RE: baggage (Full Version)

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MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 12:06:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simply Michael

Wolf,

What you are saying is EXACTLY what victimizers do.  Take someone who is vulnerable, who continues to make bad choices in men and rather than teach her to make better choices, takes her side and says nothing is her fault, just come into your arms and everything will be fine.

I am not saying YOU are a victimizer but the relationship style you speak of is the same as a victimizer or at best an enabler.  You of course will see this as a personal attack but having seen your type operate, I really don't care how you take it.


I do not take it as a personal attach it is just your opinion and I thank you for your thought. I as any human being learn as I go in life. I like you am here just sharing my opinion no more no less. I do not clam to be an expert in anything and I surely do not have time to save the world or do I want to.... I do tend to defend others and maybe that comes from being the oldest of 4 siblings. Maybe it comes from being the victim when I was young and being bullied for being different in school. Who knows? Who cares? I do know I learn every day and in fact myself could care less what anyone thinks about me or my opinions including you as I am the only one who has to like me...

As for seeing my type operate.. That is interesting I am a person you do not know yet you judge what type of person I am..... you know nothing about me yet you clam to know my type...  

"edit to add" I would also point out I have never one time in any post I have made accused any one person on CM of anything yet I would also point out in the last two days you have accused me of  "trying to get laid by saying I care about someone in a post" and now you make a statement " I am not saying YOU are a victimizer but the relationship style you speak of is the same as a victimizer or at best an enabler " Who made you an expert on what or who I am and what gives you the right to pass judgment.... on others



callistaIn -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 12:07:15 PM)

Baggage is a good thing. Most EVERYONE carries around some kind of baggage from their past. The difference is in how you present that baggage. You can either choose to let it dictate your life; or you could choose to learn from it to better yourself.

Most partners will turn/run away from someone who wears their baggage like a shield/medal of honor. Why should they take the time to try and work through YOUR issues when YOU have not even taken the time to try and do so yourself?

As for pointing out red flags to submissives and such, for the purpose of keeping them from acquiring baggage...well...the only way a person can learn to better themselves is by making mistakes ( whether they be huge, or small ). We learn from the past so that our future can be better. I am not saying that one should not try and help out those who seek it; only that we can not be there 24/7 for them...they have to take those steps sooner or later and I am sorry, but everyone makes mistakes at one time or another...you learn from them and move on.

callie



CreativeDominant -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 12:18:41 PM)

At my age, I am not likely going to hook up with a woman who does not have a past.  I assume this going into any potential relationship and I watch her behaviors and listen to her words and see how she responds when something is said to her about a point she seems stuck on...baggage. 

I have a past...I know the aches that come with that past and the buttons that some of that past created.  I could have let the buttons remain buttons or I could turn them into lessons in how to deal with what leads to those buttons.  For example...I don't like getting in a conversation with someone who wants to make sure you hear their point, wants to make sure they express themselves first and then, when it is your turn, they walk away saying "they've heard it all before from me".  That was my ex's way of doing things and it made me angrier and angrier.  The counselor I went to finally helped me see that she was creating a button and then pushing it every time she did it, trying to get a rise out of me.  She was creating something that could be future baggage for me.  He taught me that I did not have to accept that and to state right out that in future "disagreements/discussions" that I would not engage in any in which I was not heard equally, even if that meant I spoke first.

People bash those who seem to constantly make the same mistake and never learn.  Having a mentor is not going to fix an inability to learn.  That comes from within...the ability to introspect and listen to what the mentor or counselor is teaching you.  Learning from your mistakes is learning what is creating a button, what type of person and behavior pushes those buttons you cannot get rid of and how to either turn that behavior another way or not deal with people that push those buttons.  Some on here seek advice, get heartfelt advice, then go out and come back again and again seeking the same advice for the same problem.  Where is the learning there?  Where is the introspection of self and learning about oneself?



Alumbrado -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 12:22:08 PM)

quote:

Who made you an expert on what or who I am and what gives you the right to pass judgment.... on others



If you fulfill a stereotype, people are going to react to you as though you were that stereotype. 
You are apparently the victim of all the 'Twue Doms' and 'Chivalrous Masters' who have posted before you.



MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 12:31:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Who made you an expert on what or who I am and what gives you the right to pass judgment.... on others



If you fulfill a stereotype, people are going to react to you as though you were that stereotype. 
You are apparently the victim of all the 'Two Doms' and 'Chivalrous Masters' who have posted before you.


Well to stereo type anyone is in and of itself judgemental... as for being a victim no I don't think I am anyone's victim. I am just Me Love me or Hate me I really don't care... I am the culmination of my life's experiences and an ever changing block of clay molded by life's experiences on a daily basses.



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 1:14:10 PM)

quote:

Sociology. a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group.




If it is judgmental to work off a commonly accepted, standardized conception, then aren't you being rather judgmental of yourself, to identify with the label "Dominant?"

Never mind.  Maybe that's a topic for another discussion. 



MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 1:35:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

Sociology. a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group.




If it is judgmental to work off a commonly accepted, standardized conception, then aren't you being rather judgmental of yourself, to identify with the label "Dominant?"

Never mind.  Maybe that's a topic for another discussion. 


A very good point and one for thought thank you. I do however only consider myself a man. I am dominant by my nature however not by title. I would also point out the labels or titles given are just that labels or titles no more no less. They are in fact just words.. I can not be a Master or Dom unless I have someone who considers me hers and calls me by that title or label.



slaveish -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 1:59:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

At one time, it was better to learn this way. Until men came up with the whole baggage thing. Now I'd have to say it's much better to have a mentor.. It does no good to learn the hard way if the only result is people avoiding you because they assume you have baggage.



~fast reply after only reading this far~

Even if one has a mentor, without some personal responsibility and conviction to change one's own behavior, one will continue to learn the hard way.



defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 2:16:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Why is it that so many people bash anyone on here that tries to help submissives look for red flags?

Maybe because the 'person' trying to help is nothing more than a talking dick.
quote:

Submissives need to learn from their own mistakes 

They do.
quote:

  That's right, I'm talking about baggage. The favorite reason of so many men to refuse to get to know a woman.

Sounds to me that the issue does lie with YOU. If you are attracting men of this kind, then obviously you are attracting them for a reason.

Perhaps, if you stopped calling all men fuck ups, and started taking some responsibility yourself; things just might turn around for you.

/shrugs

Not that I really care one way or another; but your poor me attitude does start to grate on the nerves after a time


Obviously, not all men are fuck ups. If they were, I wouldn't be able to talk about those who did get to know me. Take some responsibility for myself? I think I've been doing that all along. If I hadn't, I wouldn't be able to honestly say that not one single man I have been with has ever thought I took anything out on them that happened in a past relationship. This post has nothing to do with a "poor me" anything. It has to do with Doms thinking subs should learn everything the hard way, then avoiding them like the plague because learning the hard way means they have to have baggage. That's where I see the double edge sword.



Squeakers -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 2:24:51 PM)

   I think the problem is that everyone has their own style.   What one sees as a red flag may not be a red flag for someone else.   I remember years ago people in a chat room telling new comers to ask for references about a Dom from his peers in the chat room---if no one had references for him it was a RED FLAG.   Some people are very private about themselves and it doesn't mean that they are some predator in disguise.   These same people said that a person who is private about themselves is also a red flag.   
  For me when I first started out on the net, I at least had some real time experience but that did not stop me from absorbing all of the 'rules' I heard in banter in a chat room.   Half of what I learned, was basically bullshit made up and passed down by who the hell knows.   I still learned things the hard way and with that have chosen my own style that fits me personally.  
 Baggage?   Find me one person that does not have some sort of baggage.   We all have some sort of baggage.   What we choose to do with the baggage is the key here.   We can unpack it---deal with it, get rid of it and move on, or we can tote it around for ever.  



defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 2:31:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrSkyWoIf

I agree this poster has a self esteem problem but bashing her will not help the matter... Then your statement "Maybe because the 'person' trying to help is nothing more than a talking dick" Makes the accusation that anyone who post a question you do not agree with is little more then a talking Dick... Sounds to me like maybe you have a little baggage of your own to deal with......


Thanks for sticking up for me. I am curious to know why I appear to have a self esteem problem. I'm a college student who has taken courses in Psychology, Sociology, and Social Work. In these classes, self esteem was discussed alot. There were also self esteem evaluations. I never scored abnormally low or extremely high in self esteem. I was always in the average range. Considering this, plus the fact that not one man who has gotten to know me has thought I took anything out on him, I must conclude that the only men who think I have baggage are those who ASSUME and never get to know me.



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 2:34:07 PM)

[sm=banghead.gif]



defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 2:56:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Why is it always the submissive types that have the baggage in posts like this?
How often do you hear women talk about avoiding men who might have baggage?

Why is it always the big ole bad male dominants that are the ones that are picked on?
see responding question above
Why does this post come across as personalised, sexist, and anti-a-particular-orientation?
Oh, there are always exceptions. But the majority of people who have the "if there is any chance someone might have baggage, assume the worst and avoid" mentality are male.
 
I have baggage and it rocks having it.  Mean I have a past.  It means I have something to learn from.
The only time baggage is negative is when its stuffed with nastiness that someone shoves on another and tries to get them to cross the borders/limits with it - without prior warning.
I totally agree with this statement. I'm talking about people who assume someone is damaged goods and has baggage just because they have been through a few failed relationships.
 
Peace
the.dark.


To those out there who love to assume the worst. Just because someone has been in a few failed relationships does not mean this person will take it out on you. Until the person actually takes something out on you, all you're doing is assuming. Before you start assuming the worst in others, take a long look at yourself. How many failed relationships have you been in? How would you feel if people frequently refused to get to know you based on assumption?



RCdc -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 3:19:32 PM)

I know many men who have baggage.
I am just a little tired of the sexist and anti-orientation threads.  Like there aren't any big old bad submissives fucking men around.  Now that might have a lot to do with social conditioning.  Any man being open with the fact he has been abused is seen as weak... so you just do not see it mentioned publically as much.  But in private, it happens just as much.  You just don't see it exercised on message boards.
 
Threads like these perpetuate the myths that female submissives are weak and always get fucked over and never know how to handle themselves or their own history.  That all dominants are all male bad asses who can't be trusted and that switches NEVER suffer(because they are never ever mentioned in threads like this).  It creates them and us attitudes.  It is a poison.
 
When the reality is, maybe men just know how to pick and choose who they discuss intimate details with, and do not choose to gossip about their loses in public... and switches really do have their heads screwed on tighter and arent as 'confused' as some people would like to make them out to be.
 
Peace
the.dark.

 



gypsygrl -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 4:22:30 PM)

quote:

But the majority of people who have the "if there is any chance someone might have baggage, assume the worst and avoid" mentality are male.


I see this sort of thing coming from women all the time.  A lot of the 'red flags' people put out as reasons to avoid something could be read specifically as 'red flags alerting the casual observer to baggage' which is why I don't participate in 'red flag' discussions. 

Take the commonly mentioned red flag, the other only gives you a cell phone # and no land line #.  I only have a cell phone, and the reason I only have a cell phone is because 1) a D was using my land line to harass me which is the same as saying I have baggage and 2) two phones are expensive and I'm divorced with a kid and didn't come out of my marriage with the healthiest financial portfolio which is the same as saying I have baggage and 3) my ex pays for my cell phone because he's a control freak and wants 'us' to be on a family plan so he can talk to the kids whenever the spirit moves him without having to worry about expenses because he's also broke which is the same as saying I have baggage. 

Another one is the other person only accepts calls at a specific time.  Again, when I was looking, I generally did calls by appointment largely because I have kids and don't want to be constantly interrupted, distracted or faced with the prospect of dividing my attention between my ums and a potential D which is the same as saying I have baggage.

These are only the first two examples that came to mind, but I'm sure there are others.  A red flag is considered a warning.  What is it a warning of?  I would say in many cases its a warning that the other person has some baggage.  To the extent that this is the case, you're position is contradictory.






defiantbadgirl -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 4:22:32 PM)

I know many men who have baggage as well, but few like to call it that or even think about it. Many (not all) are too busy avoiding possible baggage others may or may not take out on them. Of course men get hurt by women. Otherwise they wouldn't have said baggage. I sympathize with them just like I do with women who have been hurt. I'm also glad they have far less chance of being seen as damaged goods and avoided. Both women and men are hurt by the opposite sex (unless they prefer the same sex). Women as a general rule don't have the "warning, possible baggage, assume the worst, avoid at all costs" mentality toward men, so men shouldn't have that attitude toward women.



ServeMeInVA -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 4:29:40 PM)

Everyone over 17 normally has baggage.
It is best to learn what the baggage is, as soon as possible.
Then I can decide if their baggage is a deal breaker for me.
There is a lot of baggage I can deal with, and some I will not deal with.
The key is finding out what the baggage is, quickly and before you become
emotionally involved.



MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 4:42:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrSkyWoIf

I agree this poster has a self esteem problem but bashing her will not help the matter... Then your statement "Maybe because the 'person' trying to help is nothing more than a talking dick" Makes the accusation that anyone who post a question you do not agree with is little more then a talking Dick... Sounds to me like maybe you have a little baggage of your own to deal with......


Thanks for sticking up for me. I am curious to know why I appear to have a self esteem problem. I'm a college student who has taken courses in Psychology, Sociology, and Social Work. In these classes, self esteem was discussed at. There were also self esteem evaluations. I never scored abnormally low or extremely high in self esteem. I was always in the average range. Considering this, plus the fact that not one man who has gotten to know me has thought I took anything out on him, I must conclude that the only men who think I have baggage are those who ASSUME and never get to know me.


I am sorry my post was not meant to offend you My statement would have been more accurate if I had said "the poster appears to have a self esteem problem" My statement was based on your continued insistence that Doms are not willing to be with a submissive with baggage. To me this made it sound as if you had given up because you have baggage. I related this to an self esteem issue. I should not have assumed you had one based on a post as I do not know you as a person.



toservez -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 4:42:39 PM)

Every one has baggage men and women and dominants and submissives.

It is not the baggage to avoid or run from but if the person’s baggage is too out front of the person. Basically, if the person makes their baggage a controlling issue to another person in how a relationship is to take place.

Let’s take being a victim of cheating. A man who tells a woman he only has a cell phone might perk up the ears of the woman but if that is all she has as a clue the man might be married then that is her issue not his.

A man who wants a submissive to always call where they are and not let their woman talk to another man in almost all situations because at one time they were a victim of cheating is letting their baggage interfere with the relationship.

I agree Darcyandthedark that this portrayal of woman are victims and men are the abusers is just wrong and the constant getting into this life of dominant equals strong and does not need to be careful or protect themselves and woman submissive is weak and needs to be super duper protective just does a flat out disservice to both men and women and this lifestyle.

We all have baggage the key is how we deal with it and let it affect us and our relationships.



MstrSkyWoIf -> RE: baggage (8/29/2007 4:44:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

[sm=banghead.gif]


Don't do that it looks like it hurts "OUCH" and not in a good way



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