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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 4:08:42 AM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		I have to say I agree with Popeye.  Bush wanted Hussein out, he's out.  Our own infrastructue is in collapse.  With the oil over there they can afford to rebuild their own country. 

I'm considerably more concerned about the CHILDISH behavior our elected leaders are showing in walking out of voting sessions, and conducting themselves like spoiled 3 year olds.  How can we have hope for anything in American with our elected "leaders" acting like that?  What does that do to resolve anything?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 5:59:07 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


Posts: 233
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		I do hope that people caught that that was not a news article, but an Opinion piece carefully sculpted to appear like news. Note the manipulative language (a neocon staple since this whole farce was dreamed up) twisting the stances of the Democrats quoted. They weren't in any way "appalled" by the possibility of victory. They were appalled that four years into this mistake we are still being lied to, as we have been at every single step of the process, and it's getting tiresome.

While I'd like to take the bait and believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and that the Terrorist University the neocon lies have created for us in Iraq may revert to a place free of al Qaida, experience has taught me better. To the extent that the mainstream media is painting some glimmers of hope for things there, I just recall that this is the same state-controlled media that shoved all the faulty WMD "evidence" down our throats while ignoring or burying all the Hans Blixes and Scott Ritters who advised us otherwise. And the same media that in uncritically parrotting Bush's misleading bull has most Americans believing that the insurgency consists entirely of America-threatening terrorists when in fact careful and unbaised analyses show that it is 90-95% simply a civil war. The same useless horde of stenographers who complied dutifully with Bush in convincing 70% of the country that Saddam Hussein attacked us on 9/11.

It's sad how few people here have learned anything from Vietnam. Not only was it the same kind of unwise and immoral intervention, but we went through the same process of continual public misinformation by the people responsible for it. The only difference seems to be that at least back then we had a few principled and courageous journalists who broke the truth to the country, while today we have only career-building Administration shills.

(in reply to sharainks)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 6:08:00 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling
The only difference seems to be that at least back then we had a few principled and courageous journalists who broke the truth to the country, while today we have only career-building Administration shills.


You could have made this quote without "Administration shills.", at the end (with a bit of rewording, obviously ), because the anti-war media is not much better, and seems to have largely the same objective.
 
Good post though, for your seventeenth here. Thanks for contributing.  

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 6:14:22 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Rich,

What could you possibly be winning? It's just an exercise in nihilism......killing and stealing to fuel materialistic whims and desires.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 6:21:18 AM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

It's sad how few people here have learned anything from Vietnam.


Yes, I agree.

But not for the same reasons you do.


(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 7:38:32 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

I do hope that people caught that that was not a news article, but an Opinion piece carefully sculpted to appear like news. Note the manipulative language (a neocon staple since this whole farce was dreamed up) twisting the stances of the Democrats quoted. They weren't in any way "appalled" by the possibility of victory. They were appalled that four years into this mistake we are still being lied to, as we have been at every single step of the process, and it's getting tiresome.

While I'd like to take the bait and believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and that the Terrorist University the neocon lies have created for us in Iraq may revert to a place free of al Qaida, experience has taught me better. To the extent that the mainstream media is painting some glimmers of hope for things there, I just recall that this is the same state-controlled media that shoved all the faulty WMD "evidence" down our throats while ignoring or burying all the Hans Blixes and Scott Ritters who advised us otherwise. And the same media that in uncritically parrotting Bush's misleading bull has most Americans believing that the insurgency consists entirely of America-threatening terrorists when in fact careful and unbaised analyses show that it is 90-95% simply a civil war. The same useless horde of stenographers who complied dutifully with Bush in convincing 70% of the country that Saddam Hussein attacked us on 9/11.

It's sad how few people here have learned anything from Vietnam. Not only was it the same kind of unwise and immoral intervention, but we went through the same process of continual public misinformation by the people responsible for it. The only difference seems to be that at least back then we had a few principled and courageous journalists who broke the truth to the country, while today we have only career-building Administration shills.


Thanks Suzanne,

That was right on target.The pro-war bush supporters, don`t see this as a battle against terrorism.Most of them know (now anyway)that invading Iraq was a mistake.For them,this is all an exercise in saving face for the neo-cons.And, our fighting boys are dying to save  the pride of these scoundrels? Fuck that!

Don`t wait for them to admit that,though.Their pride won`t let let them.They can`t sell this war on,"we need to fight ,so we neocons don`t look like complete assholes". Instead we get the"we`re fighting the terrorists"line of bull shit.
These same neo-cons are still defending the Vietnam war.Does anyone believe they`ll own up to Iraq?

The fact of how much damage they`ve done,the lives lost and to be lost,and  the bankrupting of our nation,won`t allow them to take responsibility.It`s just to much to bare...............They will never take responsibility for what they got us into.Those lives and dollars are just line items,to be tallied and recorded.The trillion dollars (that we`re borrowing from China),ehh,that`s someone else's money,so it doesn`t matter,lol.Letting bin-laden get away?"Hey,shit happens".lol  You`ll never see a "stand up" guy in this bunch.Swaggering chicken-hawk dick heads,every last one.

Did anyone notice that the OP`s tread was not about how well things are in Iraq,but rather how Dems and other normal people, would be disappointed in hearing about the alleged "progress"?The subject wasn`t progress in Iraq,it was about making a bull shit point,here in America.


This shows a serious lack of compassion and concern for our troops and personal.
It shows sports fan type approach to politics,war and peace.This is way more serious than what team`s on top.This is about deadly serious matters,like the braking of our army,the destruction of thousands of families,and the destruction thousands more to come.This isn`t about silly things like  republican or democrat pride.This shit transcends politics.

I guess we`re going to have to wait another 16 months before we can stop this madness.

To all the republicans and bush supporters..,misery accomplished.


.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/4/2007 7:43:07 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 7:54:08 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		grrrrrr. I hate damn computer cookies.

That statement under my slaves name is mine.

Some may say "but they were fed false information by Bush" and that may be true, but if you look to their statements, they attribute alot more than just that as to their reasons for voting for war, and supporting it. You have to look at all of it and allow now excuses for what they did. We can either push the bar higher for the ones that voted, holding them accountable, and voting them out, so that future politicians will know they better be damn sure about any and all information they are given, by which they base their vote on.

Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to ameenah)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 8:01:45 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		FIRST you put Bush & Co in prison for their Fraudulent actions, leading us into this morass.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 8:09:23 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You take care of what can be taken care of, if you care about justice and not just partisan politics. There is no reason that all of it cannot be done at the same time. I doubt republicans will bring charges against Bush, so if the Dem's that are in there are not bringing the charges, one should ask why. Maybe it is because they realize that they have culpability in it as well? I am not sure, all I know is that on both sides of the aisle, the politicians are doing as they please, and not serving the will of the people. If the people of the US cannot at least unify on that one point, then the US is indeed doomed.

Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 8:18:47 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      At least one Democrat certainly seems to have taken it that way.

     It's too early to say for sure, but for those of who believe the Democrats have chosen to invest themselves and their political futures in a defeat for the USA in Iraq, the link just might bring a smile to your face.


Let me see if I understand what you are saying, we are paying a billion dollars a week in money we borrow from the Chinese in order to keep the schools open in three neighborhoods of one city in Iraq.

And this qualfies in your mind as "winning."

Wow, just... wow.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 8:19:47 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

I do hope that people caught that that was not a news article, but an Opinion piece carefully sculpted to appear like news.



       Yeah!  It's not like the word "Opinion" appears right above the headline of the article or anything... Wait.  Nevermind.  Perhaps the problem is that some people simply can't see shades of grey?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 8:40:54 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


Let me see if I understand what you are saying,



      It's been pretty well established that you don't, Sinergy. Ever.  If there comes a time when you do, please let me know.  If you are going to insist on continued attempts to place my words in my mouth that you feel more comfortable trying to attack, don't expect a response.

      

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 8:54:32 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Again, since the SURGE FAILED TO SECURE BAGHDAD SUFFICIENTLY FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE OVER, why bother killing 2.25 American Kids a day on a failed strategy?

Why trust the promulgators of a failed strategy to plan a successful one?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 9:45:11 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		It's called "mission creep."
When the "reasons" for remaining in Iraq have all been fulfilled and there is no longer any need to stay there they just come up with another "reason" to continue the same behavor.
Just like "Nato" who's sole reason for being was the Soviet Union.
They say, "see, look at Bosnia/Kosovo." We still need "NATO".
Only problem was no "Nato" country was attacked there."
And of course the "K" street Lobbyists who represent all the "Contractors" in Iraq don't want to leave!
That'd kill the gravy train!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 2:08:31 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

           Not a damn thing, Ron, it was supposed to be a simple nose-job, but then came the staph infection...



Which, of course, anybody who had any expertise on Middle Eastern affairs knew would happen if the US went there to do the simple nose-job.

Since you brought up that analogy, I would point out that this is why one goes to a professional for surgery, and hires an attorney (A person who is their own attorney has a fool for a client) rather than assume they can do it by themself.  Most of the DOD thought it was a bad idea, but they were overruled by Bush and Rumsfeld.  Bush and Rumsfeld even had to create a new branch of the Government to massage the information to sell to Congress.

When I pay somebody for their brain, I listen to what they tell me.  Pity the same thing cannot be said about the criminals in the White House.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 2:11:14 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


Let me see if I understand what you are saying,



     It's been pretty well established that you don't, Sinergy. Ever.  If there comes a time when you do, please let me know.  If you are going to insist on continued attempts to place my words in my mouth that you feel more comfortable trying to attack, don't expect a response.

     


I was simply putting a news article you posted, the name of the thread, and the reality on the ground from a wide variety of sources I have already cited, into context, TheHeretic.

I am always fascinated when people post things and then get upset when people respond to them.

Enjoy your war.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/4/2007 2:30:20 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


Enjoy your war.





           Unless you've renounced your citizenship, and are posting from outside the country, it's as much your war as mine, Sinergy, and the consequences of where we go from here will belong to you and yours as much as me and mine.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 1:26:57 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		What consequences? The Iraqi Civil War is of no danger to anyone in the CONUS.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:10:49 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


Enjoy your war.





          Unless you've renounced your citizenship, and are posting from outside the country, it's as much your war as mine, Sinergy, and the consequences of where we go from here will belong to you and yours as much as me and mine.


Classic reasoning.

You vote to put a peurile warmonger into office who immediately starts a war.  It does not go as well as you all hope, despite your endless masturbatory surging and use of weapons that violate the Geneva convention, and you turn around and say it is "my" war.

Sure, if you feel the need to assuage your guilty feelings for the mess you people have put this country in to, just call use progressives and we will take care of the mess.

History suggests you will not bother to thank us when we get your ass out of the hole you dug for the rest of us.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 8:30:30 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

just call use progressives and we will take care of the mess.





        Do tell. 

    edit: Perhaps you should give such a plan a thread of it's own?  I'd love to hear some constructive thoughts from you on the subject.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/5/2007 8:33:35 AM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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