DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (Full Version)

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slavedesires -> DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/26/2005 7:54:22 PM)

In regards to D/s, M/s relationships, not so much top/bottom relationships ~~

Men dont particularly romanticize the lifestyle, yet woman seem to want romance and the getting to know you as in nilla before "playing" and leave the exploration of understanding the style of a Dom, to later after they "fall in love."
(Sorry i dont mean to leave out Dommes/male subs, but i am femsub, so am asking from this side of the coin.)
All we need do is browse profiles on CM to see this.
Friendship, trust and respect comes with time and then......
But many women carry the notion, right or wrong doesnt matter: The truth is that men just want to fuck you. That's all they are interested in. If they couldn't fuck us, they wouldn't have us.

Someone told me recently: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST..THAT IS WHY WE ARE DOMS...WE WANNA PLAY.....lol
and if we find the right play partner we will have a relationship

So my question, i guess is, what comes first...the relationship or the play (yes after some trust and respect is established) because is it not basic (foundational) to this lifestyle to find out if the play part is even compatible with the relationship??

Have posted this in the "Ask a Master" section cause that is a pretty point blank statement about Doms. Hope i made perfect cents...oops...sense. [;)]

~~shy



domtimothy46176 -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/26/2005 8:14:35 PM)

Play is irrelevant and so is sex. When formulating my agreement with toy, I specifically pointed out that I would assure her of neither. The simple fact is, there are easier ways to get laid and plenty of kinky folks outside of D/s. I'm fairly certain that I'm not the only dominant who finds this to be true.
OTOH, I don't, as I have stated previously in other posts, consider love to be a viable foundation for my intimate relationships. Love is fragile and all to often fleeting when not mistaken for it's close cousin lust in the first place. I prefer a more stable basis for my relationships, like shared belief systems, complimentary needs and mutual goals, supported by respect and honest communication. For myself, THAT is a relationship and all else is secondary, if not optional.
Timothy



Padriag -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/26/2005 8:23:07 PM)

Ouch... do I detect a note of bitterness?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavedesires

Men dont particularly romanticize the lifestyle, yet woman seem to want romance and the getting to know you as in nilla before "playing" and leave the exploration of understanding the style of a Dom, to later after they "fall in love."

That's not true of all men or all doms. And not all women want romance either. Speaking for myself I won't play with someone I don't know. I prefer to begin with a friendship. And oddly enough, many of the submissive women I encounter either think that is weakness or assume that friendship means I'm not interested in anything else.

quote:

All we need do is browse profiles on CM to see this.

While you are browsing, take a look at all the profiles of women who just want to play. The sexual displays, the nudity, the long lists of their kinks and fetishes; yet the near or complete absence of any other interests outside of the lifestyle. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of male HNG on here, but there are quite a few women that fall into the category as well. When I look at profiles I look for three things initially... physical attraction (lets not kid ourselves here, I'm not going to persue someone I'm not attracted too, who would?), sincerity, and enough in their profile to give me some idea of who they are outside the lifestyle. I hardly look at their fetish interests, other than to note if there is anything that absolutely turns me off. Want to take a guess how few of the profiles I've seen actually fit into that? If you guessed "not many" give yourself a cookie.

quote:

Friendship, trust and respect comes with time and then......
But many women carry the notion, right or wrong doesnt matter: The truth is that men just want to fuck you. That's all they are interested in. If they couldn't fuck us, they wouldn't have us.

More's the pity because its just one more wall a man who really is interested in them has to batter down. Sometimes you women put yourselves so high up in ivory towers we just can't reach you no matter how sincere we are. And there are also a lot of women in this lifestyle who don't seem to know what to do with a man who does actually care about them, shows real affection, etc. I see more profiles of women wanting to be treated like objects by sadists who will simply use them than I do women who both want love and know how to accept it. BTW, before someone says it, I'm not saying being a sadist and loving is mutually exclusive, it isn't. But, looking at many of the profiles you get the impression that there are a number of women out there who have this fantasy image of this cruel, uncaring, sadistic dom who doesn't show affection and will simply use them. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own I guess. Personally, I don't consider myself a sadist but I have my moments when I absolutely am gleefully sadistic... I also happen to be caring, affectionate, and loving. These things are not mutually exclusive.

quote:

Someone told me recently: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST..THAT IS WHY WE ARE DOMS...WE WANNA PLAY.....lol
and if we find the right play partner we will have a relationship

I'd say most of us want to play... its just a question of how many of us would also like to have a relationship, either now or at some point.

quote:

So my question, i guess is, what comes first...the relationship or the play (yes after some trust and respect is established) because is it not basic (foundational) to this lifestyle to find out if the play part is even compatible with the relationship??

I think it really depends on the individuals and what their priorities are. Some are here just to play, of both genders. Some here are just wanna-be's who think this is an easy way to get laid, of both genders (though I'll grant that group is probably mostly men), some are just thrill seekers looking for some excitement (and this in my experience is mostly women). But there are also those of us who would very much like a solid relationship, and again of both genders.

Speaking for myself, I didn't write a near novel in my profile about who I am, why I am here, and what I seek, if all I wanted was just to get laid or play. If that's all I wanted there are easier and more direct ways than this web site.



junkyard -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/26/2005 8:39:20 PM)

Padriag is right. It just depends on how you come at this whole thing. I romanticize this lifestyle - check my profile.

I don't just want to fuck, I don't just want to play. I turn away more people than I accept into my embrace. I guess I could be having sex with them first before tossing them aside, but I can't see the point of that.

My time is valuable, most importantly to me. I don't waste it on casual nonsense. The minutes are slipping away from us all...

...memento mori.



Kinkypupper -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/26/2005 9:09:25 PM)

This is one comment that I Strongly disagree with.
I will accept the fact that it may indeed be true for the majority, HOWEVER there are some who want more then submission, a LOT more then obediance, and a huge amount more thenjust some "words".
I also accept that there are some subs who just want to be beaten and used and sent home. Just because I do not subscribe to that fact does not mean that I also will not accept that it exists.

I am sure there are some here who want a LOT more then just a slave or sub.
May not be a lot but they are surely here.
Ok at least one is :-)

I have no problem at all in developing a deep friendship with someone and NOT just want to use their body. I want their mind, Their thoughts, their trust and their heart.
I have to earn that. Yes I want to fuck them also. I admit that and its a important part of the entire package. ( I will no longer wait 15 years to get that blowjob from a wife who has no intention ever of doing so.) So yes the sexual compatability part is way important.

I do not want to waste the few years I have left on this earth in "dating" a person who would be sexually or Kink wise uncompatable.
I do not want to just use someone and cast them off.
So am I up front as to who and what U am ? YES.
Am I surprised that my ad in Yahoo for a year resulted in NO replys that went anywhere. NO. I am not really sure why I even put one in there as there is where I made the mistake of falling in love with a "vanilla" female some years back.

Have I met females whom I consider friends and even had them in my home for more then a few days and not fucked them. YES There are more important things then just that.
To feel that the world revolves around fucking is the attitude of a horny teenager
(or someone who is just way horney).






EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/26/2005 11:55:45 PM)

Like most things, it totally depends on what's going on in the context.

With relationships, I want RELATIONSHIPS, sex and kink just happen to be a part of that whole.

When I'm out for the night and meet a hot person and he/she sparks my interest, then I want to fuck and/or play with them. Relationship may or may not continue after that on any level.



GaelstormIRA -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 2:41:48 AM)


There you go. I am not saying all Doms are not just for the sex, or just for what they get out of it. But I am one who wants to know the sub, before I do anything. It is much easier and safer to do it that way.

You do not have to post your profile, people just link your name.



CollaredClaireUK -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 3:25:20 AM)

for U/us personally we had play first and the love came as trust and honesty was proven on both sides, it just grew. I could not submit heart, body, soul and mind to a man i didnt think loved me.... It is not like vanilla love that I have previously experienced though it is much stronger. If he desires to take make during or after a scene yes it is more lustful but the love is also there if that makes any sense LOL Also now and again i glimpse a very deep romantic streak within Him but would never tell Him ......



Focus50 -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 3:27:43 AM)

I've posted it many times that physical play is merely a logical extension of a greater relationship. For me, it's not about the play so much as who I'm playing with. It's not nearly enough for her to just be a willing or available participant.... We hafta connect first as a couple at all levels before I'd wanna dominate any fem/sub.

I'm not sure I agree that "Men dont particularly romanticize the lifestyle". Over the years, I've had fem/sub friends show me many emails and dom profiles that are choked with overly romanticised poetic fancy and notions. There's some mighty creative D/s theorists out there! Only the women themselves would know if such flowery nonsense in some doms strikes a chord with them....

Focus50.



Jayxkes -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 3:28:23 AM)

As with so many of this type of question there really is no definitive answer! With some it is the relationship, with others the play.

From personal experience I can assure you that some doms do very definately do relationships first.

However, what is your definition of 'first'? Are you talking about 2 people meeting, dating, falling in love, getting married and setting up home before introducing the BDSM aspects?

Or are you thinking more along the lines of them feeling an attraction for each other and wanting to build a relationship which includes BDSM?

The way I read your post, I get the idea that you are saying that doms just want to play and have casual sex. If that is what you mean, then certainly there are some that do, some that don't and many in between.



EvilTwin -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 4:06:45 AM)

My view...
In a relationship, the relationship is what matters.
Whether it be vanilla, swing, BDSM, ect.
If there is a relationship that extends outside of the time you are pursuing the extension, that should be the focus.
I am still relatively new at this so my opinion is my own... and comes with a lesser amount of experiance than others.
But still, I see a relationship as your life. and the side projects such as D/s, BDSM, swing, ect as details.
Life is what happens while you concider the details.


Jim



plantlady64 -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 6:45:50 AM)

Hello There,
I THANK GOD have found My Master that owns my heart so currently I'm only looking for lifestyle good friends for encounters. I have my Masters permission to have a wide-open relationship with him at least through the first year of my life as a sub. On 2/24/06 we'll decide if I'm still allowed full contact friends or just scene contact friends only. Now any potential f**c buddy Dom Friend has to come to my local dungeon and play with me while my Master watches me for protection purposes before I'd consider them as a full contact friend, and my Master has to feel they will respect my limits and body before I can see me privately. Of course I also have to respect them as a person, like whom they are & be attracted too. At this point I only have one other full contact man I play with.
When I was searching for a loving relationship I actually had the desire to play with someone before I'd consider them for a real heartfelt relationship. You could say I was looking to get f**ked and test drive their Dom skills first before deciding if we'd meet in the vanilla part of our relationship. I felt if I invested the time in a man to genuinely feel something that I wanted to develop and they were lousy in bed or had a BDSM approach I didn't enjoy I'd have wasted not only my time but his as well. Also most of my sub friends are also into playing in a no intercourse contact permitted dungeon I belong to and are willing to play with Doms while they search for the Master who will hold their heart too.
So basically I disagree that most women want the relationship first. There are a lot of us that think if you don't play in unison there's no reason to build the heartfelt emotional connection with someone you don't respect as a Dom first.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne



blackwolf99 -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 8:39:35 AM)

quote:

Men dont particularly romanticize the lifestyle, yet woman seem to want romance and the getting to know you as in nilla before "playing" and leave the exploration of understanding the style of a Dom, to later after they "fall in love."
(Sorry i dont mean to leave out Dommes/male subs, but i am femsub, so am asking from this side of the coin.)
All we need do is browse profiles on CM to see this.
Friendship, trust and respect comes with time and then......
But many women carry the notion, right or wrong doesnt matter: The truth is that men just want to fuck you. That's all they are interested in. If they couldn't fuck us, they wouldn't have us.


First off, anytime you speak in absolutisms ('all men' do this, 'all women' are like this) you are automaticly wrong. Not all men are the same, nor are all women are the same.
I understand that you are likely speaking from the experiences you have, and that a large number of men use this site as a place to get laid. But not all do. Nor do all the women here desire intimacy and romance. I have encountered a great many that just want to have sex, no strings attatched.

Speaking for strictly myself, intimacy is something that is built with trust. Many of my relationships start out nonsexual (inregards to intercourse, or my own physical gratification.). I know that sounds unbelievable since I am poly,and many here seem to think that means I am a swinger that just has casual sex ( god I hate that cliche'). In most cases sex with me is earned. You want in my bed you are going to have to earn the privledge with your submission. My own sub knows I wont (as you so eloquently put) "fuck her", if she doesnt deseve it. Part of being a Dom (for me) is being in control of
myself before I can control a sub. This includes my own physical desires as well.

I think perhaps you have been running into less experienced Doms who have not learned this yet. I say this based purely on the fact that as a young/inexperienced Dom I was guilty of that the same crime. Have long since learned better.

Intimacy/ romance is (for me) a natural by product of my own needs and desires being fulfilled. It endures well past aftercare. I have learned that loving compassion for one who has endured fulfilling my desire is the best way to ensure that they will want to do so again.
I take care of your needs, so that you will want to take care of my needs, so that I will want to take care of my needs.
Its a circle that feeds on itself. Sure I could do the 'wham bam thank you ma'am' on you, but likely only once. Or I could invest a little time into your needs and likely enjoy pleasures with you many times.
Its just that simple.

I am sorry that you have had bad experiences, but know that not all of us men are as you discribe.

my sub has just commented that this is the difference between a 'guy/boy' and a 'man'.
A guy/boy is only concernerned with his own needs, where as a man is concerned with the need of others before his own. Also a man does not think of himself as a man (the thought does not originate from within himself), he is thought of as a man by others around him. I am not a Dom because I say I am. I am a Dom because I behave in a manner that earns the respect of those around me and those that serve me. The right to call myself a Dom (or a man) is earned through action and deed, and is not given by one's self. It is given by others.

Personally I like it when I am thought of as a man. I enjoy the resepct better

Just myown thoughts, based solely on my experience.



feline -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 10:07:34 AM)

quote:

So my question, i guess is, what comes first...the relationship or the play (yes after some trust and respect is established) because is it not basic (foundational) to this lifestyle to find out if the play part is even compatible with the relationship??


The relationship. That is how He wanted it, and I couldn't have agreed more.



[image]local://upfiles/17000/7E80D032DAD04B479FE10D7CBD6B8D88.gif[/image]



Faramir -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 10:44:25 AM)

In general men and women tend to approach intimacy from opposite ends. Both are aiming for the same goal - both want love, eros, true intimacy.
Men want to love with all their hearts and be loved just as much as women do.

It has been my observation that men tend to want a woman to be physically present in a relationship before they risk themselves emotionally, and that women tend to want a man to be emotionally present before they allow themselves to be in physically.

Thank God for the madness of infatuation that let's us each take the wild leap of faith it takes to get to the center.



junkyard -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 11:37:22 AM)

I am minorly hi-jacking this thread to make one just point (if some moderator wants to move it, go right ahead):

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
When I'm out for the night and meet a hot person and he/she sparks my interest, then I want to fuck and/or play with them. Relationship may or may not continue after that on any level.


Seriously, why even bother to call this "poly"? Isn't this exactly what was always called "swinging" previously? I note that a euphemism is usually used to conceal or whitewash an idea that is distasteful to many. To me such words are like bad marketing attempts to disguise the obvious.

Now I realize I am taking the particular and applying it to the general, which may not really be fair. But a disproportionate amount of the time I see that poly boils down to something like this for many poly enthusiasts: "I'm going to do what I want and the other members of my poly *union* are going to have to be okay with that."

From what I understand of EmeraldSlave2's situation, she refuses to belong to a master that would tie her down to anything non-poly. That's a very "from the bottom to the top" kind of limit. Which in my mind raises the question of whether she is truly owned or just enjoyed from time to time.

Maybe more details are needed here.

I won't deny my general view that poly as practiced by most people seems a laughably absurd proposition if intimacy is what is desired.

- Richard



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 12:02:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: junkyard
Seriously, why even bother to call this "poly"? Isn't this exactly what was always called "swinging" previously? I note that a euphemism is usually used to conceal or whitewash an idea that is distasteful to many. To me such words are like bad marketing attempts to disguise the obvious.

Seriously, why even bother to question when you ignore the other half of my post which was just as relevant to the point?

I do play, in some ways I could be considered a swinger/player because I am happy just having one night stands and playing for playings sake.

BUT I also have life long committed relationships. You can do both. That's polyamory- multiple committed intimate relationship. That was the first half of the post I made, the part about relationships, the part you ignored.
quote:


From what I understand of EmeraldSlave2's situation, she refuses to belong to a master that would tie her down to anything non-poly. That's a very "from the bottom to the top" kind of limit. Which in my mind raises the question of whether she is truly owned or just enjoyed from time to time.

As opposed to perhaps a slave who refused to belong to a master who would make her stop being a christian?

If the Owner told me tomorrow to end all other relationships with all other partners, it would happen. In fact that's one of the first conversations I make sure to have with EACH new partner I have when things become serious, to make sure they understand that part of my life.

They all exist due to the grace of the Owner, and could be cut off at any point in time by him.

But what would be the point in him doing that frivolously? The Owner WANTS me to have other relationships, he ENCOURAGES me to form stable sexual partnerships with others. To say I control him in that aspect is like saying a slave is controlling their master because the master wants their slave to masturbate daily and the slave happens to be really fulfilled by it.



junkyard -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 12:24:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
As opposed to perhaps a slave who refused to belong to a master who would make her stop being a christian?


No, you're right - there are things I wouldn't take away from someone if it was a deep need. We probably wouldn't agree on that point anyway, me and your hypothetical xtian sub.

I *so* would not get along with a serious church goer...

=)



DarkVoyeur -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 1:02:49 PM)


See I think it varies here, at least for me.
Play and sex are not always connected for me. I do not need a relationship, per se for play. I need to know someone a bit more for sex. I NEED to know that we are compatible in these areas, AND many others for a relationship.

I am not monogamous, I will not claim to be. I enjoy multiple play partners, and I occasionally enjoy multiple sex partners. I enjoy my poly lifestyle, and it doesn't matter if that manifests as multiple partners at home, or outside the home. The one thing I don't do is lie about any of it.



Niran -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (7/27/2005 1:33:22 PM)

Men want to love with all their hearts and be loved just as much as women do.

Maybe I am just in a piss-poor mood, but I cannot think of one man I know that would, if forced to choose, would choose love over sex. Sex is important, ok, I can work with that. We all know its easier. Love..ah well. Who said that love was too unstable? Its such a fine line. Love=sex=love which doesnt equal a dang thing.

Like I said, piss poor mood, gonna shut up now,

N



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