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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 10:59:12 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

And it's any more realistic in M/s relationships? 

At least in theory, yes. Without getting into a deabte about the descriptive differences and nuances between "subs" and "slaves", the latter group normally is presumed to be towards the greater pole of the 'liberties surrendered' continuum. At least in those relationships, it (to me) becomes more probable to encounter dynamics and regulations that place honoring a vow of servitude beyond all else, making an escape hatch a non-issue (in terms of whether it is available, not whether the desire for one could spawn).

So...I would say it's more "realistic" because I would think people devoted to the greater extreme are more likely than others to be seeking situations where they are not permitted to exit. I think I can still sense your point about how it may not change the possibility of the human propensity to want to backtrack, but in this situation it would strike more akin to spending money with credit cards beyond what you can actually pay. Sure, at such a point one would wish to leave the monetary contractual agreements but they are still inevitably bound to them no matter what.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 12/5/2008 11:01:58 PM >

_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:00:07 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Oh, John darling, you know you make me swoooooooooon... too bad about requirement number 4, though.  *sigh*



Cali
(wonders why no one appreciates a girl who can use the term "double-clutch" in a sentence... correctly)


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AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:01:45 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

At least in theory, yes.


Ok, let's see how the theory holds up in practice.  She wants to leave and requests to be released.  He says no.  She's determined to leave.
 
Now what?  Does OJ get a cellmate?
 
John

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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:04:09 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Oh, John darling, you know you make me swoooooooooon... too bad about requirement number 4, though.  *sigh*


Cripes, who would think that anyone would have read that far???
 
John

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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:08:07 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

At least in theory, yes.


Ok, let's see how the theory holds up in practice.  She wants to leave and requests to be released.  He says no.  She's determined to leave.
 
Now what?  Does OJ get a cellmate?
 
John

Trying to argue the legality issue into an emotional bond can be a tricky thing. Laws do not encompass every ethical dilemma properly, as most of us (by mere virtue of our involvement in such relationships) know.

This could really get into a nitty gritty discussion all its own as to whether ethical constructs could/should support the consequences of the decision to make such a vow.

I'll yield to (for the moment, and the sake of this thread) the point that in certain relationships and dynamics, there is a greater expectation of likelihood for a stipulation that decrees that the slave "should not be" permitted to exit of her/his own volition. That was the point of my addressing his use of the term "sub" rather than "slave".

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 12/5/2008 11:09:10 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:08:46 PM   
Daddysredhead


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From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		~FR~

I haven't read any of the other posts here.  This is what I wrote a long time ago re: this "gift..."

"my submission to Master began as my gift to Him, and developed into freedom that i gave myself by becoming His slave..." 
 
I never gave people much respect, much less submission, until this relationship.  Now, it's natural... and it all works for us.  He is as respectful of me as I am Him.

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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:08:55 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Only us twue subs who offer our gift of submission in a white lacquered box tied with a red ribbon that we've starched into crisp tendrils.


Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:10:44 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Only us twue subs who offer our gift of submission in a white lacquered box tied with a red ribbon that we've starched into crisp tendrils.


Cali


Tssk, tssk.

Twue subs would not have the box pre-painted anything until the Twue Dom picked the designer color of his/her choice.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:10:46 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		Do we use tissue paper or bubble wrap to make sure our submission doesn't break inside the box, Cali?  Remember, "contents may shift during transit."

~ Red (lacquered box)

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:12:02 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Submission is something that occurs in the presence of a dominant personality. If thought about, it is not a conscious thing, it just occurs when those with a submissive personality are mixed with the proper dominant personality. If it is something that is consciously given, then it is being subordinate and not submissive. So how does one give something that is naturally drawn from them?


quote:

ORIGINAL: DawnFire

I have just got to know, what is everyone's problem with the phrase, "Submission is a gift".

I see it several ways...


1.  It could be used as a really bad excuse to getting out of something a submissive didn't want to do, IE "My submission is a gift, I could take it away."  But then it wouldn't be a gift exactly, it'd be more like a loan, so "gift"  still doesn't bother me.


2.  It could be that one might see submission as a personality trait, and therefore have a problem with seeing it as a gift.  If that's the case, we would have to define what submission means in each case.  IE the gift of submission might be the "giving" of oneself over to their dominants control.

-In which case I still have no problem with the term


3.  Submission as a gift may be seen as making the act of submission (a verb) into a noun... and the grammer of it all might really bother some people at a deeper level. 

Really I'm just grasping at straws here... I'd really like to know.

-Dawn


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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:12:22 PM   
CalifChick


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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Zero, you don't get to dictate the terms of the gift until it is received, then it's too late... otherwise, it wouldn't be a gift.

*pause for the irony to really flow over you*

Red - bubble wrap all the way.


Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

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RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:13:27 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Only us twue subs who offer our gift of submission in a white lacquered box tied with a red ribbon that we've starched into crisp tendrils.


Holy floggers, Batman.  You actually know the Ceremony of the Ancients (those that came before the Old Guard).  I'm impressed.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:14:41 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Only us twue subs who offer our gift of submission in a white lacquered box tied with a red ribbon that we've starched into crisp tendrils.


Cali


Tssk, tssk.

Twue subs would not have the box pre-painted anything until the Twue Dom picked the designer color of his/her choice.



But the white is primer, awaiting the final choice of finish color.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:19:41 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Zero, you don't get to dictate the terms of the gift until it is received, then it's too late... otherwise, it wouldn't be a gift.

What you are talking about, miss, is a "surprise".

What's the point of a "gift" if you aren't giving the receiver what s/he whats, hmmm?

*continues to wag finger*


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:19:54 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Submission is something that occurs in the presence of a dominant personality. If thought about, it is not a conscious thing, it just occurs when those with a submissive personality are mixed with the proper dominant personality. If it is something that is consciously given, then it is being subordinate and not submissive. So how does one give something that is naturally drawn from them?


Well, there's submission and then there's submission.  By that I mean, it's possible to have two personalities draw out characteristics of the other, just as you say.  But that does not necessarily result in a power exchange relationship.  I'm sure there are submissives that "feel" submissive around you, but they're not yours and you have no intention of making them yours.  For that to happen requires a conscious decision on both your parts.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:20:55 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

But the white is primer, awaiting the final choice of finish color.

Ah! Clearly you have gone through this process before. Finally, someone with experience in here!

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:22:57 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Okay, you're right.



Cali
(smiles and nods and smiles and nods.... wondes if anybody is buying this)


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:27:02 PM   
Rover


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Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

But the white is primer, awaiting the final choice of finish color.

Ah! Clearly you have gone through this process before. Finally, someone with experience in here!


As noted previously, it is the secret Ceremony of the Ancients.  And now for the sacrilege of having spoken of it publicly, we must all take our lives on the first new moon. 
 
I believe the scrolls say that the submissive goes first.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:27:19 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
.... wonders if anybody is buying this)


Whoa, whoa, whoa...

You want to charge people for your gifts, now?!? Is this your version of 'small print'??

*pats self on head for unexpected, yet rather nifty use of the subtle double entendre*


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: "Submission is a Gift" - 12/5/2008 11:32:10 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Yeah, well, fiddlefuck.  I said you guys were right, but it's never enough, is it.  Gift after gift after gift... *softly stifles a sob, lip trembling, a single beautiful tear slides down her cheek*


Cali
(wonders if we need a volcano, or if the special koolaid will be good enough)


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 120
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