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I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 7:32:08 AM

missturbation

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Pretty sure there's been other threads on a sub's / slave's rights in a relationship before, but i'd like to challenge my own view's / opinion's, so am starting this one.

It started with a conversation i was having with a Dom about a slaves rights. They had asked a slave what they thought their right's were and they had answered 'i have the right to fit in with a Dom / Domme or leave.' This immediately threw me as i had never thought 'fitting in with Sir' was a right of mine. To me it's more of a 'goes without saying'. I serve Sir, therefore i automatically fit in with His needs / wants etc. To me a right is something i have the right to do without question.

So this then led me to think about what 'right's' i feel i do have in my relationship. It came down to the only right i have or want is the one to leave if things are not right, not repairable and there is no other option. I only see this as a right because i am an unowned slave, for me its a whole new ball game when owned. But thats not what this thread is about.

I'm curious as to what other sub's /slaves etc think their rights are?
Also curious what rights Dom's/ Domme's etc see there sub's / slave's as having?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

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Post #: 1

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 7:37:13 AM

mistoferin

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I have the right to seek happiness and fulfillment....and the right to remove myself from any situation that does not further me in that pursuit.

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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 2

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 7:42:12 AM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I have the right to seek happiness and fulfillment....and the right to remove myself from any situation that does not further me in that pursuit.

this is probably me being thick but could you clarify a little on what you mean by a situation that does not further your pursuit of happiness and fulfillment?
Thank you in advance.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 3

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 7:57:15 AM

murmur

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Maybe the sub was talking about limits and what would work best for both of them in the relationship. She wouldnt want a Dom who was seeking a sub with less limits then she, etc. The right to choose before, is she is to submit or, if there is an after, to leave. Was she talking about rights *inside* the relationship?But, as this is throught the eyes and the interpretation of the Dom with who you were talking to, we dont know for sure what the sub really meant, so who knows?
I am in a vanilla relationship, so i cant answer this question myself.
*sits nicely in a corner and watch*.

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Become who you are. - Socrate

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Post #: 4

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 7:57:30 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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I come from the school of thought, that a slave selects a master with similar mindset to begin with.   That there is enough in common from the start in terms of limits, expectations, activities and how the M/s dynamics work.

Hence in part, why a slave is a reflection of their master or vice versa.

It's best for a slave to find out what kind of rights a Master believes in giving a slave before Entering a relationship.   Not something after the fact.   Too many people rush into M/s relationship without first taking the time needed to get to know each other.

Does a slave have the right to have hobbies? work? Maintain a bank account? These rights vary from M/s relationship to relationship. Some slave are alllowed to actually own property, some are not.   Can a slave buy a new CD of music she likes or not? If so who owns the CD? What happens to it if she is released.

While slave contracts are not legally binding, they are useful in making the agreement clear and upfront. A slave contact is a reference to what was agreed upon, including what rights a slave has or does not have.   A contract is a two party agreement, for both Master and slave to follow.   Things such as the Event of release should be covered in it, at least this is my lines of thought.

Sure, the slave is there to serve their Master. However, this is a lifestyle that is one people choose of free will to follow.   Where two people get together and agree to it.   If it were otherwise, you'd have slaves pairing up with any old Master and vice versa.

In terms of rights, legally a slave can up and leave a Master. There are legal rights that anybody and everybody has. Even if a person agrees to having no legal rights, they still have them. It does not magically change the law. This is reality.

So, if a slave agrees to having no rights enters into a M/s relationship. Then 8 years laters decides to excerise her legal rights to leave the relationship. The Master better think wisely, about WTF is going on.   As my aunt used to often say, there are only two things in the world people have to do. Pay Taxes and Die.

The rights a Master is willing to give a slave vary from Master to Master. The rights a slave is willing to give up vary from slave to slave.   Some people don't realize what they are missing in life until they give it up.   M/s relationship can and do fail like any other type of relationship.

The rights one feel they should have varies as well.  TPE is generally not something that happens overnight either. It takes time and training and discipline. Both parties involve have got to want it as well.

The fact remains, M/s relationship vary.   Some slave sleep on the floor, some in the same bed, some sleep in places like the closet or elseware. Some own clothes, some do not.   It's what two people agree to, and in the end find they can manage to live with.

Some people want the extreme, others do not. M/s relationship can be a form of edge play of D/s relationship themselves.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 5

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 7:57:49 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I'm curious as to what other sub's /slaves etc think their rights are?

No matter what I have the right to leave and to do what is needed to care for and protect children in my care.

Other than that it is debatable as to what is a right and what is a privilege. Something I don't have the time for today.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 10/5/2007 7:58:22 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 6

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 7:57:52 AM

mistoferin

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Sure, I can try. If I were to find myself in a relationship that proved that we were not compatible or that required me to become something or act in a way that was not fulfilling me....I have the right to walk away from that situation. I also have the right to not become involved in a situation that didn't fit either.

I don't believe in "forever"....used to a long time ago but then I woke up. So I know that relationships require ongoing work and participation by both parties. Not to mention that people also change, the things they value and place importance on can change too.

The thing that makes the world go round is "what's in it for me". Now people can argue that all they want but the reality is, people stay in relationships that are fulfilling them. Unless they are martyrs or have no other options, they dissolve relationships that no longer fulfill them. That is not to say though, that I would just carelessly toss away a relationship without giving it every honest effort that I could....I would not.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 7

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:05:20 AM

Bobkgin

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The sub/slave spectrum covers a lot of ground. Obviously some will insist on rights that others have no use for.

I think the bottom line is:

1. right to live.
2. right to expect prompt and appropriate medical care.
3. right to leave the relationship.

Beyond this I think there will be quibbling.

Caveat 1: Prop will disagree with the above list.
Caveat 2: the above list is not a complete list of rights I acknowledge belonging to a sub/slave serving me.

on edit: clearing up some confusion, many distractions here while I composed this.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 10/5/2007 8:07:26 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 8

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:06:23 AM

leatherette

Posts: 255
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I have the right (and encouragement) to remain a human being. Not a "role". My partner has the right/authority to remain a human being and not be stiffled into always being 'on' - even though 'the role' may be natural - always a real person and individual at that.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 9

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:13:25 AM

missturbation

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Does a slave have the right to have hobbies? work? Maintain a bank account? These rights vary from M/s relationship to relationship. Some slave are alllowed to actually own property, some are not. Can a slave buy a new CD of music she likes or not? If so who owns the CD? What happens to it if she is released.
For me these are privileges. They are things that fall into my (opinion) goes without saying category. Of course that is just what works or me in my relationship.

No matter what I have the right to leave and to do what is needed to care for and protect children in my care.

Other than that it is debatable as to what is a right and what is a privilege. Something I don't have the time for today.
Completely agree.

Thankyou Mist of erin.

1. right to live.
2. right to expect prompt and appropriate medical care.
3. right to leave the relationship.
Again you see i see the first two as goes without saying.

I have the right (and encouragement) to remain a human being. Not a "role". My partner has the right/authority to remain a human being and not be stiffled into always being 'on' - even though 'the role' may be natural - always a real person and individual at that.
A little vague for me, but thank you.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)

Post #: 10

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:20:06 AM

LaTigresse

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Misst, my personal opinion is that the slave's rights are determined only by the agreement they made with their dominant and any ongoing changes and discussions.

What exists between slave "a" and dominant "b" will be different in some degree that what exists between slave "y" and dominant "z"

Some will say it's "part of the contract negotiation", others are going to call it the dreaded vanillaish but whatever....."getting to know one another" period. It just comes down to finding out if you fit one another. What rights/limits, the slave person needs or accepts and what rights/limits the dominant gives or concedes. We see discussions/debates/okay....out and out flame wars, on the one true way all the time. The reality is that as different as each of us are the reality for each of is is going to be equally individual. Just have to match up the closes D/s ideals to make it work.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 11

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:24:24 AM

missturbation

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Yep
I guess i was just curious what others classed as a right vs a goes without saying or a privilege.
Btw a negotiation between us would be very quick, all my rights gone, flick of an eyelid, just like that lol

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 12

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:33:24 AM

Bobkgin

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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

1. right to live.
2. right to expect prompt and appropriate medical care.
3. right to leave the relationship.
Again you see i see the first two as goes without saying.

I think for anyone who believes in a right, it "goes without saying".

But different people have different ideas of what is and is not a right.

I prefer explicit understanding of these rights, rather than assume they are shared and understood.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 13

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:42:23 AM

IamJustMe2C

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Every D's relationship is different ECHO all I can say is what happens in my house when it does have a slave in it. first she is a Human and treated like such. she is given time every day to tell me her thoughts and concerns without wory of being punished for what she has said. (this also goes for her journal just in case she missed or forgot something) She will work outside of the house and not sit on her bum while I support her. Anything she wants to purchase that totals more then $5.00 for the day must be aproved threw me. With the exceptions of the no brainers (car breaks down, gas) It is a rare thing for me to say no but she still must ask. It is just showing RESPECT. She might be my slave but when we go out I still open the doors for herand pull out her chair when we sit to eat and all of this is out of respect for her. I believe a D's relationship is a two way street You respect me by giving me this wonderful gift and I respect you. Some would call it a ballancing act.

It is so much more then the right to leave or the right to medical assistance or to take care of your children.
But this is just one persons opinion

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 14

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:43:23 AM

toservez

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I agree with most of these postings but to me this is a theoretical debate that does not transfer well to reality.

I totally agree the main or only right a slave has is to leave the relationship but that is great on paper but a little too cute in reality. As a slave I am also a human being and am motivated and have the right for my needs and desires to be met and to protect myself. In choosing who I am with I have chosen a person that at the time and hopefully forever will be an integral part of my needs and desires getting fulfilled.

When I read things like one right to leave type things I do not disagree with what is often discussed but kind of laugh it off when it is transferred to real life. Things like a job, family and friends by definition have rights bestowed in reality that just do not transfer to theoretical discussion.

This is why whenever I read statements like the only right a slave has is to leave, I just picture a Master forbidding a slave to visit her Mom on her birthday and therefore she leaves. Obviously in most M/s relationships “rights” tend to be flexible in their nature.

We are human beings and it is about compatibility and the truth is not about what rights are but the two people share how they want to live and respect what the other needs and wants in life and the relationship.

So the only right to leave is to me nothing more then a chapter heading. The fine print is where everything else is.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to missturbation)

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RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:52:24 AM

Bobkgin

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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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For me rights translate from the theoretical to reality through the promises and vows that are given.

When I promise to respect her need to live, to obtain prompt and appropriate medical treatment when required, to leave, etc, I am committing myself real-life to decisions that give life to the promises.

Her determination of my trustworthiness depends upon how well I live up to these promises.

And it is because I keep these vows that she need not exercise her right to leave.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 10/5/2007 8:53:57 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 16

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:53:20 AM

missturbation

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So the only right to leave is to me nothing more then a chapter heading. The fine print is where everything else is.

Good point.
I need to think on this.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 17

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:54:52 AM

daddysprop247

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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

I agree with most of these postings but to me this is a theoretical debate that does not transfer well to reality.

I totally agree the main or only right a slave has is to leave the relationship but that is great on paper but a little too cute in reality. As a slave I am also a human being and am motivated and have the right for my needs and desires to be met and to protect myself. In choosing who I am with I have chosen a person that at the time and hopefully forever will be an integral part of my needs and desires getting fulfilled.

When I read things like one right to leave type things I do not disagree with what is often discussed but kind of laugh it off when it is transferred to real life. Things like a job, family and friends by definition have rights bestowed in reality that just do not transfer to theoretical discussion.

This is why whenever I read statements like the only right a slave has is to leave, I just picture a Master forbidding a slave to visit her Mom on her birthday and therefore she leaves. Obviously in most M/s relationships “rights” tend to be flexible in their nature.

We are human beings and it is about compatibility and the truth is not about what rights are but the two people share how they want to live and respect what the other needs and wants in life and the relationship.

So the only right to leave is to me nothing more then a chapter heading. The fine print is where everything else is.

actually in our dynamic we don't even believe in the "right to leave" bit. the one right he has given me (although he reminds me he can take it back at any time) is the right to beg release...which is basically saying i have the right to tell him i'm miserable in the relationship and wish to leave, but i am still his until he grants release, and the chances of him granting release simply because i said i was unhappy are mighty slim.

no fine print, it is the way it is, clear and simple. i disagree strongly with the idea that such ways cannot be feasibly tranferred to reality...it all hinges on the integrity of the individual dynamic and how seriously those involved take the M/s dynamic.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 18

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 9:15:23 AM

toservez

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From: All over now in Minnesota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

For me rights translate from the theoretical to reality through the promises and vows that are given.

When I promise to respect her need to live, to obtain prompt and appropriate medical treatment when required, to leave, etc, I am committing myself real-life to decisions that give life to the promises.

Her determination of my trustworthiness depends upon how well I live up to these promises.

And it is because I keep these vows that she need not exercise her right to leave.

My point is this you can discuss vows or I have this right in theory all day long but in the end is the other person make you happy and your needs and important desires fulfilled?

It is easy to say and think you live in a relationship where the one right is to leave but shine a true light on it just does not hold up.

If a slave's Mom is sick in the hospital the Master has every right to go we or you are not going but we all know in reality that too many of these types of things would doom a healthy relationship. So the “vow”, “duty” or “responsibility” of making sure a slave is fulfilled and content is giving rights to them but these rights just happen not to conflict or you agree with in the Master’s own like, basically compatibility.

To me it is theoretical semantics. The difference between I as Master allow you to visit your sick mother in the hospital is just role playing because the alternative is the slave saying I damn well am going to see my sick mother in the hospital. Does that mean the relationship is over or the slave is not committed to an M/s life? I do not think so. That is why I think the one right is theoretical semantics. There are basic human rights that M/s cannot over rule that are in and around all types of relationships.

If there is one real right is the slave will have the right to have her needs and key desires fulfilled. How that is done is up to the two people involved.

< Message edited by toservez -- 10/5/2007 9:16:00 AM >

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Bobkgin)

Post #: 19

RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 9:22:28 AM

littlebitxxx

Posts: 732
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I think the one inviolable "right" that every slave should have is the right to be happy. All the limits, privileges, negotiations seem to stem from that.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 20

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