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RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 7:56:50 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

I trust him implicitly but that doesn't mean I think he's a mindreader. He isn't going to know from looking at me that the third wind of the rope on my upper left thigh is pinching slightly. Or that I'm going to sneeze if he doesn't get the hair caught in the blindfold to stop tickling my nose. Or that I think I'm coming down with a cold and really need to not have my head off the side of the bed because it will start up my vertigo which only comes on with sinus problems.

So I tell him, or use a gesture so he will remove the gag and then tell him. And then he fixes the problem and we go on if we can and stop if we can't. Here it just means there's a problem.

Totally understand the use of a safe word in that way. For me though i just say my restraints are too tight etc. Again personal choice of how we deal with those kind of things.

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Post #: 21

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 8:16:00 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

I guess it boils down for me to the question 'If you trust your partner 100% why do you need limits / safewords?'
Does this not show a lack of trust?

Hardly. If anything, limits are a prerequisite to trust.

Think about it. If you say you trust him not to go "too far," you necessarily must define where "too far" it. "Too Far" is on the other side of whatever limits you possess. If you have no limits, "too far" does not exist. The place you trust him not to go does not exist, how much trust is really necessary?

Limits give form (and therefore meaning) to the bond of trust.

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Post #: 22

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 8:28:04 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I guess it boils down for me to the question 'If you trust your partner 100% why do you need limits / safewords?'
Does this not show a lack of trust?

Hardly. If anything, limits are a prerequisite to trust.

Think about it. If you say you trust him not to go "too far," you necessarily must define where "too far" it. "Too Far" is on the other side of whatever limits you possess. If you have no limits, "too far" does not exist. The place you trust him not to go does not exist, how much trust is really necessary?

Limits give form (and therefore meaning) to the bond of trust.

At this moment as i have said in other threads i have no idea where too far is for me, hence i have no limits. It does not scare me how far i will go in this lifestyle and whilst on the heavy side i cannot say right now that i would never be willing to die for Sir.
Limits give form and therefore meaning to the bond of trust.
Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Post #: 23

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 8:40:26 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
At this moment as i have said in other threads i have no idea where too far is for me, hence i have no limits. It does not scare me how far i will go in this lifestyle and whilst on the heavy side i cannot say right now that i would never be willing to die for Sir.
Limits give form and therefore meaning to the bond of trust.
Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.

Trust is a funny thing. We only give it to people who can hurt us.

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Post #: 24

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 8:42:39 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Limits give form (and therefore meaning) to the bond of trust.

Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.

I suggest the "limits" you speak of would be the ones imposed by you.

The "limits" imposed by your master would be a different story?

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Or there was so much living left to do?

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Post #: 25

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 8:43:44 AM

UR2Badored

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Joined: 2/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

No its not about whether you have limits or not, its about how trusting someone 100% can equate to placing limits.
Nothing wrong with anyones thinking. Im having trouble with my thinking at present, that is why i posted this. Im trying not to judge but i clearly am and want to change that.

I am having trouble seeing the difference between trying not to judge and recognizing that not all people will define "no limits" as you.......simple as that. Is it inconceivable that an ordinary housewife with no knowledge of D/s could possibly have less limits than a person who claims they are a "no limits" slave?......It is a matter of perspectives, definitions, and personal will. And yes, some who takes the very literal sense of the meaning of "no limits" will think it is a hyperbole, period. You only can convince yourself what you believe and make decisions for you accordingly. For some people, believe it or not, anything consensual rules out a limit; therefore, "no limits" would not be applicable in that instance ie if we both agree to this, there is no need for a limit to be in play.

The very argument of trust for some determines that there is no need for limits. Now, some will see that is not being in a no limits relationships. Others will be determined that this will indeed indicate a relationship of no limits. Still others might be on the fence.

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/19/2007 9:43:21 AM >

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Post #: 26

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 8:47:00 AM

eyesopened

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All i know is when i scream "cramp!!" it means i have a cramp.

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Post #: 27

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:03:20 AM

breatheasone

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I guess it boils down for me to the question 'If you trust your partner 100% why do you need limits / safewords?'
Does this not show a lack of trust?

Hardly. If anything, limits are a prerequisite to trust.

Think about it. If you say you trust him not to go "too far," you necessarily must define where "too far" it. "Too Far" is on the other side of whatever limits you possess. If you have no limits, "too far" does not exist. The place you trust him not to go does not exist, how much trust is really necessary?

Limits give form (and therefore meaning) to the bond of trust.

At this moment as i have said in other threads i have no idea where too far is for me, hence i have no limits. It does not scare me how far i will go in this lifestyle and whilst on the heavy side i cannot say right now that i would never be willing to die for Sir.
Limits give form and therefore meaning to the bond of trust.
Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.

I respectfully disagee with the statement you made that i highlighted in red...for me personally

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Post #: 28

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:07:07 AM

chellekitty

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Joined: 3/27/2005
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in this instance....i's like to use this example...
i like to play with pain...i like play with pain with people i am not in a relationship with...at one point i was on the floor, screaming from the pain and then it stopped and the first words out of my mouth were "why did you stop"....he was just moving to another part of my body....i was soon screaming again....
he had no way of "knowing me" or "knowing how to read me" or any of those other nice things that come with being in a relationship with someone...yes i had a safe word....no, i never forgot it...no, i never felt it necessary to use it...i fondly remember the weekend...
on the other hand...(i'll try to keep it to just two hands)...there is this example...
i have been playing for i guess around 2 years with the matriarch of my leather family...she knows me, she knows how to read me, she can see when to move to a different area of the body, she knows when she needs to back off, she knows when i need to cum...she knows me...and she knew last night i needed to be beat on...but i was not in a place, mentally, where if my body decided to act funky and say "bad pain" for whatever reason, that i would say my safe word...so i told her that...and i got a "very good girl" for being aware of it and telling her...
and at this point i don't think i really answered the OP's question....because i am not in a long term personal romantic relationship at this time...
i dunno...maybe this will: just because you don't define or state something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist....was that enough negatives? lol...i can't figure out a better way to put it so i am just gonna shut up at this point...Rover said it better anyway....

hope i helped in anyway
chelle

ps....being non-judgemental or tolerant does not make you any better....we all judge and are intolerant in one area or another...go ahead...ask me, i will find something...

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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

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Post #: 29

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:10:36 AM

Driver1961

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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He dips His lid to all;

Yes Bob and to the others, you fail to understand missturbation. She is concerned about her 'judgementalism' on others and is trying to come to terms with understanding others (including yourselves). Putting in one liners based upon what your experiences are without explaining your perspectives (which she has tried of herself) offer no insight to her. In doing so - you only judge her. I refer you to my previous post here.

Warm regards Driver.

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Post #: 30

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:11:36 AM

SolarAndViolet

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I guess it boils down for me to the question 'If you trust your partner 100% why do you need limits / safewords?'
Does this not show a lack of trust?

Hardly. If anything, limits are a prerequisite to trust.

Think about it. If you say you trust him not to go "too far," you necessarily must define where "too far" it. "Too Far" is on the other side of whatever limits you possess. If you have no limits, "too far" does not exist. The place you trust him not to go does not exist, how much trust is really necessary?

Limits give form (and therefore meaning) to the bond of trust.

At this moment as i have said in other threads i have no idea where too far is for me, hence i have no limits. It does not scare me how far i will go in this lifestyle and whilst on the heavy side i cannot say right now that i would never be willing to die for Sir.
Limits give form and therefore meaning to the bond of trust.
Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.[/b]

See... I have a problem here with your statements misstrubation. I don't mean to offend you, but from what you've said here, makes me believe that you will not be capable of understanding what you are trying so hard to understand. You keep applying trust and limits to your 'no-limits' preference instead of looking from the perspective of other possible situations. Just how it looks to me, and I hope that it's not so.

I totally agree with Celticlord here.

You state that you don't know where your limits lie and therefore have none. That's all fine, for you. Others know their preferences and limits and state them clearly from the start. If their Dom wouldn't like the limits, I doubt they'd be together. So it's a mutually agreed set of limits (and by the way, Doms have those too) For those who do -know- their limits, it doesn't mean they do not trust their Dom. We are all humans, and all have preferences in life, as well as lifestyle. I trust my Sir completely and I can say it again and again. I trust him to do all that he does and more and I trust him to not go into things we both agreed on.

As far as safewords, several people have stated and I agree. (And we had that conversation just last night) My Sir is not 100% perfect. As successful as he's always been to notice the right time to stop, he is human and will make mistakes. Therefore, we agree on a safeword (which I've used may be just once or twice) that will be there in case he misses something. I trust him to stop when I use it.

As much as you are baffled by the limits and safewords that you see as stepping in a way of total trust. I'm equally confused how is it that they can be contradictory, when they are tools and, as Celticlord said, something that gives form to the trust that is built between two people.

I hope you'll get what you need from this thread.

'violet'

< Message edited by SolarAndViolet -- 9/19/2007 9:13:09 AM >

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Post #: 31

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:16:45 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.

ok...i know people will say, but thats common sensem after i say it...but...i am gonna say it anyway...cause its my day to do this

i have this crazy limit...in order to live, i must remain breathing...i can only stop for a maximum of like 45 seconds on my own...maybe a minute and a half with "help" but....after if i push past my limit and pass out, my body will resume breathing all on its own....its a natural survival instinct that has absolutely nothing to do with trust or love or power exchange or the price of gold....

i have limits of what i can do...these are non-negotiable...
i have limits of what i am willing to do...with certain people, after a long period of time..they may go away...
i have limits of what i am able to do...this is more limited to time and location and state of my body and a combonation of the previous two...

hmmmm is this a better answer?

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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

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Post #: 32

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:19:53 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.

ok...i know people will say, but thats common sensem after i say it...but...i am gonna say it anyway...cause its my day to do this

i have this crazy limit...in order to live, i must remain breathing...i can only stop for a maximum of like 45 seconds on my own...maybe a minute and a half with "help" but....after if i push past my limit and pass out, my body will resume breathing all on its own....its a natural survival instinct that has absolutely nothing to do with trust or love or power exchange or the price of gold....

i have limits of what i can do...these are non-negotiable...
i have limits of what i am willing to do...with certain people, after a long period of time..they may go away...
i have limits of what i am able to do...this is more limited to time and location and state of my body and a combonation of the previous two...

hmmmm is this a better answer?

What I am reading, is that misst doesn't use safewords when something goes wrong. She simply states the actual problem.
Instead of 'STOP' she says 'Master the restraints are too tight!'
In regards to the trust bit, I think I understand. If I had to use a code word for help wouldn't that be like saying I could not say 'Master bad pain please stop'.
I don't have a safeword with my dom, I just tell him whats going on/going wrong.

< Message edited by camille65 -- 9/19/2007 9:22:03 AM >

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Post #: 33

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:20:16 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.

Missturbation, a question:

How far does your master trust you?

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Post #: 34

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:20:50 AM

Bobkgin

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Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Driver1961

He dips His lid to all;

Yes Bob and to the others, you fail to understand missturbation. She is concerned about her 'judgementalism' on others and is trying to come to terms with understanding others (including yourselves). Putting in one liners based upon what your experiences are without explaining your perspectives (which she has tried of herself) offer no insight to her. In doing so - you only judge her. I refer you to my previous post here.

Warm regards Driver.

I'm well-represented on the "No Limits: How far would you go?" thread, Driver. I don't need to repeat things here.

My suggestion and question was for clarification purposes only. There are two sets of limits that can be imposed: the master's and the slave's. Speaking generically of "limits" does not indicate whose limits are being discussed.

Thus, my question.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Driver1961)

Post #: 35

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:25:34 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

What I am reading, is that misst doesn't use safewords when something goes wrong. She simply states the actual problem.
Instead of 'STOP' she says 'Master the restraints are too tight!'
In regards to the trust bit, I think I understand. If I had to use a code word for help wouldn't that be like saying I could not say 'Master bad pain please stop'.
I don't have a safeword with my dom, I just tell him whats going on/going wrong.

That's how my wife and I did it.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 36

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:31:36 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

To me, by the time that one can call someone ‘my Sir’ or ‘my Master’…it is likely they can also let go of limits.

In my opinion, those who say they have no limits when playing casually with any Tom, Dick, or Mary, are just plain nuts…and perhaps do not really understand what they are really saying. I bet when push comes to shove; plenty would cry RED before some things even got started!

I would imagine many people have limits at first, and as the relationship grows and solidifies…they let go of those limits. Not unlike yourself… and myself.

Having said all that…the reason I can say I do not have safe-words with ‘So and So’…is because I KNOW him that well and he knows ME that well. We have exchanged information and beliefs and talked extensively regarding wants, desires and things we do not like. I just would not CALL someone ‘my Sir’ if he was into <add the squick of your choice>, if I wasn’t into it as well. I don't call someone 'my Sir', if we are not well-matched.

That is not to say, I don’t like having my limits pushed from time to time; I do. Growth is always a good thing, in my book. Still, Dominants are not mind readers. Accidents happen from time to time.

I was playing with a trusted friend once, one with whom I do not consider limiting, and I passed out only to come-to feeling like I was gonna puke in my leather hood. I could not even THINK of a safeword…and just cried “…get it off, get it off!” Of course, he did and escorted me to the bathroom where I calmed down. That he took me right back to the cross and continued what he was doing just made it the icing on the cake! LOL

I like that he knows me well enough to know what I can take, how far to push…and still listens to me when an emergency comes up. Yup, I trust him and do not try to limit what he might do to me.

beverly

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Post #: 37

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:33:55 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

What I am reading, is that misst doesn't use safewords when something goes wrong. She simply states the actual problem.
Instead of 'STOP' she says 'Master the restraints are too tight!'
In regards to the trust bit, I think I understand. If I had to use a code word for help wouldn't that be like saying I could not say 'Master bad pain please stop'.
I don't have a safeword with my dom, I just tell him whats going on/going wrong.

nods...that works for some people...wouldn't work for me because that would bring me out of my head space so much that i might as well end the scene....but i use progressive safe words...green, yellow and red....and she was asking what other people did, not what should she do...i stated what i did, not suggestions for what she should do...thanks for the clarification, but it was not necessary....

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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 38

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:35:30 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

wouldn't work for me because that would bring me out of my head space so much that i might as well end the scene....but i use progressive safe words...green, yellow and red....

Well then tell me - how do you manage to use "green, yellow, and red" without disturbing your "head space"? Are those words part of your "space"?

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 39

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! - 9/19/2007 9:37:55 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust.

That makes no sense to me. You won't die for him - that is a limit. I won't let Valyraen bite into my juglar with his fangs - that is a limit.

Limits, in my opinion, have very little to do with trust. They are simply what you will and will not do.

_____________________________

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It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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Post #: 40

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