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defiantbadgirl -> baggage (8/28/2007 9:42:45 PM)
Why is it that so many people bash anyone on here that tries to help submissives look for red flags? I have seen such threads several times and always with the same reaction. Submissives need to learn from their own mistakes. Getting their heart broken a few times will teach them common sense. The problem with this reasoning is that although they may learn from these bad experiences, what good does it do them if because of these lessons everybody thinks they need to learn, nobody wants them? That's right, I'm talking about baggage. The favorite reason of so many men to refuse to get to know a woman. If a woman treated a man badly and made him suffer for the actions of other men before him, I could understand. But many times, men don't get to know a woman long enough to find out whether or not she will take anything out on them. They find out she has had a few failed relationships, ASSUME she will do this, and run. If a woman has a mentor, she's weak and incapable of making her own decisions. If she learns from experience, she has baggage. Learning from one's own mistakes might have been the best way for women years ago, but now it's a double edge sword.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 9:49:51 PM)
this is very true life lessons are always the best teacher if someone is dead set on something they will do what ever regardless what advice you give.. so your right it is better to learn the lesson of hard knocks

defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 9:55:16 PM)
At one time, it was better to learn this way. Until men came up with the whole baggage thing. Now I'd have to say it's much better to have a mentor.. It does no good to learn the hard way if the only result is people avoiding you because they assume you have baggage.

Alumbrado -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 9:55:33 PM)
Learning from experience makes a person more capable, carrying baggage makes someone less so. As far as criticizing someone who refuses to put down the baggage, what should we do... enable them?

domiguy -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 9:56:21 PM)
dbg....I really have no idea what you are alluding to here....As I get older I just assume that all of the women that I meet have a past....Some have made it down the driveway others several times around the block....If we see eye to eye it's all good....If we don't click then it ain't going to happen. Just because you have a past does not mean that it is baggage.... When men talk of baggage most of them are referring to kids...If someone is emotionally banged up? Then it depends on the degree and how much someone is willing to help and what kind of patience is demanded to help someone get back up on their feet or knees. But fucked up...Is still fucked up....No one likes to deal with fucked up...They might fuck it or have it blow them...But few hang around and deal with fucked up unless they tend to be fucked up as well.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:01:31 PM)
i was thinking about something about mental programming a Dom's domme mental programming how to de program someone from low self esteem issues.. there are couple of books out that talk about brain washing from prisoners that were in Vietnam and ww2.. baggage to me is self brainwashing you into be leaving something your not or someone making you think your something your not just my take on things

defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:02:04 PM)
No, a woman who takes out her pain from past relationships on a new man innocent of any wrong doing should most definitely NOT be enabled. What I'm saying is.that many men ASSUME women will do this and refuse to get to know them. Not all women do this, but they aren't given a chance to prove otherwise. That's why I say forget the school of hard knocks and go for a mentor instead. That way you can't be accused of having "baggage" just because you have been in relationships that didn't work out.

domiguy -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:05:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl No, a woman who takes out her pain from past relationships on a new man innocent of any wrong doing should most definitely NOT be enabled. What I'm saying is.that many men ASSUME women will do this and refuse to get to know them. Not all women do this, but they aren't given a chance to prove otherwise. That's why I say forget the school of hard knocks and go for a mentor instead. That way you can't be accused of having "baggage" just because you have been in relationships that didn't work out. There is not a guy that I have ever met....And I mean "EVER" met who feels the way that you think they do.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:15:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl No, a woman who takes out her pain from past relationships on a new man innocent of any wrong doing should most definitely NOT be enabled. What I'm saying is.that many men ASSUME women will do this and refuse to get to know them. Not all women do this, but they aren't given a chance to prove otherwise. That's why I say forget the school of hard knocks and go for a mentor instead. That way you can't be accused of having "baggage" just because you have been in relationships that didn't work out. By the way, I can think of someone right now that assumed that very thing about me in another thread. You. I have baggage. I'm a nut case. I need counseling. Remember? There is not a guy that I have ever met....And I mean "EVER" met who feels the way that you think they do. If that's the case, then why are so many Doms on here always talking about baggage? They all want drama free baggage free. But what does learning from ones own mistakes cause? Baggage and drama. In real life, I run into the same thing. Doms don't want me because I learned the hard way. They assume I have baggage and refuse to even get to know me. If I took what the jerks did to me out on others, then why have I never been accused of it by anyone that did get to know me?

chellekitty -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:16:21 PM)
ummm baggage is not i had a relationship and it didn't work out baggage is not i had a really fucked up relationship and i got really hurt but i learned what to look for... baggage is i still call my ex from 5 years ago's phone number to listen to his voice mail and hang up or make up some kind of sales call if he actually answers baggage is i compare each and every person i come across to the teacher i had in 10th grade who told me i would never make it, and expect them to do the same thing baggage is not your experiences but rather how you deal/dealt with them and how much of them you carry with you still today... i know so many of ya'll will disagree with me on this, probably just for the sake of arguing, but when we (as human beings) are introduced to something new...whether it be stoves or electricity or D/s relationships...if someone tells us not to do something, why not to do that thing, what will happen if we do that thing...we have to at least do a little bit of that thing to see if what that person said is true...don't touch the stove while its hot....keep pennies out of the sockets...don't get in a relationship with him/her...you're gonna wave you're hand over the burner...slide the penny in the socket like its a coin slot (children, please do not try that at home, even if you do have electric working rubber gloves)... and go talk to him/her...fact of life...mentor or no, trusted advisor or no...and heck if someone down right bans you from doing it...you're probably going to want to do it all that more...its the whole...don't think about prancing pink packaderms (what are you thinking about) thing... btw....baggage would be...stoves are evil, you have to do all the cooking...i can't ever use electricity, i am now a hobbit living off the land, and relationships with new people are bad, i have these 3 friends that i have known forever and no matter how toxic they are, they are good because they are not new... drops her dime in the jar cause she gave more than her 2 cents chelle

chellekitty -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:18:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl If that's the case, then why are so many Doms on here always talking about baggage? They all want drama free baggage free. But what does learning from ones own mistakes cause? Baggage and drama. In real life, I run into the same thing. Doms don't want me because I learned the hard way. They assume I have baggage and refuse to even get to know me. If I took what the jerks did to me out on others, then why have I never been accused of it by anyone that did get to know me? hate to break up your pity party but could it possibly be the way you present yourself?

domiguy -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:22:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl No, a woman who takes out her pain from past relationships on a new man innocent of any wrong doing should most definitely NOT be enabled. What I'm saying is.that many men ASSUME women will do this and refuse to get to know them. Not all women do this, but they aren't given a chance to prove otherwise. That's why I say forget the school of hard knocks and go for a mentor instead. That way you can't be accused of having "baggage" just because you have been in relationships that didn't work out. By the way, I can think of someone right now that assumed that very thing about me in another thread. You. I have baggage. I'm a nut case. I need counseling. Remember? There is not a guy that I have ever met....And I mean "EVER" met who feels the way that you think they do. If that's the case, then why are so many Doms on here always talking about baggage? They all want drama free baggage free. But what does learning from ones own mistakes cause? Baggage and drama. In real life, I run into the same thing. Doms don't want me because I learned the hard way. They assume I have baggage and refuse to even get to know me. If I took what the jerks did to me out on others, then why have I never been accused of it by anyone that did get to know me? It's got to be the pink type....Scientifically proven Doms have an adverse reaction to subs who over utilize pink type...Otherwise you seem perfectly normal....It's gotta be the type.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:23:32 PM)
Honestly, I don't get your point. If someone carries their baggage around like a 10 ton chip on his or her shoulder, then it isn't any persons fault if that person appears undesirable. Having a mentor doesn't make you weak. I don't know why it would be implied it does. It implies you are willing to learn and be guided. However, having a mentor still doesn't guarantee you won't get hurt. Mentors guide and train, but eventually you still have to go out and build a relationship with someone. I'm not saying don't have a mentor. I think that for many people, they are an excellent option. But, as I said, they aren't a guarantee of happily ever after. Not by a long shot. I think lumping any orientation or gender into a single category and claiming they all think the same is a myopic view of things. Quite honestly, I think your view is rather skewed and off base. If a man were to demand a partner have no baggage, he'd be labeled a pedophile because that's about the only options he'd have available to him. Seriously though, there's a BIG difference between a crate of insecurities, resentments, trust and abondonment issues and an experienced woman who has learned from her mistakes and matured into a loving, caring, confident and enlightened person. If you can learn to differentiate between the two, perhaps you would be halfway toward resolving your own issues.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:25:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty ummm baggage is not i had a relationship and it didn't work out baggage is not i had a really fucked up relationship and i got really hurt but i learned what to look for... baggage is i still call my ex from 5 years ago's phone number to listen to his voice mail and hang up or make up some kind of sales call if he actually answers baggage is i compare each and every person i come across to the teacher i had in 10th grade who told me i would never make it, and expect them to do the same thing baggage is not your experiences but rather how you deal/dealt with them and how much of them you carry with you still today... chelle Of course that's what real baggage is. I agree 100%. What I'm saying is, people like to ASSUME someone is going to take bad experiences out on them. They don't even have to do anything. Just the knowledge that a sub has experienced failed relationships sets off the "warning, drama, baggage" bell in a man's mind and he runs the other way.

Tigrita -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:31:37 PM)
I'm really glad you are taking a stand here DBG. I saw the other thread too that inspired this one, and I agree and think it is important for people to be supportive and help people out here. When someone is new in town and doesn't know the ropes and the bad neighborhoods, should people just say, "well, they may get mugged a few times, but they'll figure it out". That isn't a perfect example, sure common sense counts for something, but that is no reason for people to be abrasive to people who are just trying to help disoriented (possibly in many more ways than one) newcomers have a positive experience. Sure, people want different things. Sure, people should use common sense. Sure tough experiences are part of life that people usually survive. But whether someone is strong and independent, or weak and confused, we don't have to be passive, we can be supportive! That is not the same as enabling. It is just about being a positive citizen, instead of an apathetic or worse, negative one. I've often been really impressed with the supportiveness of this online community (and yes, I consider it a community like any other), it would be really nice to see even more of that, I'm sorry to see that this topic is drawing out the negative nellies when it could be drawing strong, powerful, adventurous people together for great experinces.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:33:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl hate to break up your pity party but could it possibly be the way you present yourself? So I'm presenting myself in a bad way because I think subs are better off seeking a mentor than learning the hard way so they can be thought of as "used goods with baggage" and avoided?

Cuckme4Life -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:37:52 PM)
My ex was a psycho from hell with tons of baggage she wont let go of. Every day with her was a walk on eggshells trying to avoid any comparisons with all her ex`s she has determined were evil monsters in spite of her own nasty behaviors. Now i am the so called monster but so what? I moved on. It hurt yea, but i did what i had to do. LEAVE for my own sanitys sake. And i left my baggage concerning her at her front step. As for HERE on CME, the biggest issue i see is liars and fakes by the dozens. I am sure thats quite common in many of our/Our cases on this message board. For me it is to the point it feels like baggage every time that new email comes in from someone from Jackson or Nashville that claims to be real thing and only pans out to be yet another letdown lying sack of crap. Unfortunately ive developed a "yeah right, prove it" mentality that can be also seen as baggage where CMe is concerned. After all this time i literally have a list of proven liars and fakes in my blocked section. Thats my baggage!!!

chellekitty -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:46:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl So I'm presenting myself in a bad way because I think subs are better off seeking a mentor than learning the hard way so they can be thought of as "used goods with baggage" and avoided? nope, i was refering to your profile...

defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 10:47:25 PM)
Thank you for your response Tigrita. I'd also like to add something else. What about all the subs and even the vanilla women out there that truly do have baggage? Would they have that baggage if they hadn't been through the school of hard knocks? For those of us who have gotten through it with minimal damage, we have to suffer men assuming we have baggage. For others, the school of hard knocks has caused severe psychological damage. I don't see what's so wonderful about the school of hard knocks when it leads to either others assuming and rejection, mental damage, or both.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/28/2007 11:01:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cuckme4Life My ex was a psycho from hell with tons of baggage she wont let go of. Every day with her was a walk on eggshells trying to avoid any comparisons with all her ex`s she has determined were evil monsters in spite of her own nasty behaviors. Now i am the so called monster but so what? I moved on. It hurt yea, but i did what i had to do. LEAVE for my own sanitys sake. And i left my baggage concerning her at her front step. As for HERE on CME, the biggest issue i see is liars and fakes by the dozens. I am sure thats quite common in many of our/Our cases on this message board. For me it is to the point it feels like baggage every time that new email comes in from someone from Jackson or Nashville that claims to be real thing and only pans out to be yet another letdown lying sack of crap. Unfortunately ive developed a "yeah right, prove it" mentality that can be also seen as baggage where CMe is concerned. After all this time i literally have a list of proven liars and fakes in my blocked section. Thats my baggage!!! I'm sorry you went through this. The school of hard knocks many people think is so wonderful obviously damaged her very badly. Now, because of the way she was damaged, you have baggage. I feel bad for both you and your ex. Fortunately, you're a man. Therefore you are less likely to be avoided because of baggage. Although I'm sure there are a few women out there with the whole avoid all possible drama and baggage at all costs attitude, the majority are men.

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