RE: Difficulty finding a Dom?

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LaTigresse -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/6/2007 7:47:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: taralynn He doesn't want them broken or overly flawed... that way he can break them and fuck them up himself. Care to explain?

taralynn -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/6/2007 8:13:00 PM)
I apologize to Stephan. I spoke to someone who knows him very well and who insists he is a very honorable, good Man. So my perceptions were incorrect.

laurell3 -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/6/2007 8:27:57 PM)
I don't know him at all, but that's quite clear from his posts here including the one you responded to. l

Bobkgin -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/6/2007 10:42:56 PM)
As may be, he has yet to explain what changes he was considering other than weight when he wrote: quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann I am. I like beautiful women with beautiful bodies. I just also expect them to have hearts of gold. I'm also willing to help a woman to look her best. I find women with beautiful hearts, with encouragement and attention, eventually come to have beautiful bodies as well.

Sexynmentalinkc -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 6:52:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Caveat: I am not your typical male, lusting after a gorgeous body. I want the heart and mind of someone who has learned what matters most, and what lasts longest, is who we are inside, not what we look like. I am. I like beautiful women with beautiful bodies. I just also expect them to have hearts of gold. I'm also willing to help a woman to look her best. I find women with beautiful hearts, with encouragement and attention, eventually come to have beautiful bodies as well. Regards, Stephan quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann Why are you assuming that weight is the only issue I was addressing? Everyone has their virtues and flaws; some of us just happen to be flawed in a way that causes other flaws to well outbalance the virtues. I don't want someone who wants me to accept them broken, or overly flawed; I want someone who is as driven to improve their lives, as I am to improve mine. Not because I am overly flawed to begin with, but because those who do not push themselves to become better ultimately end up miserable. Stephan You're not alone. Yes - part of the issue is the raw physical attraction. But no small part of this is a desire to see her grow and better herself (for health, self-image, etc.). And yes...I'll openly admit to having selfish reasons. Attraction is important and it happens on many levels. Before people start branding me (or Stephan) be aware that I've played with / trained quite a few that were overweight or had some other traits that some would consider less-desirable. *For me, 'the cover' of the book is always* less important ultimately than the book itself. A cover can be changed, renovated and updated - the story itself will NEVER change. tips his hat - Mr. S**

HisCompletely -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:12:49 AM)
The heart of gold comes first..................there are a majority of women, especially older, who are far from "perfect" by image and body. That attraction, I do believe comes along first with the heart of gold and the attraction to that and his/her intelligence and mental connection. Just my thoughts. And the same goes for men also.

Bobkgin -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:25:15 AM)
To the audience at large (HisCompletely was just too quick for me [;)]): Not to be disrespectful, but aside from weight, people who advocate changes for the sake of physical beauty have been dancing around the question of what changes they are suggesting. And no one has explained how they would use "encouragement and attention" to convince someone that their beauty could be 'improved' upon through whatever methods are not being stated. Weight (too little or too much) I understand as this is a health issue. Are those advocating changes including such things as breast implants, lip enhancement, face lifts, tummy tucks, nose jobs, liposuction, botox treatments ...? Forgive me for saying this, but it sounds rather like Dr. Frankenstein trying to build himself a 'beauty queen' rather than putting time and effort into helping a woman to improve her self-esteem sufficiently that she sees her own beauty without the aid of cosmetic surgery. Somehow, saying "Honey, let's go see the doctor about improving your looks" would not seem to me to be consistent with a nurturing, supportive relationship. If you didn't like her looks to begin with, why did you pursue the relationship? Because she was willing to let you play Dr. Frankenstein on her body? What does that say about her self-esteem? Just a few honest questions, folks.

winterlight -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:34:51 AM)
I hate a society that makes us feel that we are not worthy of attention or getting to know as a human being. Look at magazines and what they put out. The tide is slowly turning. Don't get me wrong i have been a size 8 to size 4x. I have felt/seen both sides of the coin. Am i bitter..no i hope i don't sound it. I just see things at times for what they are. Why does size or looks make it a determination to get to know somebody? Why does my being a size 14, 16 even make me fall into the category of a big woman. How many of us are a size 14, 16 anymore? As a nation we are getting FATTER that is a given. I want somebody that likes me for me. I want somebody that won't go running at the sign of a problem and doesn't want to work something out. I would like somebody of substance and character. Will i find Him/Her. I have no idea...Time will tell and if i don't well so be it. I think we worry about the wrong things in life. There are other things to worry about and attend to. Just my humble opinion...

winterlight -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:41:48 AM)
i want what you have. two Doms. I cannot even find One. hmmmmm what does she have that i don't..? Actually i am quite happy for you..grins..

susie -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:45:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin To the audience at large (HisCompletely was just too quick for me [;)]): Not to be disrespectful, but aside from weight, people who advocate changes for the sake of physical beauty have been dancing around the question of what changes they are suggesting. And no one has explained how they would use "encouragement and attention" to convince someone that their beauty could be 'improved' upon through whatever methods are not being stated. Weight (too little or too much) I understand as this is a health issue. Are those advocating changes including such things as breast implants, lip enhancement, face lifts, tummy tucks, nose jobs, liposuction, botox treatments ...? Forgive me for saying this, but it sounds rather like Dr. Frankenstein trying to build himself a 'beauty queen' rather than putting time and effort into helping a woman to improve her self-esteem sufficiently that she sees her own beauty without the aid of cosmetic surgery. Somehow, saying "Honey, let's go see the doctor about improving your looks" would not seem to me to be consistent with a nurturing, supportive relationship. If you didn't like her looks to begin with, why did you pursue the relationship? Because she was willing to let you play Dr. Frankenstein on her body? What does that say about her self-esteem? Just a few honest questions, folks. Why do you assume that the changes have to be in the exteme of Cosmetic surgery? There are many other ways for a partner to influence the looks of the person they are with. I for instance have never in my life had long hair. It was something that my mother always frowned upon and so I grew up with the idea that I could never grow it. Now because of being with my Master and his encouragement I have grown it way past shoulder length. Had I not been with him I would have given up long before but he encouraged me to continue and I now have lovely thick long blonde hair. That is a change he brought about, one because he loves long hair and two, because he thought it would look good on me. So do not assume that people are talking about extremes like breast enhancement. Just because you cannot see other ways does not mean others can't.

Sexynmentalinkc -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:46:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Just a few honest questions, folks. You state that you don't want to be disrespectful, yet you paint those that 'like what they like' (myself and Stephan, it sounds like), etc. of being like Dr. Frankenstein's and more or less forcing their subs under the knife? I'll take your comments in the spirit I suspect you likely meant them - which was to further mature conversation. I do think, however, your characterization of our comments was unfair, presumptive and forced into a different context and direction than what I believe He was talking about... I don't "advocate" any of the items you listed. At the same time, neither do I take them off the table. Believe it or not, there ARE a number of female subs, etc. that do desire a Dom to further their...development. To better themselves in the area of physical beauty and/or attractiveness. When I've assisted subs in the past, it's been so partly due to my interests but partly at their behest as well. It's not all about us forcing anything on them but helping them reach goals they themselves have for their future. If that ends up including some or all of the options you stated, is that bad? More often than not, I wouldn't think the options you mention would be needed. I do consider this issue one that's a partnering toward an end. Not unlike what it might be for a sub to assist me in some kind of project or another. You just made the assumption, unfortunately, that any changes that might come about would happen by force and (basically) non-consent. I would state that yes...that's uncalled for...due to the sensitive nature of that subject. Helping a sub to better herself because SHE has a desire for it (and yes, so I can reap the rewards) isn't bad, negative or undesirable. In the context you suggest, it is. In the context He and I point to....it's not. tips his hat - Mr. S

HisCompletely -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:47:48 AM)
I agree Bob, and also to add to that, what does it say to the man's self esteem for "wanting" to change someone? It says he is living in a fantasy world based on what he 'sees" online etc as the "perfect" woman..............A man with confidence does not look into these things so deeply and desires their mate for several reasons, and yes, it begins in the heart, and the mind. If you do not have that first, what you have is a relationship based on physical attraction, which will last a very short time, in my opinion.

HisCompletely -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:50:42 AM)
If a Dom/man, or a sub/woman cannot be free to be comfortable with their partner with makeup, and all decked out and hanging out in sweatpants with no makeup, what does that say???????? It says, wake up to the real world!

Bobkgin -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:50:49 AM)
Winterlight, I don't think weight/size should prevent me from knowing or loving a woman. But in little over a year two women in their 40s whom I've loved died in part because of obesity. I'm not trying to define "obesity", but I've gone from 277 to 199 (does a little happy dance) on my way to 150-160ish. Weight has an enormous impact on health, and I cannot see myself loving someone who is over-weight without me being concerned for her health (as I'd hope she'd be concerned for mine). I'll be concerned for the health of my loved ones regardless of their size. Excessive weight as a risk to health is a proven fact, thus it is something I would (and have) address in an over-weight slave. I think the emphasis on the aesthetic of weight clouds the issue of health and weight. The former means nothing to me, but the latter is a very real issue and potentially limits the life-span of the relationship if/when the over-weight partner dies early.

cloudboy -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 7:53:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HisCompletely I agree Bob, and also to add to that, what does it say to the man's self esteem for "wanting" to change someone? It says he is living in a fantasy world based on what he 'sees" online etc as the "perfect" woman..............A man with confidence does not look into these things so deeply and desires their mate for several reasons, and yes, it begins in the heart, and the mind. If you do not have that first, what you have is a relationship based on physical attraction, which will last a very short time, in my opinion. I don't see how a DOM wanting to change a sub is his self esteem issue.

CutieMouse -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 8:00:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Not to be disrespectful, but aside from weight, people who advocate changes for the sake of physical beauty have been dancing around the question of what changes they are suggesting. And no one has explained how they would use "encouragement and attention" to convince someone that their beauty could be 'improved' upon through whatever methods are not being stated. Weight (too little or too much) I understand as this is a health issue. Are those advocating changes including such things as breast implants, lip enhancement, face lifts, tummy tucks, nose jobs, liposuction, botox treatments ...? Forgive me for saying this, but it sounds rather like Dr. Frankenstein trying to build himself a 'beauty queen' rather than putting time and effort into helping a woman to improve her self-esteem sufficiently that she sees her own beauty without the aid of cosmetic surgery. Somehow, saying "Honey, let's go see the doctor about improving your looks" would not seem to me to be consistent with a nurturing, supportive relationship. If you didn't like her looks to begin with, why did you pursue the relationship? Because she was willing to let you play Dr. Frankenstein on her body? What does that say about her self-esteem? Just a few honest questions, folks. I can't speak for Stephen or anyone else, but I will say that I took his comments quite differently than you, probably because I've had experiences which might be similar to what [I presume] he's suggesting. When I met the gentleman who was instrumental in "improving" me, I was about a size 12 (I'm 5'8") - not signifigantly overweight. I used to feel like quite the ugly duckling; I saw my flaws instead of my beauty. I focused on the wrong things. Over a period of about two years, he signifigantly impacted how I see myself. He challenged me intillectually, praised me, encouraged me to be true to myself, take better physical care of my body, and to get comfortable in my skin. I did lose weight over the course of the relationship - about 20# all told - but the real changes which occured happened between my ears. I dropped enough weight to get down to a size 6, and after the relationship ended gradually gained back to a size 10 (where I am now). If it was all about weight and plastic surgery, I should feel miserable and fat, right? The last time I was a size 12, I felt awkward, unattractive, had poor posture (due to feeling awkward), my self-confidence was low, and I couldn't accept a compliment to save my life, because I didn't believe it was true. I struggled to even like myself, and tended to dress to blend into the background. Heels? I never wore heels as I'd be almost 6' tall in them, and that felt just... wrong. I'm a size 10 again (within 8# of the weight I was when I met the guy who "improved" me) - I feel attractive, interesting, intelligent; I have great posture, live in stilettos, pay attention to how I dress, smile constantly, and get compliments/ turn heads - a lot. I still carry his lessons and compliments in my heart; I still walk 5 miles a day, still pay attention to what I eat (mostly), still do what I can to always present myself as attractively as possible... He fed my soul, and through feeding my soul I became a more beautiful woman.

winterlight -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 8:05:26 AM)
i know weight is a health issue that is why i am losing weight. I went to the highest of 315 and i am down to 277. I know it isn't much but it is a start. But that is not what defines me, my weight. It is WHOM i am, what i believe in, what i am about. Due to things finally falling in place for me to do this ahem.. I am going on a Dr. supervised liquid diet. I start at the end of October. I am doing this for me! For my health and to hopefully clear up or better some health issues. Depending on how much i lose i will probably be at this from October to at least July (this includes 10 weeks of maintenance. I am trying to avoid surgery to lose weight. That will be my last resort IF i fail at this.. I am going in with the attitude that i CAN do this and i am doing this for ME and only ME. Should my weight start going up during maintenance i have a back up plan. What will be interesting to see is how the male/female population responds to me at my healthy weight v.s. my weight now. I just mean i think it is going to be interesting...Right now i am an invisible person due to societies way of thinking..Believe me i have seen it all from the looks and gasps in a ladies gym room to you name it. Remember i said i have been on both sides of the coin.. New Journey: let it begin! grins...

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 8:10:36 AM)
Wow cutiemouse. What a wonderful testimony, thank you so much for sharing. You wouldn't happen to have his number? (teasing - sorta).

HisCompletely -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 8:11:32 AM)
cloudboy: With respect, anyone who wants to change their partner, unless as Bob said for health reasons, but for what I call "empty" reasons, or "selfish" reasons, means that he is not secure with himself or with her. Hope that clarifies.

Bobkgin -> RE: Difficulty finding a Dom? (10/7/2007 8:14:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sexynmentalinkc quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Just a few honest questions, folks. You state that you don't want to be disrespectful, yet you paint those that 'like what they like' (myself and Stephan, it sounds like), etc. of being like Dr. Frankenstein's and more or less forcing their subs under the knife? I'll take your comments in the spirit I suspect you likely meant them - which was to further mature conversation. I do think, however, your characterization of our comments was unfair, presumptive and forced into a different context and direction than what I believe He was talking about... My apologies if the Dr. Frankenstein metaphor was offensive. It was intended to be "provocative" as I've asked the main question earlier and illicited no response till now. quote: I don't "advocate" any of the items you listed. At the same time, neither do I take them off the table. Believe it or not, there ARE a number of female subs, etc. that do desire a Dom to further their...development. To better themselves in the area of physical beauty and/or attractiveness. When I've assisted subs in the past, it's been so partly due to my interests but partly at their behest as well. It's not all about us forcing anything on them but helping them reach goals they themselves have for their future. If that ends up including some or all of the options you stated, is that bad? I'm not going to get into the "good/bad" argument [;)] Better to say I would handle the situation quite differently if (and this has never happened) a sub were to come to me saying "I want bigger breasts, will you help me?" I would see it as a self-esteem issue. I would point out all the problems of breast implants (for example) and work on the reasons she has for not liking her breasts as they are. quote: More often than not, I wouldn't think the options you mention would be needed. I do consider this issue one that's a partnering toward an end. Not unlike what it might be for a sub to assist me in some kind of project or another. You just made the assumption, unfortunately, that any changes that might come about would happen by force and (basically) non-consent. I would state that yes...that's uncalled for...due to the sensitive nature of that subject. Helping a sub to better herself because SHE has a desire for it (and yes, so I can reap the rewards) isn't bad, negative or undesirable. In the context you suggest, it is. In the context He and I point to....it's not. tips his hat - Mr. S From my perspective, such desires being issues of self-esteem, I would not call it "forced", but rather "taking advantage of" their self-esteem issues. I acknowledge that by your light, you are helping them achieve goals. But were I to do the same, I'd have to break my ethics against taking advantage of someone with low self-esteem. Society places an inordinate, and in my opinion, wholly commercial emphasis on "beauty". There must be trillions tied up in the industry world-wide. They have every reason to make every one of us insecure about our looks. As I don't subscribe to fueling that industry, I see those who do as being victimized by the insecurities that industry deliberately seeks to inspire in each of us. Just a different pov to consider.

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