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RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 6:01:27 PM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings all,

it's not so much the "i don't personally view women as dominant" statement that bothers me.

it's the fact that it's then PROJECTED onto dominant women and THEY have to be drawn into it when really, it's not about them...it's about the op's personal feelings about the situation. i am sure there are women who do not view other women as submissive...and that is great for them, but for them to then come up to me and project that belief onto me and make me responsible for their issues surrounding that belief is what i would have a problem with.

respectfully,
annabelle.

This was my issue with this post. I don't care one way or another whether someone feels submissive to me or not. I do not care if someone thinks women are naturally submissive, or naturally dominant. Everyone is entitled their own opinion. It is what makes the world an interesting place.

But, to vocalize it (or print it as the case may be), unprovoked, is pointless. Why bother unless of course they are attempting to provoke others? In any case, unless someone is actually beginning a conversation or interaction with "I am a Dominant (insert gender here), and you will bow to my Greatness!" (or some other silly attempt to prove their supremacy, whatever), then there is no point in projecting one's issues onto those with opposing views, unless it is to accomplish a specific agenda. What was the agenda in this? Who gives a rat's ass?

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(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 41

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 6:06:17 PM

MistressDoMe

Posts: 295
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

This is the same point I made earlier.
I don't feel submissive or Dominant to most people.
Who gives a rat's ass?
We submit to whom we want to submit to.
To attempt to demean, marginalize or degrade "Dominant women",
is a load of BS.
Can you smell someone with "issues" here?

(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)

Post #: 42

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 6:15:08 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

to vocalize it (or print it as the case may be), unprovoked, is pointless.

Actually, I think your post contributes less to the subject than the OP's.

Its a very valid subject, and it explores the differences of feeling and perception in the D/S world.

I'm 100% in her corner to speak up about it. That's why this MB is here.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/5/2007 6:16:16 PM >

(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)

Post #: 43

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 6:20:51 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

Do you see all men as dominant? Are there men in your life who you relate to as peers?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 44

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 6:23:18 PM

Rose4Mistress

Posts: 162
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline

I suppose I am a bit different in this regard. I am bisexual, but I only ever feel submissive to women. This is not to say that I do not recognize dominance in a man if he has a dominant personality, because I do. However, it is the form of his dominance that is not interesting to me. I can be friends with male Doms, and even see them as a sort of mentor, but it doesn't go beyond that for me. This is why, when I have relationships with men, they tend to be very vanilla. When I am in a relationship with a woman, though, it tends to be more D/s based.
It is completely fine for you to not regard a woman as dominant if that is your "wiring". And the joy of this world is that we are all wired very differently.

(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)

Post #: 45

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 6:28:07 PM

LightHeartedMaam

Posts: 296
Joined: 5/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I just know that there will be some who are going to take this post the wrong way as if it were some sort of personal slam....and it's not, so I just want to say that up front.

While I can certainly respect a woman's dominant position in her relationship....or in her community....I don't personally see women as being dominant. It just doesn't work for ME. I've known many dominant women. Some of them are great friends of mine. But I have never FELT dominance from a woman....I just don't get that vibe from them....any of them. I see women as peers.

My question is this though, I have noticed that when I am honest about the way I feel about this, many, if not the majority, will view my opinion as a challenge and set out to "prove" their dominance to me. Some will argue the point with me....and some will go so far as to try to dominate me. Why ladies? I don't get it.

I'm not trying to slam you, it's just that male dominant/female submissive relationships are what work for me in my world. I'm not trying to tell you what to do in yours or what should work for you in yours. Some of us out here are just wired that way....some of us are wired in ways that fit better in your world. But trying to push the point only serves to alienate.

I feel the same way about submissive females as you feel about Dommes.

Is it really submission or just an exaggeration of the male idea of femininity to achieve their agendas?

_____________________________

Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that it seems I have more patience. Turns out, that I just don't give a sh*t.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 46

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 6:42:06 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

My question is this though, I have noticed that when I am honest about the way I feel about this, many, if not the majority, will view my opinion as a challenge and set out to "prove" their dominance to me. Some will argue the point with me....and some will go so far as to try to dominate me. Why ladies? I don't get it.

I'm not trying to slam you, it's just that male dominant/female submissive relationships are what work for me in my world. I'm not trying to tell you what to do in yours or what should work for you in yours. Some of us out here are just wired that way....some of us are wired in ways that fit better in your world. But trying to push the point only serves to alienate.

In general... it often the way we say something that can offend a person and not neccessarily what we say. It is not uncommon for a person to stop listening to the content just because the way something is said will offend them.

Of course... there is some that is actually threaten by your particular perspective. For some they need external validation and you perspective fails to give it but actually takes validation away. This is not from your view of Dominant women.. but we see the say issue when one sees a Dominant or Submissve person as not being the label they claim. I personally find individuals that become threaten or seeking this external validation as some what a contradiction of their claimed label. If one calls themselves Dominant or Submissive it seems rather silly to become threaten by a person of no signifcance call one less than they call themselves. Of course... insecurity or lack of confidence can cause a person to be threaten much easier than one that is not.

But to your particular viewpoint. We are going to have our own perceptions and prejudices on how we catergorize the world around us. Part of that is judging others and labeling them regardless of how they label themselves. I am like you in that I don't see women in general as Dominant. But that is not to say that I see them as submissive either. This also applies to men as well. I see a person by the character that they demonstrate in their actions. I see a liar when I see a person that lies. I see a couragous person when I see a person stand against something that puts themselves at risk (at risk of losing anything from the tangible to the intangible). I see a person as Dominant of a given relationship and I see a person submissive in a given relationship. but this is all my perceptions and they are labeled by the boxes I have made. To say that we don't make boxes and put people in them is less than truthful. But, we can and do put people in alot of boxes and not just one. The thing about labeling is that the boxes are big and small. The greater detail we know of a person the smaller boxes we will put them in. The less we know... the bigger the box and also the fewer the number of boxes we put them in. I see a person that I percieve as Racist behavior, I will drop them in a Racist box. My interest of learning more of them is immediate stopped and they will likely stay in such box. It is my prejudice not to involve myself with a racist person. They might have alot of other strengths etc... I don't care.. they drop in the one box and that is all I need to know about them. My girls feel hundreds of boxes... and the more I learn about them the more boxes they come into.

ok.. enough rambling....

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 47

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 7:14:33 PM

HottLicks

Posts: 174
Joined: 9/21/2007
Status: offline

Anyone who uses domination over someone that doesn't wish to be dominated, is not a dominant, but a pushy and abusive person. I can understand the complaint that some are pushy. I think some issues got all mixed up here. I am not easily offended, but how some things were said, I would find offensive because of how the op said them. I do not however feel offended because she said them and doesn't feel submissive to females.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 48

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 7:44:33 PM

DocRudy

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

You just used that as an example, right? Meaning you didn't imply mist of being a racist, right?

I figure it's a serious enough label to make sure.

-DR

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 49

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 7:56:03 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
I just know that there will be some who are going to take this post the wrong way as if it were some sort of personal slam....and it's not, so I just want to say that up front.

Well, I'm glad that I said this right up front, although a good many seem to have taken it as a personal affront anyway. Wow.

For all of those who "wondered" how such a conversation could come up....no, I don't go walking up to strange dominant women and tell them that I think they're full of shit. I "wonder" why anyone would even think that kind of scenario a possibility.

These are conversations that have taken place with A) dominant women I know very well and have great respect for(which generally go quite well and are understood) B) dominant women who approach me for play or in hopes of having a relationship at munches, events, parties or even here on Collarme.....and my opinion comes up after tactfully refusing their advances in as many ways as I have possibly been able to come up with. They are the ones who want to know "but WHY" and persist until I tell them. They give me a 1,000 reasons why they see themselves as dominant...."but"...."but"...."but"....

I generally hear reasons such as "I am very much in control of my life". My answer...ok, so am I and I'm submissive. "I have always been a leader". My answer, Ok....so have I and I'm submissive". "I am the breadwinner in my household and make a good income....I'm a business owner....manager, etc." My answer, ok, so am I and I'm submissive". "People just naturally follow my lead". My answer, Ok, people naturally follow my lead and I'm submissive. "I don't NEED a man, I'm perfectly capable of handling all aspects of my life without one". My answer, Ok, I don't NEED one either and I'm submissive".

"I" am a very strong, confident person with a very strong personality. I can take care of myself, manage my life, maintain my car, mow my own lawn, take out my own trash, split my own wood, hunt and process my own food. When things go wrong I figure out how to make them right, I don't need a savior to rush in and help me out. But....I don't see ANY of these things as being dominant or submissive....I just see these things as being a capable human being. However, these are the types of things that I have had dominant women state as evidence of their dominance. I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way. If I did I would likely have myself convinced that I, too, am a dominant woman.....but I'm not.

The characteristics they describe are the type of characteristics that would likely make them a greatly compatible friend for me. I admire strong people very much. But when they continue to push and wave their "dominance" at me like it's a weapon....that doesn't do anything for me but push me further away from them. It is almost like some view me as some sort of challenge....and yes, I've had some men do it too. Kind of like when a guy walks into a bar and picks a fight with the biggest guy in there....because he's got something to prove. Then of course, when the outcome is not what they set out after, the ultimate response is usually..."well, I don't think you're REALLY submissive".

Someone also asked if I see all men as dominant. No, absolutely not....not even a whole bunch of them who define themselves that way.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 10/5/2007 8:01:24 PM >

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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 50

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 8:12:15 PM

HottLicks

Posts: 174
Joined: 9/21/2007
Status: offline

You handle life well and are submissive.

I handle life well and am dominant.

Are we dominants in need of proving ourselves? I think not. And if we did... would we get tagged as defending ourselves and pushing our dominance?

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 51

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 8:41:40 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

Sexual supremacy is just wierd to me. I've had tops of boths sexes bounce off of my indifference towards it. I don't fight them over it, I just let the attack slip by without resistance.

Not caring seems to bother them more than anything else........it's all about validation.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 52

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 8:55:00 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rose4Mistress

I suppose I am a bit different in this regard. I am bisexual, but I only ever feel submissive to women. This is not to say that I do not recognize dominance in a man if he has a dominant personality, because I do. However, it is the form of his dominance that is not interesting to me. I can be friends with male Doms, and even see them as a sort of mentor, but it doesn't go beyond that for me. This is why, when I have relationships with men, they tend to be very vanilla. When I am in a relationship with a woman, though, it tends to be more D/s based.
It is completely fine for you to not regard a woman as dominant if that is your "wiring". And the joy of this world is that we are all wired very differently.

This is a very good post in my opinion. It relates to the idea of a person's orientation.

As a Hetrosexual Male... I am not going to be or ever going to be sexual aroused by a male. I can appreciate that some males from my limited perspective can be seen as attractive etc. However, I am going to be very drawn to women in general and more specifically to women that met my own sexual preferences. How we see dominance and/or submission is very much like a sexual orientation. Certain things will perk our interests.. get those juices going so to speak. But, just because X gets our buttons pushed doesn't mean we will push their hot buttons.

My hetro sexuality is not challanged just because a attractive female doesn't find me a turn on... and neither is my dominant nature challenged just because a submissive person doesn't bow down to me. The neat thing.. just like an attractive woman that is not interested in me in a sexual sense.. I can actually develop a contructive and rewarding friendship with a submissive person that doesn't happen to see me as Dominant to them.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Rose4Mistress)

Post #: 53

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 8:56:01 PM

james2Jay

Posts: 15
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline

OP:
Getting thicker skin might be your best bet, this here planet aint meant to suit you down to the tee.

Your too critical. You come across as insecure in who u are so you are trying to overcome your low self-esteem by judging others. You know those types don't you?

They sit up on a throne, arms crossed, sizing, judging, critizing everyone and thier mother. They don't like themselves deep down so they cover up by becoming judgmental of others so they can feel bring the other down to their level.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings all,

it's not so much the "i don't personally view women as dominant" statement that bothers me.

it's the fact that it's then PROJECTED onto dominant women and THEY have to be drawn into it when really, it's not about them...it's about the op's personal feelings about the situation. i am sure there are women who do not view other women as submissive...and that is great for them, but for them to then come up to me and project that belief onto me and make me responsible for their issues surrounding that belief is what i would have a problem with.

respectfully,
annabelle.

ypur right, its all about the OP and her own personal problem. self-esteem problem.

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 54

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 9:07:52 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Why thank you james for the free evaluation. I'll certainly give it some consideration.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to james2Jay)

Post #: 55

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 9:10:50 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Dear Ladies and Gentlemen;

Not responding to any particular person or posted comments. However, I do believe and it is my personal opinion that at times there will be a perception of a dominant woman that can fall to one side of a line or another. One side could be seen as domineering, pushy, etc. and the other side as being assertive, strong, self confident and or independent. It is my belief that people with a pre-disposition of bias/prejudice will take an instant and form something which can be seen either way--just depends on individuals who judge another person, such as a dominant woman/man as pushy and or crude or just being self confident, strong and speaking up where there is an open spot for expression.

It is another situation of where one sees the glass half empty, the other sees it half full. It isn't about who or what is right or wrong but, the personal and individualized perception of what is we (in general) see in others.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 56

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 9:14:11 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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mmmmmmm what if instead of talking about Dominance... it was about a person's sexual oreintation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

While I can certainly respect a woman's dominant position in her relationship....or in her community....I don't personally see women as being dominant. It just doesn't work for ME. I've known many dominant women. Some of them are great friends of mine. But I have never FELT dominance from a woman....I just don't get that vibe from them....any of them. I see women as peers.

so reworded it might look like

while I can certainly respect a woman's sexual place in her relationship... or in society.... I don't personally see women as being sexually stimulating. It just doesn't work for ME. I've know many attractive women. Some of them are great friends of mine. But I have never FELT sexually aroused by a women....I just don't get that vibe from them.... any of them. I see women as peers.

mmmmmmm and then

quote:

My question is this though, I have noticed that when I am honest about the way I feel about this, many, if not the majority, will view my opinion as a challenge and set out to "prove" their dominance to me. Some will argue the point with me....and some will go so far as to try to dominate me. Why ladies? I don't get it.

My question is this though, I have noticed that when I am honest about the way I feel about this, many, if not the majority, will view my opinion as a challlenge and set out to "prove" their sexual alure to me. Some will argue the point with me.... and some will go so far as to try to turn me on. Why ladies? I don't get.

and then...

quote:

I'm not trying to slam you, it's just that male dominant/female submissive relationships are what work for me in my world. I'm not trying to tell you what to do in yours or what should work for you in yours. Some of us out here are just wired that way....some of us are wired in ways that fit better in your world. But trying to push the point only serves to alienate.

I'm not trying to slam you, it's just that male/female sexual relationships are what work for me in my world. I'm not trying to tell you what to do in yours or what should work for you in yours. Some of us out here are just wired that way... some of us are wired in ways that fit better in your world. But trying to push the point only serves to alienate.

you know... it's really not such a bad post when a person it just talking about their own sexual perference. In fact, most would agree. What if Erin was talking about her sexual preference for women over men... mmmmmmmm me thinks alot of women would be defending her right to choose to be with women... thou... i can imagine more that a few stupid males saying "you like women cause you haven't met a man like me'''' yeah stupid

Erin.. you make some really good point about your own preference... and when I see the over sensitive comments... I look at the stupid male comment and see one and the same.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 57

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 9:14:29 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
While I can certainly respect a woman's dominant position in her relationship....or in her community....I don't personally see women as being dominant. It just doesn't work for ME. I've known many dominant women. Some of them are great friends of mine. But I have never FELT dominance from a woman....I just don't get that vibe from them....any of them. I see women as peers.

My question is this though, I have noticed that when I am honest about the way I feel about this, many, if not the majority, will view my opinion as a challenge and set out to "prove" their dominance to me. Some will argue the point with me....and some will go so far as to try to dominate me. Why ladies? I don't get it.

I don't get it either - from my standpoint, I've never felt like dominating a woman. I have been told by a couple that I know that I inspire submission in them from time to time, but for me it's pretty 'eh'. And why try to convert someone who will never be converted? It's a waste of time and an exercise in frustration.

However, I do have a question (and I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone already asked it) - do you not see them as Dominant at all, or do you just not feel like they are Dominant to you? I can see their point more if you refuse to see their Dominance period (I don't care if you see them as peers ... but do you deny their Dominance entirely?). It's still silly ... but at least it would make a bit more sense.

_____________________________

Miss Karen and Miss Holly

Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.

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(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 58

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 9:17:40 PM

MistressPurpleFL

Posts: 112
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline

Let me see here.... no one I have ever met in this lifestyle ever said I did not vibe off dominance; it IS who I am. We all have our opinions just as I don't see men as equal in this DS world. Respect is given but in my mind set I control things and that is just how it works you either like it and stay or hate it and leave.

I am not submissive to either males or females but I respect opinons enjoy interacting with like-minding people; that is what keeps things interestings and I never INVALIDATE how someone is wired or feels I just agree to disagree.

:)

_____________________________

"Life is too short to stay in the missionary position" By Mistress PurpleFL

"Nothing caresses like a suede whip in my hand; now let me touch you all over." Be me

"Smile at me with your eyes as you KNEEL to serve me with your HEART!" By me

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 59

RE: Dominant women - 10/5/2007 9:23:54 PM

iammachine

Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

"I don't see a woman as being dominant" comes across a lot differently than saying "I do not feel submissive towards women."

The first statement implies that a woman cannot be dominant,

See....I don't get how you made that LEAP. I see her 1st statement for EXACTLY what she SAID....she doesn't see them as dominant....NOWHERE did she say they CAN'T be.

Hence the word "implies" being there. It isn't explictly said, but it can very easily be construed that way, regardless of what the intent of the statement may be.

The first is a statement about someone else's disposition - which could easily be construed as invalidating the fact that they have a dominant disposition. The second statement allows recognition that a woman may be dominant, but she does not personally feel submissive towards women. The differences may be subtle, but the way the statements come across can be profoundly different.

When in doubt, own your opinions and own your feelings. Making a statement that is unqestionably personal goes over much better than projecting an opinion or judgement onto others.

_____________________________

I still hear you scream... in every breath, every single motion

(in reply to breatheasone)

Post #: 60

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