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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:10:18 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		No, fb, it's the "let the military guys over there on the ground that know better than any of us over here what the fuck is going on" strategy.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:21:14 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with level our guys do know what is going over there. the media always is bias on there reporting. it is never about the truth just their political agenda to derail republican stance on anything. It is like when they agave way the troops positions to the enemy. all we did was slap their wrist. if i was parent my son or daughter was over their i would be hot... sense when do numbers become more important then a life. sense when does doing the right thing mean destroying a great thing are country for purpose of self righteous people who chase after greed. this country is a great place paid for in blood and sweat and prosperity of fore fathers. my heart my thoughts and prays go out to our armed forces they make me proud to be an American

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:25:40 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The surge FAILED.




          How do you figure, Fargle, considering we just hit the full strength level of the strategy?  Or have you actually started believing turning on the CAPS LOCK makes your shrieks come TRUE?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:47:05 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

No, fb, it's the "let the military guys over there on the ground that know better than any of us over here what the fuck is going on" strategy.


Bush SOLD his Surge Strategy on us, and it was a 6 month commitment.

It's goal was to provide security to Baghdad, permitting the Iraqi Government troops to take over security.

It failed. They can't even keep the lights on, much less get to work divving up to loot. Not that getting to work divvying up the loot is a damn concern of the Iraqi government. They just don't give a shit WHAT W's policies are.

Game Over. Time to stop killing 2.25 Troops every day we delay our withdrawal.

By not coming home YESTERDAY, TODAY you are responsible for killing 2 or 3 more kids serving in the desert

Are there deaths worth the ZERO PAYOFF we're going to see tomorrow?

Look, what we have here is, apparently, some folks don't want BUSH isn't going to be held responsible for his failure.

I don't understand that line of thinking myself, but there it is...

Hell, Bush has 4 weeks left till the deadline for the surge, maybe the horse will learn to sing. I'd be making plans to withdraw myself...





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:49:41 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The surge FAILED.




How do you figure, Fargle, considering we just hit the full strength level of the strategy? Or have you actually started believing turning on the CAPS LOCK makes your shrieks come TRUE?


The goal was to stabilize Baghdad and permit the Iraqi Government troops to take control, supposedly so that the now-non-existent Iraqi Government could then get together and I dunno... Do what W wanted or something.

Well, we're still patrolling and dying in Baghdad, and it looks like Malaki's government is toast...

That's a failure.

Oh, and it's called COMIC CASE. Imagine the hand lettering was just *slightly* heavier for those words. Anyone who's seen a comic book in say the last 100 years should be familiar with the convention.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 8/5/2007 6:50:39 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:52:24 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     No, Bill, I don't think we can leave yet.  To simply walk away after creating such a mess...  I think that is a very poor option.  Iraq will have to find its own new equilibrium, but the forces seeking to create terror and civil war are our responsibility to deal with.  The price of abdicating that responsibility would be very, very high. 

     We would wind up going back into a war far more horrific than the present one.


  Bull shit.The civil war has nothing to do with us,other than our boys walking around with targets on the backs,getting killed by both sides.This civil war is NOT our responsibility.We can`t do a thing to stop it.We can only fuck things up worse.
History is littered with noble attempts to intervene in civil wars,few only a few successes.Single countries have never been able to do it.What makes you think we`re any different?

The al qaeda types would leave or get kicked out,once we left.
The fake argument that al qaeda would establish a base there,is more neo-con scare tactics and BS.They`re fucking establishing a base there now,with us there!
To say we`re staying to prevent that, is pure folly.They`ll go, where we go.I think we`ve inflicted enough al qaeda fighters on the Iraqis.

The argument that we`ll have "to go back in,and it  will be much worse",is more neo-con bull shit and scare tactics.Much worse compared to what?We`re being slowly bled out now.Bled out, because our soldiers weren`t trained to occupy or nation build.They were trained to kick ass,which they`ve done well.If they had to "go back in" again,they would kick ass again.I think they would much rather roll and battle,than play wack-a-mole or walk around with targets painted on there backs.

Just to bring folks up to speed,there is no more coalition government in Iraq.All the Sunnis have left.We have been arming Sunni militias/death squads for years now.We just started arming the Shiite militias,because of Sunny death squads and because the civil war is going into high gear.We`re still feeding arms to both sides,which in my opinion,is the devils work.That`s gotta stop.

We need to get out.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:55:17 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		And for those "We can't leave...".

What the hell are you going to do when Turkey rolls into Independent Kurdistan?

You going to fire on a NATO Ally?

Oh, and Al Qaeda isn't our problem... Shit just falling the fuck down and killing people is our problem.

Who needs Al Quada when we have the Federal Department of Transportation?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 8/5/2007 6:56:40 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:58:27 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
Constructive thoughts.

1)  Get our troops out of Iraq.  We have no business being there, we cannot fix the problem, as Tyler Durden pointed out in Fight Club: "Let's evolve, let the chips fall where they may."  We will go bankrupt trying to fix the problem.

2)  Apologize to the international community for the imperialistic hubris of the nitwits elected into office. 

3)  Start putting our money into muzzling corporate greed.   Make them our bitch.

4)  Stop subsidizing various industries, level the playing field.  Evolve or wither away.

5)  Start subsidizing research into alternative energy sources.  Wean completely off of foreign energy sources.

6)  Rebuild our infrastructure so that we remove ourselves from the automobile and oil addiction.
6a)  Bring back the electric vehicle.
6b)  Build our infrastructure to use mass transit systems that make sense.

7) Start cleaning up the environmental destruction brought about by Big Industry.

8)  Fund education, return to being the foremost intellectual country on the planet.  Put money into our future, not into a bunch of greedy has-beens.


I thought it might be useful for someone to actually respond to these thoughts, since Sinergy was kind enough to answer the request.
 
1) Agree. It seems like it will take fifteen the eighteen months to pull out completely. This should give the Iraqi's a clear message and enough time to form a stable government, if that's what they desire.
 
2) An empty gesture. I think everyone understands by now, that one of the bad things about Democracy, is that occasionally a poor leader, or one with slippery motives, will rise to power.
 
3) This will have to be a compromise between controlling greed, and allowing business to prosper. I think that is what you are saying, so I guess I agree.
 
4) Agree, and add ... we should do more to protect our own industry from foreign competition. This will only need to be in the short term, until the industrial base is rebuilt.
 
5) Stands up and cheer!!!
 
6) Remain standing ...
 
7) We better get started on this, while we still have a problem that can be fixed.
 
8) I think we do need more funding, but that alone won't fix the problem. As you know, I'm not that far out of High School, and the bottom line is that about half the kids just don't put any effort into their education. I don't have a fix for this, but can say that people continually talk about throwing more money at the schools where I live, and yet I know a bunch of kids of average intelligence (like me) that were able to get a wonderful education at my underfunded, "football factory" school. I think you are right. Education needs more money ... but, there is something else needed, and I honestly can't say what it is. We have to have a method to get kids excited about getting an education.

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I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 6:59:30 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Hell, Bush has 4 weeks left till the deadline for the surge, maybe the horse will learn to sing. I'd be making plans to withdraw myself...


One of the things that ticks me off, those withdrawal plans should have been made a looong time ago. Whether the intentions were good going in or not, we went in half-cocked. I know not every contingency can be planned for, but we could have done better.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 7:13:57 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       No worries, Caitlyn, I just don't want to get lost in endless "clarifications."  I'll be taking these one at a time.  I've been waiting so long to hear Sinergy say something beyond "monkeyboy sucks," it would be a pity to rush things. 

      

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 7:14:59 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I prefer to think of it more as Criminal Negligence. Bush had a POSITIVE DUTY to examine the downsides.

It's called, I believe, Due Diligence... I suppose someone with a Yale and Harvard education *should be* expected to understand the concept, but failure to perform such is, in the real world, a liability of considerable magnitude.

In this case, it kills 2.25 American Kids each and every day.

The ones who died yesterday, died because we did not bring them home, alive, the day before.

The ones who die today, die because we did not bring them home, alive, yesterday.

The ones who die tomorrow, die because we didn't bring them home, alive, today.

They all die, because we CHOOSE TO KILL THEM. And there's no reason except OUR CHOICE for them to die.




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 7:18:10 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I agree with level our guys do know what is going over there. the media always is bias on there reporting. it is never about the truth just their political agenda to derail republican stance on anything. It is like when they agave way the troops positions to the enemy. all we did was slap their wrist. if i was parent my son or daughter was over their i would be hot... sense when do numbers become more important then a life. sense when does doing the right thing mean destroying a great thing are country for purpose of self righteous people who chase after greed. this country is a great place paid for in blood and sweat and prosperity of fore fathers. my heart my thoughts and prays go out to our armed forces they make me proud to be an American


"I agree with level our guys do know what is going over there. the media always is bias on there reporting. it is never about the truth just their political agenda to derail republican stance on anything. It is like when they agave way the troops positions to the enemy."

1st of all,our guys want out of Iraq.Anyone telling you different, is a bush hack or a cool-aid drinker.

The media has done nothing but support our troops,and tell the truth.The nuts just don`t like what the truth is.Get your mind right.

And,lol, it was right-wing Fox News that gave away our troop`s positions,and Geraldo did get his pee-pee slaped for that,lol,and his ass kicked out of Iraq.You got a problem w/ that case,boycott Fox News,not "they".lol

"sense when do numbers become more important then a life."

What do you think we`re talking about?We`re talking about lives here.Jesus ...

 " sense when does doing the right thing mean destroying a great thing are country for purpose of self righteous people who chase after greed. this country is a great place paid for in blood and sweat and prosperity of fore fathers."

lol.....no comment.... 

 "my heart my thoughts and prays go out to our armed forces they make me proud to be an American"

Great!
Then act like it and call for their return home.

" if i was parent my son or daughter was over their i would be hot..."

By that, I take it you don`t have kids.Do America a favor, and don`t breed.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 7:33:16 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
No worries, Caitlyn, I just don't want to get lost in endless "clarifications."  I'll be taking these one at a time.  I've been waiting so long to hear Sinergy say something beyond "monkeyboy sucks," it would be a pity to rush things.  


I admit to not understand the reasoning behind the monkeyboy/anaceph(whatever)boy comments.
 
I wear contacts, and have for years. I once tried to change my look with some really expensive "Ms. Corporate" glasses. I thought they made me look smarter. After about a month, my best friend Pati actually reached out, grabbed them right off my face, and broke them. She told me she was sorry, but they made me look like a fucking goof.
 
Some of this name calling is sort of like that. Sometimes you just need a friend, to tell you how goofy you look.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 7:39:07 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I think the point is that someone as provably incompetent as Bush is undeserving of even the respect of being included in the family of Apes.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 7:56:26 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
1st of all,our guys want out of Iraq.Anyone telling you different, is a bush hack or a cool-aid drinker.



         Really?  I was on the phone with a soldier yesterday, who just re-enlisted for the second time, and he said quite the opposite about leaving Iraq.  He also votes Democrat, and hates kool-aid.

     

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 8:00:37 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I agree with level our guys do know what is going over there. the media always is bias on there reporting. it is never about the truth just their political agenda to derail republican stance on anything. It is like when they agave way the troops positions to the enemy. all we did was slap their wrist. if i was parent my son or daughter was over their i would be hot... sense when do numbers become more important then a life. sense when does doing the right thing mean destroying a great thing are country for purpose of self righteous people who chase after greed. this country is a great place paid for in blood and sweat and prosperity of fore fathers. my heart my thoughts and prays go out to our armed forces they make me proud to be an American


I wonder why our Secretary of Defense was in tears talking about the loss of American lives from the war then on CNN today?   Heh.. had to be tears of pride, I guess (rolling my eyes)

I predict he, too, will resign "to spend more time with his family".

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 8/5/2007 8:07:55 PM >

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 8:04:52 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Hell, Bush has 4 weeks left till the deadline for the surge, maybe the horse will learn to sing. I'd be making plans to withdraw myself...


One of the things that ticks me off, those withdrawal plans should have been made a looong time ago. Whether the intentions were good going in or not, we went in half-cocked. I know not every contingency can be planned for, but we could have done better.


True,there is a pending catastrophe looming,if we don`t get our ducks in  a row.
I hope bush is not so abstinent ,that he won`t reach out to the UN for help.
Just the other day,Hillery Clinton was bashed for even asking if there were such plans in place.I think bush`s pride, is costing us more than it`s worth.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/5/2007 8:10:20 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 8:07:39 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
1st of all,our guys want out of Iraq.Anyone telling you different, is a bush hack or a cool-aid drinker.



        Really?  I was on the phone with a soldier yesterday, who just re-enlisted for the second time, and he said quite the opposite about leaving Iraq.  He also votes Democrat, and hates kool-aid.

    


Sorry,I don`t believe you.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 8:10:19 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Really? Must be the area they are in because two friends of mine have mentioned the relations in the areas they have been in, have been real good. All the way to playing soccer, tag, basketball, and other such with some of the youths. They do say that there are many extremist that are around, that have a much different opinion.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

the topic is 180 from what a few kids that just got back told me.

they claim we are mostly hated by the iraqis and it was stoooopid to go in - in the first place



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Bad News From Iraq: We Might Be Winning - 8/5/2007 8:12:15 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Look at it this way.

One of the troops admitting that Bush totally fucked up means that they need to admit to themselves that they got CONNED.

If they don't maintain that, and they're cynical, they'll object to their honor being taken advantage of by the Bush Cowards. That's gotta really help discipline.

A lot of proud people can't admit they've been suckered by con-men. It's one reason that con-men are successful. The dumb mark is too proud to complain that they've been so stupid as to believe the obvious lies.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 80
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