience as a submissive man, and thus,"balancing out" the view that seems to prevail among some folks, that all Dommes, everywhere (lthough personally I am referring to "non-Pros"), charge something for their "services", (and-or what I view as a consequnt insinuation that none of them, anywhere, seem to want (or are maybe capable of having) a relationship with a man. Thank you.

- Susan


Do I get a kiss? ...

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 5:15:25 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

I love men.  I think every woman should own one, or two, or three, or .........



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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 5:18:08 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I certainly dont charge. Actually having 2 students as pets, I tend to be the one paying for most things. I am definately the Domme, but I am not going to sit home and do nothing becasue they boys dont have the disposable income to pay for me to do what I want to do.
As for hating men... not ALL of them, but there are a few.  Then agian there are a few women too.
DV


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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 5:26:36 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Man how long will it take for folks to seperate the Pro Domme's from the amatures for money that make up the bulk of the profiles people complain about.

Calling the amatures for money one so often encounters, Pro Dommes, is like calling A day laborer at Home Depot a General Contractor.

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 5:31:06 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
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Status: offline 		THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 5:40:40 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Why would I hate a man?   I love men.  I would like to see a place come together via chat room or message board for both Dominant men and women to exchange ideas.

Regards, MissSCD

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 6:13:55 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
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Status: offline 		I think most people here completely took my OP out of context. The point I was trying to make was how the vanilla world looks at dominant women. And then I asked if the stereotypes are in any way true. Stereotypes dont just come out of nowhere, so obviously there is a basis for them. And I was asking what the basis of that stereotype is.

I'm not bashing all dommes. I've personally known serveral dominant women for years who do not hate men and are true practitioners of the lifestyle.
 I am only bashing a certain type which I believe are exploiting/abusing the lifestyle. The so-called "money dommes" and those that really have no true interest or beliefs when it comes to BDSM are the ones I do not like. The ones that put the value of money above the entire lifestyle. Those types of dommes are not any different than the nice lady that cuts my hair every month. Its nothing but a financial/business relationship.

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 8/1/2007 6:16:35 PM >

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 6:15:06 PM   
PairOfDimes


Posts: 324
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline 		Feminist and hating men aren't the same thing. Misoandrist might be the word they're looking for.

At any rate, I think sexually dominant women who do BDSM might be held in disfavor (or, worse, regarded as unnatural) for the same reason as sexually dominant non-kinky women are (i.e. sexually assertive women) and for the same reason as nonsexual dominance in women is often, even now, cause for disfavor or discomfort.

As for professionals, doesn't everyone want a job that is both satisfying and lucrative? Generally, although many privilege satisfaction over greater income, a job has to make *some* money, otherwise it stops being a job and starts being a hobby. As such, isn't everyone in his or her chosen profession to make a buck?

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 7:14:21 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
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Status: offline 		omg we live in a water color world geeze

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 9:11:53 PM   
MisPandora


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jj292

There is a big difference though between pro-dommes and lifestyle dommes.
The relationship between a pro-domme and her sub is a very cold one. There is no real emotional attachment. There is no real bond between them. The only glue in that relationship is the money and sexual attraction. Most pro-dommes also don't get very many submissives that are serious. Many subs that seek pro-dommes are married or new to BDSM and don't want a real relationship.


I'll call bullshit to this one as well.  Please don't make assumptions if you don't have all of the information and are trying to judge based solely on what you see online.

Many moons ago, I worked as a paramedic, and was asked by a gentleman who I transported to the hospital to  call someone for him.  He was gravely ill.  I knew of his kink side from being around locally, and I knew that he had a pro relationship with this woman.  She came into the hospital and was with him in the ICU when he died. 

SHE was all he had.

Please don't try to tell me that there aren't pros out there that don't develop bonds between their clients.  THAT is the way they keep business.  That is why they cannot be completely ice cold, completely man-hating.  They must retain that intuition and that sensitivity to the needs of the individual who is seeking them out.  Those are the women that succeed in the business.

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"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 9:14:57 PM   
MisPandora


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From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

well Dommes do  not hate men just other Dom's. here is why a lot of Dom's feel that a  Domme should be under them.
this is mostly a power struggle thing... i have heard this from a lot of Dommes when they goto events or even at munches. that is from what i hear in the grape vine

OK, WTF are you talking about?????

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Pandora
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"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 9:30:06 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
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Status: offline 		there are a lot of dommes that get hit on by doms they make them feel less then they are. that is my point and they are not so it is easy to see why they could be that way sometimes

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 9:39:36 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP: Okay, I just read your latest e-mail. I thought that might be the case. Sorry for any misunderstanding on my part.

subfever: Yes, you get a kiss! (Kiss,kiss,kiss). Oh. That was three (hehe)  
Yes, I am teasing (blows more kisses to subfever...). And I know (more kisses to subfever) that most people (here's a cyber hug for subfever, too) know that most Dommes don't hate men (at least in my experience they don't). And I know the OP knows it, probably, too.

I still have something to say on that previous topic, though (not necessarily to the OP) - but there seems sometimes to be some misunderstandings among some folk about  these interactions Dommes have. As far as I can tell, they have with men are just the same kinds of interaction (emotionally anyway, IMO) that I imagine many male Doms have with their females submissives. And from what I've seen, there are many male Doms that just love and are nuts about their females submssives.

So why would it be so hard for people to grasp that a female Domme might feel the same way about a male submissive? Maybe I've got an advantage being a Switch - I really don't have a hard time understanding that (not that everyone does - but I've seen some real misconceptions about "what kind of people some Dommes must be" (to "be able to do that" kind of thing). This kind of commentary, from some male Dom that is busy beating some female sobmissive's butt, but wants to know ("how some one else can do that kiud of thing?")

And I keep hearing weird misconceptions occasioanlly, that "male subs must be gay" (as in all of them). Really? Them why are the hetero ones intereseted in BDSM activity with females?  I doubt if they're "asexual" either (or they wouldn't be interested in BDSM, period, probably). Anyway - We're talking about people here - not just "roles", necessarily. Thanks for letting me get all that off my chest (it wasn't directed at the OP, they were just general comments).

On another note - I think maybe the OP is wondering if Dommes have a tender side (especially, maybe "Pros". Maybe they don't get "invested" emotionally in clients as they would with a partner, but they have to be able toshnow some emotion, don't they?). I realize that men can be vulnerable, and females can be vulnerable too. Well, Dommes are, too (even "Pros", IMO -sorry if I am shattering  any image that they're not). Maybe they don't look like it (but I believe many are). They want to be cherished, and feel special - and make their submissives feel special, I imagine.
I do. So, yeah.

I think a lot of them are empathic people (they appear to be, to me. I liked that post about having to be that way, to be able to deal with a sub's feelings - although I do realize everyone is different).

As far as the "other kind" (referencing Archer's well thought out distinction between ProDommes and "fakes") - well, I can tell you there are male Doms like that, too (they just do different weird kinds of things to women) - so men don't have the only complaint here. Fortunateley, in my personal experience, they've been few.

And actually, somebody is paying these people, or they wouldn't stay in "business". So there must be a market for their services (although I realize they can end up "duping" people - this is truly a case of "let the buyer beware", IMO).

This might appear to be circular reasoning (if people stopped patronizing them, the market would dry up, and they'd disappear). Maybe you think they should be arrested (maybe some have been taken to court. How do you know they haven't?). But that probably won't happen to them all, is my guess. And they don't really bother  me, personally (I am not a man,though) so I can't really comment further. 

Best I can do is offer my condolences: There are all kinds of crazy people out there - you just have to ignore them, I guess.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/1/2007 10:31:36 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 9:43:37 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora


Many moons ago, I worked as a paramedic, and was asked by a gentleman who I transported to the hospital to  call someone for him.  He was gravely ill.  I knew of his kink side from being around locally, and I knew that he had a pro relationship with this woman.  She came into the hospital and was with him in the ICU when he died. 

SHE was all he had.



Were the cops called when they caught her trying to pull out his fillings?

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 11:05:01 PM   
MadameMarque


Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

They were talking briefly on the radio today about dominatrices and basically said that they are all just radical feminists who hate men and are just looking for an easy way to make a buck.

It seems dommes are viewed in a very negative way by the vanilla world...even more negative than male doms.

What do you think is the basis of these stereotypes and is there any truth to them?


(It's not clear to me, but I'll respond assuming you're talking about women who identify as dominant, rather than professional dominants, who may or may not be dominant, in their personal lives:)
 
Yes, these “theories” about dominant women (they are not facts, since they’re incorrect, and they can’t be opinions, because opinion is irrelevant, in matters of fact), are based upon limitations that society likes to support and perpetuate, to what women can be.
 
First and foremost, is the problem society has with the idea that a woman would want something just for herself – more particularly, that she would want something sexual, just for herself.  Not for catering to someone else’s fantasies, not because she’s paid to do it, but – the same way a man wants what he wants: because he wants it, because he feels like it – you know?  Because sex and desire and aggression and the impulses to dominance and submission are human.
 
Along with that, it is an uncomfortable thought, for people in a male-dominated culture, that a woman also takes satisfaction and excitement in being aggressive, in dominating, in being served and prioritized, in having sex on her terms and with whom she chooses, rather than being society’s perpetual handmaiden, at home, in her family, with her lovers, at work, in the world, at large.
 
 – that she’d want just for her own pleasure, that she’d let another person sacrifice, for her, voluntarily, that she would aggress, to take and have what and whom she wants, and enjoy doing it.
 
The proof that people find these ideas about women threatening, is in the sorts of statements you’ve quoted.  It’s in the question you post, here.
 
If it were just a question of not understanding voluntary D/s and SM, the question would have been, “Do dominants hate the people they dominate?”
 
Oh, and by the way?  Feminism is your friend.  That is because, by far the majority of what men think is wrong with women, is caused by the long term, systematic persecution and downing of them.
 
And, oh, I do love men.
 
 
 
“Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.”  -
 
coined by Cheris Kramarae and Paula Treichler

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/1/2007 11:11:05 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Wow. Good answer! (really).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/1/2007 11:16:36 PM >

_____________________________

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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/2/2007 6:41:47 AM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I put several years of blood sweat and tears trying to make sure that men with no other outlet had access to safe, proffessional, and yes, CARING SM experiences. Call me naive, but if a shrink an MD a dentist and anyone else who takes money for personal services can be said to be caring, so could I. Men entrusted me with their fantasies - I protected their identity, dignity, and the INTEGRITY of the fantasy - even if it was "I need you to spit in my face and make me your pig" that has integrity in my personal world. If someone has a deeply held fetish or fantasy about being used and having his money taken it's not the be-all-end-all of SM but how is that more fucked up or less legitimate than a rape fantasy?


I also have a BA and I'm achieving success in my field of design. I can walk anyone through any contemporary art museum better than any trained tourguide or docent, but I liked working as a Domme enough to not really mind when ignorant idiots wanted to conflate my job with being a streetwalker (not that there's something bad about that, but it's not my gig) and enough to spend money on tools, professional development in the form of going 1500 miles to events to learn skills I couldn't get locally from people I could not get to locally.


So yeah, I really really hate men.

And this is in regard to the rather small proportion of the decade I've been doing SM in which I did it professionally. Why'd I get out? Because one is not a good businesswoman when she cares quite as much as I did.


< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 8/2/2007 6:50:39 AM >

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RE: So do Dommes hate men? - 8/2/2007 7:36:36 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Wow. Another really good post! - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/2/2007 7:40:16 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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