RE: PETA - The REAL killers

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grlneedstolearn -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 2:38:52 PM)
This is where seeing all sides comes in handy. So what are we talking here ? When you take a pet (ex-pet I guess) to the local APL or animal shelter, it is only kept so long, a matter of days. If not adopted it is euthenised. Doesn't matter how happy or healthy it is. Not neccessarily true. i worked for an animal shelter, the humane society, and every animal stays in their shelter until they are adopted out or moved to another shelter. The humane society does not euthanize animals just because they are full to capacity. There was one dog that i especially loved working with who was there for 2 years healthy 4 year old mix. Most beautiful dog i've seen. She got adopted when i left but i will still always go back and play with both the cats and dogs in between work and school.

Owner59 -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 7:17:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: grlneedstolearn This is where seeing all sides comes in handy. So what are we talking here ? When you take a pet (ex-pet I guess) to the local APL or animal shelter, it is only kept so long, a matter of days. If not adopted it is euthenised. Doesn't matter how happy or healthy it is. Not neccessarily true. i worked for an animal shelter, the humane society, and every animal stays in their shelter until they are adopted out or moved to another shelter. The humane society does not euthanize animals just because they are full to capacity. There was one dog that i especially loved working with who was there for 2 years healthy 4 year old mix. Most beautiful dog i've seen. She got adopted when i left but i will still always go back and play with both the cats and dogs in between work and school. I love the success stories,I have a rescue myself,that was used as a "bait"dog(in training fighting dogs).His body is covered by the scars,from the bite wounds he got. He`s a sweet dog,quiet and friendly to people and other dogs. Hearing your tale is uplifting. Success stories are great.I love to hear them and want to create as many success stories as possible. There are litterally millions of success stories,like my Buster,and like your pup. But ,there are anywhere from 4 to 10 million + dogs and cats,that DON`T get placed,in spite of everyone`s efforts.That is the truth,the awful truth and just can`t be denied.Millions and millions of unwanted dogs,with no where to go,and little money to keep them. Maybe not where you live,but dogs are born and live in every part of America,and in the poorest parts,there are more unwanted pups and less money to care for them. The ugly truth is that won`t stop,until we get them all placed,or lower the number born( through sterilization).Fuzzy math doesn`t work with living things. If one wants to play make pretend,and believe that the ugly reality ,isn`t there,fine. The dogs are going to keep coming and coming,no matter what. If I could divert a few billion from the defense budget to care for these animals,I`d do it in a snap.Just let me.Now that, sounds radical. But I`m not in make-pretend land(it would be nice though).I know all to well that many, many healthy,lovely dogs are going to be snuffed out,because there`s no one there for them.Because 10 million dogs are going to show up next year,the current batch has to get shuffled out the door,one way,or the other. So far,anyone`s complaints about PETA have been valid,but over legal things. They are as militant as they come.So what? I really don`t care if they have a campaign the make people feel guilty about eating chickens or fish.Tough.I don`t care if they get people to be vegetarians,or protest.Illegal stuff,of course I don`t want.If they break the law,bust`m. If you have an issue with their ad campaigns,make your own.Just don`t make it a complete distortion,like PETAKILLSANIMALS.com.Because you`ll get caught and look foolish,and will only shot yourself in the foot. The only thing I have an issue with is being lied to.This thread started w/ PETAKILLSANIMALS.com.What ever anyone says,that page and everything on it is a lie,misrepresentation, distortion or misleading.Very sophisticated twisting of facts,to make PETA look bad. One example ,is the infamous tax record,showing the purchase of the infamous walk-in freezer. So fuck`n what?So they put the dead animals in the freezer.What`s the big deal? And what`s so sinister about that?Is there something illegal about freezing them,before they`re desposed of? I also read into the PETAKILLSANIMALS.com, a bit. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) loves to point the finger at others, when they should be looking at their own record of killing more than 90% of the animals left in their care. According to government records PETA has killed more than 14,400 animals since 1998. That`s around 1500 animals a year. ?!?!?!?! There`s close to ten fucking million killed every year,just in the US!Where`s the disconnect here? What makes PETA so sinister,for euthanizing 14,400 dogs and cats,in all most ten years?!Especially in light of the fact that anywhere from 36 million to over 90 million dogs and cats are put down,all over America,in that same ten years. Where`s the outrage about that? For those that need it spelled out,that`s PETA`s 14,400,to 90 million nation-wide,in that same time. When they should be looking at their own record of killing more than 90% of the animals left in their care. Just look at that statement from PETAKILLSANIMALS.com. Look how dubious it is. Where did they get that 90% number? Does that cover and take into account, the animals PETA euthanized on behalf of other shelters? The shelters in poor areas of the US,where instead of being beaten to death,or shot with a 22,or drowned,or gassed w/ car exhaust,etc.,PETA would provide the humane death that all unwanted animals deserve.The alternative is the cruel death,that I`ve illustrated already. That website is a farce,and it makes me wonder what else is said about PETA,that`s also a farce.And every anti-peta site I`ve hit,looks just as smelly. I smell a rat,and a room full of dupes.

AquaticSub -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 7:32:11 PM)
So why ever send money to PETA? SCPA does a better job, has several no-kill shelters and in some places are actually affliated with local law enforcement to actually stop the preventation of cruelty to animals and arrest those who do. And, amazingly, they accomplish this without being hyprocrites, without lying and associating with firebombers, without threatening people and without trying to kill animals in zoos. Give your support to the SCPA and other fanastic organizations who don't get enough support. You seem to think PETA is the only one out there doing anything. They aren't. The other, quieter, groups are doing a lot more and actually deserve the praise.

Action -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 7:43:56 PM)
Lets not get our pantys in a twist Owner59 lol

Owner59 -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:04:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub So why ever send money to PETA? SCPA does a better job, has several no-kill shelters and in some places are actually affliated with local law enforcement to actually stop the preventation of cruelty to animals and arrest those who do. And, amazingly, they accomplish this without being hyprocrites, without lying and associating with firebombers, without threatening people and without trying to kill animals in zoos. Give your support to the SCPA and other fanastic organizations who don't get enough support. You seem to think PETA is the only one out there doing anything. They aren't. The other, quieter, groups are doing a lot more and actually deserve the praise. Look sweetheart,I`ve been rescuing dogs for close to twenty years.I know about the good people out there doing the hard work.My next girl/slave will be on the same page as me.I`ve gone broke trying to do more than I should have.I`ll do this till I`m dead. THIS IS ABOUT THE DOGS.That`s my focus and why I don`t have a problem w/ PETA. The people putting peta down,have no interest in saving dogs at all.None. Their issues w/ PETA,are about other,non-dog related problems.Which is totally valid.Go after PETA for anything they do,that pisses you off.Meat people,zoo people,fur people,hunters,puppy mill people,Medical research people,etc. Have at them,just do it with integrity. I was a vegetarian for a decade and rarely eat meat even today (my dog makes up for that.lol).I know about how horribly our food-stock animals are treated.The drugs and hormones needed to keep them healthy enough to sell,and the bad living conditions that make them sick in the 1st place,is enough to give meat up. If PETA wants to stop that,so what?If they do it in outrageous ways,so what?You don`t want your kids reading their comics,don`t let them. A hero of mine,is that "hawt" blond on Animal Cops.Man! She`s put together.<pauses>ok.You`re right,there`s many outfits to give to.Give to the SPCA,a lot.Give to the shelter in your town.Bring old towels and blankets to your local shelter,and foam pads and cushions(if you have some)Give food and toys for them to chew.Better yet,give time.There`s plenty of work to do,and you might get a fee dog out of the deal ; ) If you don`t want to give to peta,don`t.Just don`t be duped by there many enimies,who are use the poor dogs as pawns.

Owner59 -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:05:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Action Lets not get our pantys in a twist Owner59 lol When it comes to dogs,I`ll do that very thing,thank you very much. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m11.gif[/image]

Real0ne -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:08:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 But ,there are anywhere from 4 to 10 million + dogs and cats,that DON`T get placed,in spite of everyone`s efforts. whats the big deal just send em to china they would be more than happy to have them!

iammachine -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:11:40 PM)
quote: Very sophisticated twisting of facts,to make PETA look bad. No one here is twisting facts, not do they need to. PETA does a fine job of making themselves look bad. quote: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) loves to point the finger at others, when they should be looking at their own record of killing more than 90% of the animals left in their care. That`s around 1500 animals a year. ?!?!?!?! There`s close to ten fucking million killed every year,just in the US!Where`s the disconnect here? That's what I want to know. Where's your disconnect? You can't compare a percentage with a hard number. PETA euthanizes fewer animals because they take in fewer animals. See my OP for the figures. 6.7% of PETA "rescues" live, 51.4% of state-run (which does not take into account privately run shelters, many of which are no-kill) shelter animals live. The number of animals that a state run shelter places exceeds the total number of animals that PETA actually places. quote: The shelters in poor areas of the US,where instead of being beaten to death,or shot with a 22,or drowned,or gassed w/ car exhaust,etc.,PETA would provide the humane death that all unwanted animals deserve.The alternative is the cruel death,that I`ve illustrated already. That website is a farce,and it makes me wonder what else is said about PETA,that`s also a farce.And every anti-peta site I`ve hit,looks just as smelly. Show us stats. Show us verifiable accounts that this is a common practice, that the kind of atrocities you speak of are as systematic as you say they are. Surely, if the problem is consistent, there will be documentation. Put your money where your mouth is, or put away your mouth. As for all of the anti-PETA sites looking smelly to you, I am rather suspicious that it is because of your politics. You don't like the groups that are presenting the information about PETA, therefore you choose to write off the data without even doing any of your own homework. That's a logical fallacy, just like your arguments have no basis in logic, and you continuously rely on appealing to people's emotions. It ain't workin', dude. For someone that claims they aren't a militant or a PETA supporter, you're certainly pooring a ton of energy into defending them.

Owner59 -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:13:36 PM)
China`s the worst! Dog and cat fur coats, are all the rage there.We see pets,they see food. FYI,any item out of China that contains brushes,fur,bristles,etc,is most likely gotten from dogs and cats. Beware.

iammachine -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:16:37 PM)
quote: The people putting peta down,have no interest in saving dogs at all.None. That's funny, I love all animals. The world isn't black and white, you can be anti PETA and pro animal welfare. Hell, you can be anti PETA and pro animal rights even. quote: If PETA wants to stop that,so what?If they do it in outrageous ways,so what? Do you have any concept of right and wrong, man? Seriously. Clearly, your understanding of ethics is as faulty as the people for "ethical" treatment of animals. You can't claim the moral high ground, when your own behaviour is unethical.

Owner59 -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:34:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iammachine quote: Very sophisticated twisting of facts,to make PETA look bad. No one here is twisting facts, not do they need to. PETA does a fine job of making themselves look bad. quote: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) loves to point the finger at others, when they should be looking at their own record of killing more than 90% of the animals left in their care. That`s around 1500 animals a year. ?!?!?!?! There`s close to ten fucking million killed every year,just in the US!Where`s the disconnect here? That's what I want to know. Where's your disconnect? You can't compare a percentage with a hard number. PETA euthanizes fewer animals because they take in fewer animals. See my OP for the figures. 6.7% of PETA "rescues" live, 51.4% of state-run (which does not take into account privately run shelters, many of which are no-kill) shelter animals live. The number of animals that a state run shelter places exceeds the total number of animals that PETA actually places. quote: The shelters in poor areas of the US,where instead of being beaten to death,or shot with a 22,or drowned,or gassed w/ car exhaust,etc.,PETA would provide the humane death that all unwanted animals deserve.The alternative is the cruel death,that I`ve illustrated already. That website is a farce,and it makes me wonder what else is said about PETA,that`s also a farce.And every anti-peta site I`ve hit,looks just as smelly. Show us stats. Show us verifiable accounts that this is a common practice, that the kind of atrocities you speak of are as systematic as you say they are. Surely, if the problem is consistent, there will be documentation. Put your money where your mouth is, or put away your mouth. As for all of the anti-PETA sites looking smelly to you, I am rather suspicious that it is because of your politics. You don't like the groups that are presenting the information about PETA, therefore you choose to write off the data without even doing any of your own homework. That's a logical fallacy, just like your arguments have no basis in logic, and you continuously rely on appealing to people's emotions. It ain't workin', dude. For someone that claims they aren't a militant or a PETA supporter, you're certainly pooring a ton of energy into defending them. From your OP, So, are you for animal welfare, or are you for propaganda? I`m for animal welfare,and against propaganda,...duhh. Where did you get those stats?I didn`t see a source or link. It looked like something you got from an article and posted here.It that true,and where did you get that info from.What artical(s)or site? And you`re all over the place.So what is they took in 25 mil.?They do more then dog and cat rescues,much, much more.They can do what they want with their money. I don`t need to show a stat,to know myself that someone is lying to me.The website PETAKILLSANIMALS.com is ridiculous and transparent,just on their face. I see a biased mind(s) here that won`t open.I really doubt if it`s because of the love of dogs,but rather a hate of PETA. That`s ok,you`re free to feel any way you want.That`s why there`s chocolate and vanilla. You can have the vanilla.

Action -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:48:15 PM)
owner59 I can probably say for myself and many others here that your forcing your own "ethics" and life on everyone else in this thread. -I- started this thread to raise awareness of not just the peta problem but the animal problem in this country all togeather. And I would ask you to move on since your doing nothing but insulting other decent animal loving people here with how your posting. Where are your facts and links? 4-10 million is a VERY wide margin. And we arn't ignoring that it happens, but trying to lower that number in the best way we can. Raising awareness and pointing out what we can each do. Become a Foster home Donate to the right people Don't donate to the wrong people Nueter your pets Be responsible as a breeder Point out to your friends and family if they want pets to ignore pet stores and go for a shelter. I myself have sheltered 4 race track greyhounds, an abused iguana, a family of cats, an abused bulldog, a rottie left in a ditch, and many more countless pets in my home that I tend to vastly. So if your entire argument is that your better and your idealogies are better then anyone else's here, please move on. No one is the "better" pet lover here. Its a discussion to raise awareness and your own tactics arn't appreciated. -<3

Owner59 -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:48:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iammachine quote: Very sophisticated twisting of facts,to make PETA look bad. No one here is twisting facts, not do they need to. PETA does a fine job of making themselves look bad. quote: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) loves to point the finger at others, when they should be looking at their own record of killing more than 90% of the animals left in their care. That`s around 1500 animals a year. ?!?!?!?! There`s close to ten fucking million killed every year,just in the US!Where`s the disconnect here? That's what I want to know. Where's your disconnect? You can't compare a percentage with a hard number. PETA euthanizes fewer animals because they take in fewer animals. See my OP for the figures. 6.7% of PETA "rescues" live, 51.4% of state-run (which does not take into account privately run shelters, many of which are no-kill) shelter animals live. The number of animals that a state run shelter places exceeds the total number of animals that PETA actually places. quote: The shelters in poor areas of the US,where instead of being beaten to death,or shot with a 22,or drowned,or gassed w/ car exhaust,etc.,PETA would provide the humane death that all unwanted animals deserve.The alternative is the cruel death,that I`ve illustrated already. That website is a farce,and it makes me wonder what else is said about PETA,that`s also a farce.And every anti-peta site I`ve hit,looks just as smelly. Show us stats. Show us verifiable accounts that this is a common practice, that the kind of atrocities you speak of are as systematic as you say they are. Surely, if the problem is consistent, there will be documentation. Put your money where your mouth is, or put away your mouth. As for all of the anti-PETA sites looking smelly to you, I am rather suspicious that it is because of your politics. You don't like the groups that are presenting the information about PETA, therefore you choose to write off the data without even doing any of your own homework. That's a logical fallacy, just like your arguments have no basis in logic, and you continuously rely on appealing to people's emotions. It ain't workin', dude. For someone that claims they aren't a militant or a PETA supporter, you're certainly pooring a ton of energy into defending them. It ain't workin', dude. For someone that claims they aren't a militant or a PETA supporter, you're certainly pooring a ton of energy into defending them. I`m just warming up,"honey bunch". I don`t really care about PETA,one way or the other>I have nothing invested. Truth, is what I`m defending.I why I responded to this thread,which is about a group of payed liars. I know Peta lies,yadda yadda.I heard it.Yawn.Save your breath. They save dogs,so I support them. This dubious scenario that some have painted,making PETA seem like devil worshipers,is as ridiculous as the Salem Witch Trails. You`ve been duped. I don`t believe one word of that story.

iammachine -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:55:02 PM)
quote: I don`t need to show a stat,to know myself that someone is lying to me.The website PETAKILLSANIMALS.com is ridiculous and transparent,just on their face. I see a biased mind(s) here that won`t open.I really doubt if it`s because of the love of dogs,but rather a hate of PETA. That`s ok,you`re free to feel any way you want.That`s why there`s chocolate and vanilla. You can have the vanilla. So, in other words, you take how you feel about something, and assume that is proof enough. To you it might be, but to anyone that actually thinks rationally, that isn't evidence. People have given you sources, which, you have turned a blind eye to. All the same, you demand sources, yet you refuse to support your own statements. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, bucko. Why should I be subject to providing things that you refuse to provide yourself, and when presented with verified information and sources, you simply dismiss? I'll have my source post references when you subsantiate your own statements (I had a friend of mine thats a DVM dig up stats for me, since that's kind of his field, and he has stronger recources than I do to get said information reliably). Just because I think your argument is completely ridiculous and ineffective does not mean that I have a closed mind. I'm opened minded, but I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to take someone for their word when they clearly have no interest in supporting their statements, and I'm up to my knees in information that says otherwise. You clearly have issues with reading comprehension. What does 25 million have to do with anything? The point is, they have the resources to actually help the animals that they take in, yet they are completely ineffective at handling the animals in their care as is apparent by the discrepancy in placement stats. I like your little jab there, it exemplifies your ability to behave maturely quite well.You can't win with absent logic, so you're going to continue to rely on appealing to emotions by slinging insults. Your forum-fu is strong. [:-] I agree with Najak, you have a flavor, and it's fruitcake. Until you hang up the knee-jerking, propaganda and sensationalism and start actually substantiating your claims, I'm going to remain with the impression that there is a bridge missing it's troll, and refrain from feeding him.

Action -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 8:59:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iammachine quote: I don`t need to show a stat,to know myself that someone is lying to me.The website PETAKILLSANIMALS.com is ridiculous and transparent,just on their face. I see a biased mind(s) here that won`t open.I really doubt if it`s because of the love of dogs,but rather a hate of PETA. That`s ok,you`re free to feel any way you want.That`s why there`s chocolate and vanilla. You can have the vanilla. So, in other words, you take how you feel about something, and assume that is proof enough. To you it might be, but to anyone that actually thinks rationally, that isn't evidence. People have given you sources, which, you have turned a blind eye to. All the same, you demand sources, yet you refuse to support your own statements. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, bucko. Why should I be subject to providing things that you refuse to provide yourself, and when presented with verified information and sources, you simply dismiss? I'll have my source post references when you subsantiate your own statements (I had a friend of mine thats a DVM dig up stats for me, since that's kind of his field, and he has stronger recources than I do to get said information reliably). Just because I think your argument is completely ridiculous and ineffective does not mean that I have a closed mind. I'm opened minded, but I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to take someone for their word when they clearly have no interest in supporting their statements, and I'm up to my knees in information that says otherwise. You clearly have issues with reading comprehension. What does 25 million have to do with anything? The point is, they have the resources to actually help the animals that they take in, yet they are completely ineffective at handling the animals in their care as is apparent by the discrepancy in placement stats. I like your little jab there, it exemplifies your ability to behave maturely quite well.You can't win with absent logic, so you're going to continue to rely on appealing to emotions by slinging insults. Your forum-fu is strong. [:-] I agree with Najak, you have a flavor, and it's fruitcake. Until you hang up the knee-jerking, propaganda and sensationalism and start actually substantiating your claims, I'm going to remain with the impression that there is a bridge missing it's troll, and refrain from feeding him. claps VERY well said.

ModeratorEleven -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 9:04:05 PM)
OK folks, enough. XI

iammachine -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 9:10:26 PM)
quote: claps VERY well said. Sweet! I earned my first modsmacking too! flex

Owner59 -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 9:17:18 PM)
ORIGINAL: Action owner59 I can probably say for myself and many others here that your forcing your own "ethics" and life on everyone else in this thread. Speak for yourself ,sweetie.My mail box is full of supportive mail. And I`m just defending my position."Forcing my ethics"?lol please,........ -I- started this thread to raise awareness of not just the peta problem but the animal problem in this country all togeather. And I would ask you to move on since your doing nothing but insulting other decent animal loving people here with how your posting. Thank you,but no... Where are your facts and links? 4-10 million is a VERY wide margin. Numbers always very.That`s why you can`t get an exact count on Iraqi civilian deaths.The Lancet Journal gives one number,the UN another,and the Americans don`t even count.So what happens,is people describe the low number,and the high number.B/c nobody knows for sure. But if it`ll make ya feel better,we`ll go with the low number,of 4 million,as quoted by Bill Maher . 4 million a year, is still to many.And Peta has euthanized 1500 a year,and they`re the bad guys?!? Can you "square" that for me? And we arn't ignoring that it happens, but trying to lower that number in the best way we can. Raising awareness and pointing out what we can each do. Become a Foster home Donate to the right people Don't donate to the wrong people Nueter your pets Be responsible as a breeder Point out to your friends and family if they want pets to ignore pet stores and go for a shelter. I myself have sheltered 4 race track greyhounds, an abused iguana, a family of cats, an abused bulldog, a rottie left in a ditch, and many more countless pets in my home that I tend to vastly. So if your entire argument is that your better and your idealogies are better then anyone else's here, please move on. No one is the "better" pet lover here. Its a discussion to raise awareness and your own tactics arn't appreciated. My argument, is that the site you posted was fake, and full of lies. I`m insulted by that,especially b/c of the use of the dogs,as pawns.Disgusting.

Lumus -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 9:56:57 PM)
Having only briefly perused this thread, I would make a few cursory comments: The question is whether to believe that PETA is corrupt. They are a corporation, which makes them suspect by nature, same as any government. That's not meant to serve as rhetoric - it's fact. Powerful institutions which have a small membership, controlling a larger group, often draw suspicion, and it has been suggested that it is the duty of each citizen to question those who lord over them. Whether it is fact that PETA has earned these allegations is not possible to derive from one source; nor do I see Googling random sites any more likely to reveal a wondrous revelation. From a personal perspective, then, I would say this: I like animals. I'm not a fan of dogs. People are more important than animals; failure to recognize this is a direct comment on one's affiliation with their own species. Animals may be controlled through sterilization procedures, and we do not need their permission to do so, though it can be done humanely [parallel: I was not asked if I wanted to be circumsized, but I am, now, aren't I]. If we are to earn the moniker of "predominant species", then it is our duty to deal with the population of animals we created by protecting them, feeding them, sheltering them. We are already a part of the problem. We ought to be part of the solution. Euthanization has been justified for humans; the only argument that one might apply for animals is that "they have no choice". Granted. This is not about whether animals have choice; they do not have choice, as previously stated. Again, it may be done humanely; no one wants to pay the cost for it, however, most certainly not those other corporations who charge you for "diet" animal food, animal clothes, and all sorts of novelties we subject animals to for our whims. The cruelty began long ago, and still makes itself known, whenever I see a poodle forced to wear a hat. Before we trash our fellow humans in our enthusiastic dash for a soapbox, let's remember a few final points. Everyone's entitled to have an opinion. Everyone can justify their viewpoints if they try, truth plays the fool if one brings belief into the picture. Above all, however - everyone who argues reactively is more likely to lose their meaning in their own rambled string of words. :D

Owner59 -> RE: PETA - The REAL killers (9/25/2007 10:07:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lumus Having only briefly perused this thread, I would make a few cursory comments: The question is whether to believe that PETA is corrupt. They are a corporation, which makes them suspect by nature, same as any government. That's not meant to serve as rhetoric - it's fact. Powerful institutions which have a small membership, controlling a larger group, often draw suspicion, and it has been suggested that it is the duty of each citizen to question those who lord over them. Whether it is fact that PETA has earned these allegations is not possible to derive from one source; nor do I see Googling random sites any more likely to reveal a wondrous revelation. From a personal perspective, then, I would say this: I like animals. I'm not a fan of dogs. People are more important than animals; failure to recognize this is a direct comment on one's affiliation with their own species. Animals may be controlled through sterilization procedures, and we do not need their permission to do so, though it can be done humanely [parallel: I was not asked if I wanted to be circumsized, but I am, now, aren't I]. If we are to earn the moniker of "predominant species", then it is our duty to deal with the population of animals we created by protecting them, feeding them, sheltering them. We are already a part of the problem. We ought to be part of the solution. Euthanization has been justified for humans; the only argument that one might apply for animals is that "they have no choice". Granted. This is not about whether animals have choice; they do not have choice, as previously stated. Again, it may be done humanely; no one wants to pay the cost for it, however, most certainly not those other corporations who charge you for "diet" animal food, animal clothes, and all sorts of novelties we subject animals to for our whims. The cruelty began long ago, and still makes itself known, whenever I see a poodle forced to wear a hat. Before we trash our fellow humans in our enthusiastic dash for a soapbox, let's remember a few final points. Everyone's entitled to have an opinion. Everyone can justify their viewpoints if they try, truth plays the fool if one brings belief into the picture. Above all, however - everyone who argues reactively is more likely to lose their meaning in their own rambled string of words. :D Well said,brother.

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