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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 6:37:10 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
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Whippie dear friend, I feel for You. I don't think gameplayers and cheats are the majority here ... in either the D or the s camp, but they often have an uncanny knack of attracting each other. These girls had obviously attracted more than their share ... then, probably by good luck more than good management, they got a genuine one and didn't know how to handle that. There are basically 2 responses to being burned ... 1) do as these girls have done and allow it to make you become bitter and twisted and retaliatory in some way, either by building impenetrable walls (passive aggressive) or by playing the games yourself (active aggressive). Poor You, You got one of each! However the second alternative is to pick Yourself up, dust Yourself off, have a good long look at the situation, learn from it ... then go on with Your mind and heart still open but better equipped. That's clearly Your strategy here and I applaud that.

My dad hit the nail on the head years ago when he summed up my vanilla boyfriends as "a bunch of lame ducks". It seems I'm a magnet for them! I've always been mindful of that, and over the years I have tried to improve my "lame duck filters" with varying degrees of success. I wish I could say I am now entirely duck-free ... but only since I moved here in Feb I got burned by one  Crazy boy who strung Me along for months, saying so much right ... yet vanished when it came time to arrive here ... and it turned out he'd been collared for years to someone else and was just "testing himself" before finally going to live with Her 24/7! Was I pissed!! Well obviously he knew what to say, with all that training, so when I calmed down, I realised it had taken an expert to fool Me this time, and I felt just a little better about the state of My filters. At the moment I am hopeful of a new fem sub I am working with ... she is so much more direct to deal with than boys! And very analytical which I appreciate. Funnily enough, she's physically a bit lame due to a hip replacement, but so far, no signs of major mental lameness, just a bit of handleable baggage that's expected with anyone who's lived a few years! So, while I haven't entirely abandoned My "duck filters", I am feeling very good about where things are going. The first visit went wonderfully, and she will soon be here for 4-6 weeks, in a situation which will test U/us all in a good way. I guess I'll need to report back on My duck filters then! The other advantage I have is Master ... who is just that bit more emotionally remote from the situation and yet embedded in it, He is a wonderful second filter. Any Dom/me friends who could act that way for You Whippie? It can help to run things past someone else.

All the very best for future filtering and finding a real gem!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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(in reply to SweetCaleigh)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 6:39:10 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

quote:

There are so many fine men on here that try to live with honor and respect, and they do see themselves as the 'knight in shining armour' ready to rescue the damsel in distress...well guess what you get when you rescue her...yep,you're right,you get a 'distressed' damsel with LOTS of baggage...I have no clue what the answer is, but I see it over and over again....


Sounds like a great making for a few new Movie Scripts or even books.  Literally, have a knight in shinning armour come riding in to save some beautiful princess, however she's pathalogical liar and is crazy batshit with a lot of issues.  For added flavor to the story, turns out the situation she was in at the time of her rescuse was of her own doing.  That she's actually had over a 100 knights rescue her, and she's managed to loose everyone of them.  Could end the story with the princess locked and chained away in the dungeon somewhere for hers and others sanity and safety in the end.  The knight ends up with a beautiful commoner, and lives happy and peaceful.  hahaha
It was pointed out to me by a very wise man, when I went whining to him many moons ago that being a woman of a common sense nature, very little drama in my life and not in need of rescuing and basically has my s**t to gether..Why was it that most men in general seemed to gravitate to the little lost lambs?Why is it by not "needing" someone but "wanting" someone is so offputting?..His reply?...That in general men like to feel needed and wanted both..they like to know that they can make a positive difference in someones life, that they have something to contribute to that person..Now that I understand this, to a certain extent..I also can see where so many men tend to go for the not only "needy" ones, to rescue and challenge their dragons, but they tend to go overboard and become attracted to the ones where their dragons are ongoing, never ending, the attention seekers, the emotional vampires if you will..the huge neon signs that say rescue me!..Maybe Whiplash, you need to find the balance of knight and commoner within yourself, and adjust accordingly.....Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 6:57:29 PM   
HornyToadsMI


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Sorry you were burned.  I guess I look at this like a "dating" senario.  Some of us are attracted to the same type of guy over and over, eventho we know it is a bad situation.  These "girls" had something in common with each other, and that is why they found your profile.  It could take awhile the pattern to finally jump out.  I would just "tweak" your profile if you feel the need.

Good luck....it is they who are disfunctional......write them off.....

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i have the best job in the world - my Boss whips me!!!

Go with your gut - yes, I am being a Smart Ass!

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 7:24:46 PM   
leatherette


Posts: 255
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edit: I had a question, but i should ask in a new thread.
Don't want to hijack.

< Message edited by leatherette -- 8/17/2007 7:36:02 PM >

(in reply to Vampyrefledgling)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 7:45:54 PM   
becca333


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Women are socialised to be careful, and let's face it, when you start going towards the dark side on the net, you get a LOT of dangerous weirdos crawling out from under their rocks.  (Please note, I am in NO way suggesting you are one of them!)

For many people, especially women, this is how it works:

When you decide to play or search online, you know you have to be careful.  Cover yourself, conceal certain details.  Then you meet someone nice, get really interested, get shatteringly hurt, and you stop trusting.  Nobody is ever going to get that close or hurt you like that again.

They key word is 'play'.  For many people, cyber isn't real.  It's all a fantasy, you just assume the person you're dealing with is lying and enjoy the ride.  Cyber, email, even phone, it's all a game.  It's not real till it IS real, until you meet the person and see where and how they live (and who with) and find out if there's a partner, UM's, job, etc.

I think it's probably unrealistic to expect total openness and honesty from someone who's never met you, and doesn't know if YOU are being honest with them (and of course it really bites when you ARE being honest, and they're not, and you feel used and abused by their lack of trust.)

All you can do is what most of the other posters suggested - just take it lightly and keep that filter checking until you're sure the person is for real.  And if you're looking for someone for a genuine, r/l relationship, you're probably better off going to local munches and finding someone who's known in the scene, whose background you can check, etc.

(in reply to leatherette)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 8:24:06 PM   
asubmissiveheart


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Everyone alive can be burned by lies and games.
Submissives and Dominants can be burned by lies and games.
Most people do begin to open up, if they are honest and feel that they can trust
the person they are dealing with.
If they are not willing to open up, maybe they are not really looking for a serious
relationship.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 8:58:02 PM   
LATEXBABY64


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freaking tourist lol oh look this is fashionable i want to try this oops its not for me lol it can happen to anyone.. sure you can get burned.. you have subs that are harden by bad doms dommes and vise versa learning how to cleanses your self it the key to balance and integrity

(in reply to asubmissiveheart)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 10:04:27 PM   
dawntreader


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Greetings Whip,
 
Sorry you have had such a bad time...i tend not to give too much info, nor do i spend much time online/emails with someone before getting on the phone to arrange a real/time meet...including long distance. If someone is worth having a relationship with, they are worth the drive or flight to meet in person. i read body language better than e-mail and even then, i manage to get that wrong enough times that even when i am sitting naked on a piano, what you see is a very small part of me~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 10:15:35 PM   
shyinini


Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

Hey Gang,

I have encountered this twice now, since I have been on collarme.com.   I'm looking for any insight or experiences people have had with this problem.

Twice now, I have became involved with submissives and as things became more serious and over time, lies started slowly or suddenly popped up. 

Some of these lies were over the stupidist things ever, and others were major.  Now, if these had been complete strangers, I might not have gave a shit and simply wrote them off within 2.5 seconds flat.  However, I am the kind of guy that gives somebody a chance to come clean with me.   Let them explain their reasoning behind their lies.

What distrubs me is a "Common" excuse that both these sub/slave types used.  That they got burned a 1,000 times over by liars, and game players online themselves.  Personally, I feel this is just a poor excuse for bad behavior on their part.   It does concern me, that perhaps this is a trend or line of thinking that can evol over time.

The recent one, even finally admitted she was not looking for a relationship where communication and honesty were important.  She was just looking to have a relationship without those things.  She basically wants to hide behind her own protective walls.  She's been burned and hurt too many times.  She's not changing her ways any time soon either.   Wow, not what I expect, desire or want from somebody.   Her excuse was that if we were together in the real time, things would be different.   Personally, while I'm exploring something long distance with somebody, I want to get to know as best I can, before moving things into real time.   It appears, that she was playing games under the pretense that I myself might be playing games with her.

The one before this, she was pretending she had no kids.  Then one day, she let it slip out in conversation.   She actually threw the phone and was mad at herself.  Basically, she had made a personal vow to keep this a secret because...  A few dishonest Dom/Masters, used her kid as a sort of sales pitch to get her into a relationship.  Basically, made promises about everything they would do for her kid and etc...  In short, she realized that these guys had took some personal information and manipulated it against her.  She had actually went to live with one of these guys and he was extremely abusive.  She was one of those sub/slaves that disappears in the middle of night, taking what she can quickly gather up.  She needed to get her and her kid out of there.  

So, with all this said.   Both women have had bad experiences with Domly/Master playing games, lieing and manipulating them.

Both cases, they swore up and down they valued and were seeking honesty.  It appears they could not give the very thing they are looking for.

For sub/slaves out there, have you ever had any problems in being truthful for the any similar reasons?  What kind of problems did it cause for you?  Do you feel you did the right thing? 

For Dom/mes out there, have you encountered similar experiences?  How did you deal with it?  Were you able to work past this with any sub/slaves or did you simply write them off?   Were you able to confront them and hear similar excuses before packing it in?







First of all, my first thought is.... if these gals were put "under consideration" and restricted....  a response might be to lie to others cause they havent figured out yet that this is not a normal relationship type of developement.  
 
Second, to say it seems to be a trend is so way not right...dont put all of the rest of us in the hand bag of 2 seemingly uncreative and silly girls who lack integrity.
 
Third, maybe it is something you could stop if you looked long enough at the girl and realized she is full of it before you get "involved." 
 
Lying just doesnt pop into someone's personality...its who they are (my POV).  Excuses only allow someone to continue with bad behaviour.
 
I learned early on from a dom that there is NO EXCUSE for anything.  Take responsiblilty of what is said and done...period.  No excuses.  Maybe you allow excuses?? 
 
If Sir allowed me to give excuses...I'd be unowned. 

Sir's girl 

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.


(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/17/2007 10:29:09 PM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

quote:

There are so many fine men on here that try to live with honor and respect, and they do see themselves as the 'knight in shining armour' ready to rescue the damsel in distress...well guess what you get when you rescue her...yep,you're right,you get a 'distressed' damsel with LOTS of baggage...I have no clue what the answer is, but I see it over and over again....


Sounds like a great making for a few new Movie Scripts or even books.  Literally, have a knight in shinning armour come riding in to save some beautiful princess, however she's pathalogical liar and is crazy batshit with a lot of issues.  For added flavor to the story, turns out the situation she was in at the time of her rescuse was of her own doing.  That she's actually had over a 100 knights rescue her, and she's managed to loose everyone of them.  Could end the story with the princess locked and chained away in the dungeon somewhere for hers and others sanity and safety in the end.  The knight ends up with a beautiful commoner, and lives happy and peaceful.  hahaha
It was pointed out to me by a very wise man, when I went whining to him many moons ago that being a woman of a common sense nature, very little drama in my life and not in need of rescuing and basically has my s**t to gether..Why was it that most men in general seemed to gravitate to the little lost lambs?Why is it by not "needing" someone but "wanting" someone is so offputting?..His reply?...That in general men like to feel needed and wanted both..they like to know that they can make a positive difference in someones life, that they have something to contribute to that person..Now that I understand this, to a certain extent..I also can see where so many men tend to go for the not only "needy" ones, to rescue and challenge their dragons, but they tend to go overboard and become attracted to the ones where their dragons are ongoing, never ending, the attention seekers, the emotional vampires if you will..the huge neon signs that say rescue me!..Maybe Whiplash, you need to find the balance of knight and commoner within yourself, and adjust accordingly.....Tempting
very wise observation...I do notice it does make for fewer, but better quality dates...being self-sufficient that is

< Message edited by ELUSIVE1 -- 8/17/2007 10:32:51 PM >


_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe

http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/


(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 12:45:40 AM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I have to agree with L.A. {the grand poobah} on this one.
 
L.A.---I am stealing your line!  DRAMA attracts DRAMA

 


quick offtopic thread.......it is 2:42 in the morning here so forgive my lapse in judgement.
MzMia......I agree LA is the grand Poohbah (in my best Howard Cunningham voice)
IF the grand poobah says I am a sick mofo.......i believe her, bucko (channeling Richie now).  Shhhh! She is my secret weapon to save thousands on therapy.  La, would you read my profile and write out a prescription--just go ahead and phone it in to my pharmacy (You know the number).  <giggles>  LA is a very intuitive girl........(meant as a complement only)

Edited to Add:  Sorry Whiplash about the recent events from the two subbies who are responsible for this thread and sorry for my brief and odd hijack.


< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/18/2007 12:50:08 AM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 1:14:05 AM   
ladyred9


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Sorry to intrude on this. In my opinion , honesty is paramount, one lie , however trivial , and the trust is gone. Maybe I am odd , but that is just me

(in reply to SirEbonyPhoenix)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 2:27:25 AM   
lateralist1


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Ok finding out what someone wants from a relationship is difficult. We all tend to make assumptions about people when we first start to talk to them. Lots of people have a definite idea that they are worried will not fit into the other person's definite idea so they prevaricate. It's hard not to when you want the relationship a great deal.
People with children have to be very careful. Some people want a life outside the home and kids. Not a fantasy a real life but without the demands that children put on the relationship. The demands of kids can ruin a relationship faster than anything else. Women know that. They know that a lot of men don't want the responsibility. She probaly didn't dare tell you. If she had it either may have put you off or made you more eager which would then have worried her even more. Her lie was basic self preservation. You may not be a therapist but you have to have some common sense. Remember what she had just been through. It will take her a great deal of time to ever trust a man again. Of course she doesn't want to go to therapy she wants a man to help her with her problems. To control her. She knows what she needs.She just can't find one that cares enough to do it. She knows most men would rather play than take real responsibility for another human beings needs. Now you maybe different. You sound as if you are. She is crying out for help. So why not give it to her? Your supposed to be a Dom. Dominate her and be honest with her tell her what you want in return.

(in reply to ladyred9)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 3:45:27 AM   
came4U


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From: London, Ontario
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I can't say I've ever been burned.  Lied to? sure, men say things to get in a gal's pants I'm sure.  But, since I never met anyone R/l then I don't take it much to heart and lose sleep over it.  Makes one wonder if these subs act this way now because they jumped into relationships quickly just to have one and soon realized that being easy didn't get them very far.  Falling in love several times a year cannot be possible, if you ask me.  As for UM's there is no reason to not tell that they exist but actual discussion about them is not an absolute or necessary.

So, back to my orig. thought..so since the other man-huntin/keeping tactic didn't work mayhaps they think 'hmmm maybe if I am cold, build walls and do the hard to get thing, I can make him prove his adoration for me me me and work for it.  Trust me, in the end, she will probably accuse you of being less of a dominant later for this by being 'too kind'. lol.  Yeah, it is a vicious, never ending circle.

I try to take everyone's word as truth, until something gives me cause for suspicion. It isn't the actual lie that erks me, it is that they thought I was too stupid to notice it (or too lazy not to double check it). lol

I feel for ya OP, I really do.  Chin up, better pastures for you.  You do see the red flags but maybe your patient nature gives them too much leway and moving on earlier could have caused less grief.

 

(in reply to lateralist1)
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RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 4:11:01 AM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
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This is common with either submissives or dominants, men or women.  But there are people out there that just don't behave dishonestly.  I would like to think they far outweigh the dishonest one.  It is easy to convince ourselves that the dishonest ones abound, when those are the ones we attract to ourselves the most.  Why?  Each of us will have a different answer.  I think it is a worthy question to ask ourselves.

First example you gave: From what you said, it sounds like she may have come up with an excuse to push you away, for her own reasons.  Maybe something about the two of you together didn't quite feel like a fit.  Rather than be direct & tell you, she may have chosen to spare your feelings & her own embarrassment at being direct with you. 

2nd example:  I have a difficult time with women who are looking for a father figure for their offspring.  They find someone who promises the moon with regard to their family & then are disappointed or worse when things don't work out.  I have much more respect for someone who figures out how to work & support their own families, when a parent is absent. (I speak from personal experience.)   Those people, at least to me, in the long run, have much more to offer to someone who will be either their dominant or their submissive.  Who knows, this woman could very well been lying about having offspring, because like the first example, may have been giving you an excuse to give you an out because she didn't feel comfortable with the fit. 

Someone told me a story long ago, that may show both examples you gave, if the women were being truthful at all. 

A woman has a plate that means the world to her.  She loves it, keeps it on display, & cherishes it.  One day, it falls off the wall & cracks.  She tries to fix it, but can't erase the mark of the crack, so she puts glue in it to seal it the best she can. She still cherishes it.  Time goes by & the plate falls again.  The crack is still intact from the last fix, but this time, the plate breaks in 2, on a different place.  She picks it up, glues it again in an attempt to fix it.  The plate is never the same, but still she cherishes it. 

Time goes by again, & this time, the plate is put in a more secure position.  Still, it falls again & it is broken into many pieces. Somehow she manages to glue it back together, but some shards are missing.  The plate doesn't look the same, but it was something she cherished, only now, she hides it in the bottom of her drawer.  She takes it out from time to time, to look at it & thinks about all that happened to that plate.  50 years later, she still has the plate.  She remembers all her painstaking care she took to try to fix it. She still cherishes it, but it will never be the same.

That plate has affected how she has treated other cherished items.  She hides them, keeps them safe, much more protected, but no one can see the beauty of  these cherished items, except her, in her own private world during those few moments when she decides to risk taking her cherished item out of hiding. 

I think people's hearts are very much like the woman's plate.  Once damaged, they may be fixed, but they are never the same. 

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 5:57:10 AM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline
quote:


What distrubs me is a "Common" excuse that both these sub/slave types used.  That they got burned a 1,000 times over by liars, and game players online themselves.  Personally, I feel this is just a poor excuse for bad behavior on their part.   It does concern me, that perhaps this is a trend or line of thinking that can evol over time.
[...]

Personally, while I'm exploring something long distance with somebody, I want to get to know as best I can, before moving things into real time.   It appears, that she was playing games under the pretense that I myself might be playing games with her.

It is useful to share values.  That is where I start with someone.  If a potential partner does not have a clear moral compass I'm not interested.  That means that the potential doesn't start lying cause someone else is, they have their own sense of integrity which is not swayed by another's lack of integrity.

Second point.   You can try to know someone as much as possible before meeting them.  Just not sure it's possible.  Maybe long distance is not your thing.  Yet.


_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 6:56:08 AM   
RaynaSub


Posts: 185
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline
People are people, and you can't use being burned as an
excuse for lying and playing games.
Everyone in the world has an excuse, I don't know to many
people that have had a perfect life.
I think you need to examine the women you are choosing, and maybe
long distance is not for you.

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 9:07:20 AM   
leatherette


Posts: 255
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1

People with children have to be very careful. Some people want a life outside the home and kids. Not a fantasy a real life but without the demands that children put on the relationship. The demands of kids can ruin a relationship faster than anything else. Women know that. They know that a lot of men don't want the responsibility. She probaly didn't dare tell you. If she had it either may have put you off or made you more eager which would then have worried her even more. Her lie was basic self preservation.  Remember what she had just been through. It will take her a great deal of time to ever trust a man again. Of course she doesn't want to go to therapy she wants a man to help her with her problems. To control her. She knows what she needs.She just can't find one that cares enough to do it. She knows most men would rather play than take real responsibility for another human beings needs. She is crying out for help. So why not give it to her? Your supposed to be a Dom. Dominate her and be honest with her tell her what you want in return.


Hi, a deep thread isn't it?  Again -warm wishes for Whiplash. 
 
lateralist: i hope you don't mind me asking or highlighting your post.
I could understand the emotion of the woman - but I just can't see a healthy justification for such a lie. 
 
 As I said before I am not a mother. Am I lucky or cursed?
( I am satisfied with my choices)
 
I imagine being child free can be a plus in any dating pool. But - to say one's own flesh and blood don't exist - to me at least, is extreme.
 
If a man is put off by the thought of being responsible for another man's offspring - I do think that is his perogative.
 
The real father of the children is the one who should be responsible for his children. If that man could be so selfish to deny his own in whatever way- that is a terrible shame. 
 
 I don't see the fault, or failure of the potential new man in the single mother's life to have a right to make a choice for himself with relevant knowledge.  I would hope a woman would let the man have a voice in deciding to  accept such responsibilty or not.
 
There are plenty of divorced dads out there too.
 Imagine: a kinky Brady Bunch?!
 
 
 

(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 12:43:40 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1

Ok finding out what someone wants from a relationship is difficult. We all tend to make assumptions about people when we first start to talk to them. Lots of people have a definite idea that they are worried will not fit into the other person's definite idea so they prevaricate. It's hard not to when you want the relationship a great deal.
People with children have to be very careful. Some people want a life outside the home and kids. Not a fantasy a real life but without the demands that children put on the relationship. The demands of kids can ruin a relationship faster than anything else. Women know that. They know that a lot of men don't want the responsibility.


I have to agree with leatherette on this one.  You almost sound as if there would be something wrong for a man to not want the responsibility of another man's children...please correct me if I am wrong.
As the divorced father of two and the ex-husband of an ex who, like me, began dating soon after our divorce, I always considered MY kids MY responsibility.  I would not have expected my ex to look at a potential partner and tell him that he had to take on the responsibility of two ums...she knew where the responsibility for those two laid and she expected it to be picked up by the one who produced those children with her...me. 
As for children ruining a relationship...if it happens, it generally happens because they end up being a bigger drain on the parent's time than the partner anticipated.  But you know, as has been discussed in a previous thread, that is something that parents can avoid by remembering that though their kids may be their first priority, they are not their only priority.  Bringing in someone into your life and expecting them to "just get that" and deal with it is not fair.  And when those kids grow up and graduate, then what?  If it creates a problem within families in which the father of those kids and the mother of those kids are both present, imagine a situation in which a new guy comes into a woman's life and she wants him to be a part of her life but to understand that her kids will always come first, no matter what the situation?  Is he a "responsibility-shirker" for walking away from this situation?  How many women want to hook up with a man who says he wants her but his work will always come first?  Or his parents?  Or...if she is childless and he is not...HIS kids?  There are profiles on here wherein women submissives state right out that they do not want to be involved with a male dominant who has young children or children at all.  Are they afraid of responsibility?

quote:

 She probaly didn't dare tell you. If she had it either may have put you off or made you more eager which would then have worried her even more. Her lie was basic self preservation. You may not be a therapist but you have to have some common sense. Remember what she had just been through. It will take her a great deal of time to ever trust a man again. Of course she doesn't want to go to therapy she wants a man to help her with her problems. To control her. She knows what she needs.She just can't find one that cares enough to do it. She knows most men would rather play than take real responsibility for another human beings needs. Now you maybe different. You sound as if you are. She is crying out for help. So why not give it to her? Your supposed to be a Dom. Dominate her and be honest with her tell her what you want in return.

Needs to be answered are very different from situations requiring rescue.  A woman who needs help in structuring her life, straightening out her financials, etc. is quite a bit different from a woman who needs a father figure for their children or a woman is just thisclosetobeing homeless.  You can find endless variety among dominants in regards to the obligations they want to take on, feel that they should be willing to take on.  As is often stated by many submissives on here, the amount of themselves and the amount of control over their lives they wish to yield to another is up to them.  By the same token, should not the amount of obligation and helpgiving the dominant is willing to take on be up to them?  And should that not be discussed between the two involved and for it to be discussed fairly, should there not be honesty involved?  Just as in vanilla, how well does it bode for any D/s dynamic that begins with lies?

I agree that there are many women who need rescuing...and many knights who will try to rescue them.  And I also believe that for many, if not most men, there is a need within us to not only be wanted but needed.  But I also believe that for me...and a lot of other dominants...we want to be needed for US...not just because the submissive needs a dominant (and any dominant willing to take on her problem would do)...but because we are who WE are.  If tempting or windchymes or elusive or whoever says they need me, I want it to mean that they need ME because what I am makes me unique to them, not because I am a dominant willing to take on their problems.



(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Submissives burned by lies and games. - 8/18/2007 1:01:11 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
I have always felt that once you have a child, your own needs become secondary. Not to say they should be denied, but secondary. I to, am a divorced father. My own child is now 23 years old so it is not such an issue. If she were younger I would want the person I was considering a relationship with to know of her existance. Even today, to not mention her is the omision of an important part of my life.

Jeff

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 60
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