RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (Full Version)

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slavedesires -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/5/2005 11:56:47 PM)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

now i get it [:)]

duh of me!

we were talking about vegetbles all along? [8D]


okokokok....will stand in the corner for that one Sir[>:]



Lordandmaster -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 12:04:27 AM)

You know, I was trying to point out why no one has responded to your thread in a very useful way: because everyone took the unwarranted leap from "dom" to "male." I was saying this for the benefit of YOUR thread. If you'd rather just be clever, that's your right, but I really don't comprehend why you would start a thread asking a specific question and then pretend over and over not to understand someone's reply.

The way you reacted when I said that the generalizations you quoted were useless is pretty telling, too. You took it as an attack on YOU. Very irrational and defensive.



pinkpleasures -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 5:03:04 AM)

quote:

When i originally made this post......
1. i had been chatting with different folk and began to ask myself some questions.
2. i had been in the process of reading dozens of profiles
3. i had been in the process of looking up the profiles of posters on the message boards
4. i was trying to peice together what peeps really wanted according to their profiles
5. i was discouraged with so many disengenuine (did i just make up a word?) folk....i really dont like to call people "real" or "true" or "wannabe"
6. i was questioning so many things...... some questions related to me, some friends...some just questions about "stuff"....

i had no idea of what words to use when i made the post. I just wanted to know in general how people went about finding their lifestyle partner....if they spent weeks, months...chatting (IM, phone, email) or whether they jumped right into some sort of play before going deeper in the relationship to know if they were compatible with play as well as persoanlity and other forms of compatability.

Whether falling in love was paramount or was style of play just as important to people in BDSM.
I dont usually read men's profiles, i have one, but i do read women's profiles.

There seemed to be women looking for the extremes....
from one time play sessions either sexul or nonsexual...dungeons or private
to
long term, 24/7 romantic type soulmate bonds without "playing" until they "fell in love."
That is a vast extreme of polarity.

LnM....the two quotes you just used in the reply i initially made ..... were actual quotes from OTHERS, in private chat or email, who are also on this website. i did need to say who made them....for any number of men and women could have made them.

Yes they may be useless generalizations to you...but they WERE sometimes truth when they were stated.

i cannot....i refuse to think of doms as not men or dommes as women.
Dom and Domme are labels, not human flesh and blood that breath and have emotions, that care and dont care..... human beings, not labels.

*sigh

~~shy


shy..darling..if you were reading women's profiles, why did you start a thread asserting some allegation about MEN? If there's something women don't understand..it's MEN. As you pointed out..women state in their profiles that they want a wide array of "things" from Men -- some want a quickie, some want a life partner. Some seem to care how genuine a Man's claim to be a Dom or Master is; others do not. Given this pea soup, what could we possibly infer about Men/Doms/Masters by reading the profiles of women?

No girl of 16 is unfamiliar with heartbreak (mostly by Men, but hey, for our lezbian girlfriends, let's admit woman can be mean too). By my age (52) i can look back at my old lovers and say "yup, yup, pondscum --pondscum --pondscum"; but see, i CHOSE those Men; it wasn't a car accident. And then i look at my Men friends, who are Great Men, and wonder (quite rightly) wtf have i been doing with my life?? Yes, SOME Men are pondscum -- possibly you have to look a bit harder to find one after another but i'm living proof it can be done -- but SOME Men are Great and the Doms and Masters i have made friends with here in the past 18 months are amazing. Not available, but amazing. It is a joy to include Them in my life.

i do not know how many P/pl are on-site here, but i cannot imagine reading and recalling every Man's profile, including every Dom, Master and submissive. New Men arrive all the time..and surely some Men leave? <Thinks "Stairway to Heaven", LOL> i don't know how a statistically valid sample of profiles would be constructed, but it would include reading the profiles of Men, not women.

Maybe i have misunderstood what you meant to say, shy; and if so i deeply apologise.

pinkpleasures



slavedesires -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 7:02:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

[
shy..darling..if you were reading women's profiles, why did you start a thread asserting some allegation about MEN? If there's something women don't understand..it's MEN. As you pointed out..women state in their profiles that they want a wide array of "things" from Men -- some want a quickie, some want a life partner. Some seem to care how genuine a Man's claim to be a Dom or Master is; others do not. Given this pea soup, what could we possibly infer about Men/Doms/Masters by reading the profiles of women?

pinkpleasures


mmmm, just had to re-read my list of 6 things.....nope never said i was reading and looking up ONLY women's profiles.

i understand your thoughts...thank you.

Doesnt there come a time in someone's life when they just sit and back and reflect on a whole lot of things...for instance, how i even got involved?
Or how others i know get involved?
And the 2 awesome people i quoted said some powerful things, so i thought... and then i wanted opinions.

*smile
~~shy



slavedesires -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 7:15:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You know, I was trying to point out why no one has responded to your thread in a very useful way: because everyone took the unwarranted leap from "dom" to "male." I was saying this for the benefit of YOUR thread. If you'd rather just be clever, that's your right, but I really don't comprehend why you would start a thread asking a specific question and then pretend over and over not to understand someone's reply.

The way you reacted when I said that the generalizations you quoted were useless is pretty telling, too. You took it as an attack on YOU. Very irrational and defensive.



*smile and a good morning to you Sir.... nope you have me, a round peg being shoved into a square hole. [:)]

May i say this clearly? I.. DID NOT take it as an attack on me. IF i seemed to YOU to BE irrationsl and defensive, those were your observations, assumptions and opinions.
Thank you for stating them.

so if you took my posts as irrational and defensive, yes you may see it that way.
BUT they were not.

My attempt to lighten the mood on the subject obviously was not blantant enough ..... i will not apologize for my sense of humor.

But thank you for your sincere observations and opinions.

~~shy



slavedesires -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 7:25:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragonzbane

I heard it said once that "Women give sex for love and men give love for sex". I know this is not always the case. But can't the same be said of Doms and subs ?


i tried to think of this saying when i made my original post...but could not remember it.
So thank you very much for bringing it up.
A man, a casual "lover," told me that a long while back.

Generally i agree..whether you are man or women, nilla, kinky, fetishy, hard core BDSM or just WIITYD..............

UNLESS the relationship is based on Friendship, Respect, Trust and Love.
And even then, isnt it just fun to fuck cause you are wild about the guy or gal you love?
[:D]

~~shy



kc692 -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 7:26:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You know, I was trying to point out why no one has responded to your thread in a very useful way: because everyone took the unwarranted leap from "dom" to "male." I was saying this for the benefit of YOUR thread. If you'd rather just be clever, that's your right, but I really don't comprehend why you would start a thread asking a specific question and then pretend over and over not to understand someone's reply.

The way you reacted when I said that the generalizations you quoted were useless is pretty telling, too. You took it as an attack on YOU. Very irrational and defensive.


Lam, I think everyone took the leap, because she put it in ask a Master,and because she used the spelling Dom, which to me connotates male gender.



nella -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 8:12:17 AM)

pinkpleasures

quote:

No girl of 16 is unfamiliar with heartbreak


i was not, i had no boyfrind unthil i was 16 and he is still whit me. [:D]



KnightofMists -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 9:06:40 AM)

I have to say first that I don't particularly agree with this prespective. I am not one to consider that men as a generality just wish to "Fuck you". However, saying that one needs to recognize that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Meaning, that only a few men who are behaving inappropriately will cause great attention and cause generalities. Since their very behavior is so aggressive and frankly disrespectful. My girls and I only just came on to Collarme very recently. I was not surprized or discourage to see the sudden stupidity of a few loud individuals proposition my girls. One even propostion and seeked and desire to get to know her, before her profile was even approved. For some low lifes, you just have to be a female to get their interest, and a few I wonder if they even care if your a human or sheep. At the same time, there was a few that sent compliments with regards to their profiles and left it at that, something that is done tastefully and respectfully is always appreciated. I even had one Dominant send me an email expressing his compliments on the profiles. Now these compliments are few in comparison to the others, but yet they hold far more value and it reflects in my opinion of men in general. I will not let the few (loud ones) displace my preceptions of the whole. Online is very much like liquid courage for those fools lets not allow them to color the truth in appropriately at the expense of the many that are quiet.

Now to the question... does Relationship or Play come first. It is a matter of personal choice. Ones situation, needs and desires reflect alot on how one would choose. I personally see it much more common that people seek to have a relationship with a person before play. Causual play is more a fantasy for those that wish to avoid responsibility and commitment than it is a reality. yes Causal play does occur, but is not as common as one would think. Also, you can't just take the prespective one sees at the public play parties, for in fact the possibility of causal play is much higher in such an environment than any where else. One shoulddn't forget that not everyone goes to the public play parties, in fact less than 40 % actually attend these events to any consistent degree. public play is indeed a place that causal play has the highest chance of succeeding and therefore it is not surprizing to see many that are looking for such experiences to be in attendance of such events.

'Doms Don't Do Relationships First" this is indeed one of the more silly comments I have heard to date. In my opinion, A Dominant is all about the relationship, while a Top is focused on the play! A Dominant focuses on the growth and strenght of a relationship which will have a decidely positive side-affect on increasing the pleasure experience of play. While a Top will focus on the relationship to maximize the experience in play. It is a question of motivation. neither one being better than the other, just one serves different needs and wants of a person that is appropriate for their situation.

For me the play is a reflection of the relationship. Not the type of the relationship but it's strength. This is not to be compared to having a bad day.. or even a rough moment in the relationship. It is the strength of commitment, respect, trust in the relationship. Every relationship will have minor ups and downs. But on the whole, my play is much more pleasurable with one that I feel a strong connection. The stronger my connection with the person I am playing with... the more pleasurable the play is. So naturally becuase of this personal beleif ... I am driven to have what I call Power Enhancment Relationships, this gives me the greatest of rewards.

KoM

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavedesires

In regards to D/s, M/s relationships, not so much top/bottom relationships ~~

Men dont particularly romanticize the lifestyle, yet woman seem to want romance and the getting to know you as in nilla before "playing" and leave the exploration of understanding the style of a Dom, to later after they "fall in love."
(Sorry i dont mean to leave out Dommes/male subs, but i am femsub, so am asking from this side of the coin.)
All we need do is browse profiles on CM to see this.
Friendship, trust and respect comes with time and then......
But many women carry the notion, right or wrong doesnt matter: The truth is that men just want to fuck you. That's all they are interested in. If they couldn't fuck us, they wouldn't have us.

Someone told me recently: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST..THAT IS WHY WE ARE DOMS...WE WANNA PLAY.....lol
and if we find the right play partner we will have a relationship

So my question, i guess is, what comes first...the relationship or the play (yes after some trust and respect is established) because is it not basic (foundational) to this lifestyle to find out if the play part is even compatible with the relationship??

Have posted this in the "Ask a Master" section cause that is a pretty point blank statement about Doms. Hope i made perfect cents...oops...sense. [;)]

~~shy




caitlyn -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 9:23:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavedesires

But many women carry the notion, right or wrong doesnt matter: The truth is that men just want to fuck you. That's all they are interested in. If they couldn't fuck us, they wouldn't have us.


OK ... shy and I are friends, so I'm sticking up for my friend.

Please note that she said "many women carry the notion", not "I carry the notion." Don't crack on her for saying that ... if you must crack on someone, crack on me instead, because I'm the one that said it to her in the first place. ha-ha!

Perhaps a bit jaded, but that's really the whole point. I think most of the time both sides of the relationship mutually fuck it up, before it ever gets started ... usually knowing they are doing it but not being able to get past the pain that makes it inevitable.

This really isn't all that different from all the posts you read about how many fakers there are on the internet, when it comes to relationships, honesty, abuse, whatever ... and express by implication that its best to look on these things with a wary eye.

In both these instances, the experiences of the past are clouding any chance at the future. Why should relationships be any different ... and why don't people see that?

Well the second part of that question is easy enough to answer. Just look at some of the people responding in the (somewhat) negative to shy's post here ... that carry the exact opposite view when you look at the various "faker" posts. It becomes obvious that the problem is so complicated that people just can't figure it out. I know I can't.

In closing, don't be too shocked that many women want the exact same thing ... they just get there a little differently. [;)]

caitlyn



Lordandmaster -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 10:46:52 AM)

Now I no longer have any idea what this thread is about.

Sounds to me like it's about a whole lot of silly generalizations, and people getting upset and "sticking up for their friends" when those generalizations are exposed for what they are.



caitlyn -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 11:07:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Now I no longer have any idea what this thread is about.

Sounds to me like it's about a whole lot of silly generalizations, and people getting upset and "sticking up for their friends" when those generalizations are exposed for what they are.


I don't think anyone was upset. I'm certainly not. [:D]

"Many women" would not be a generalization. "All women, would be a generalization: "Most women" would be a generalization. "Many women", might mean two-hundred, out of billions. Nobody has exposed a generalization, just assigned one where one didn't exist.

As far as sticking up for a friend ... guilty as charged! [;)]



Lordandmaster -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 5:39:02 PM)

"DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST" is not a generalization?

"The truth is that men just want to fuck you. That's all they are interested in. If they couldn't fuck us, they wouldn't have us." That's not a generalization? (If "many women" truly "carry this notion," then many women are subordinating themselves to an asinine generalization.)

"Men dont particularly romanticize the lifestyle, yet woman seem to want romance." That's not a generalization either?

Come on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Nobody has exposed a generalization, just assigned one where one didn't exist.



Zenar -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 7:28:00 PM)

I had a girl once tell me some thing of this in her own words and they were quite true.

Men have two heads, one heart and just enough blood to be in one or two of those places at any one time.

Biologicly speaking we men have a ticking time bomb between our legs that is constantly seeking a nice dark hole to light up and explode in. Any one who tells you other wise had theirs cut off, it stopped working, or they are just not brave enough to admit to it. Now with that said, are we men proud of this fact? Well perhaps some are, most are not. If we were proud of this fact then their would not be so many of us denying that it is true! To quote my wife,

There are three kinds of men in this world, those that admit to it, those that lie about it, and those that have a problem with it.

Ok, so you are still reading? We men have this deep dark secret. We have a heart too! Dont tell any one, becouse we wont ever admit to it! We fall in love and as the one comedian said, "It sticks to us and wont come off damnit!". No! We kill animals and eat meat and climb mountains! Only girly man falls in love!

The real thing is the other head. No, not the one between out legs. Every once in a while blood actually gets into our real head, the one with the brian? Then it does not matter, Master, Domminant, submisive, slave, vanilla. Are we honorable? Or are we not? Do we have any sence of ethics or are we mearly animals? I'm not saying I am the knight in shining armor with the morals to match. A chrome breast plate just does not match my flog. But can we as men be true to our self, and true to others? There is where the answer lies.



caitlyn -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 9:08:22 PM)

ok lordandmaster, i'm not into doing the pick posts apart thing with you on this one .. u win.

im into my skyy right now and was justt truying to stick up for a friend. sorry if that bugged ya. :-)

the guys just want to fuck you thng was my line anyway so flame away or pile on or whtever. i was having a bad relationship day at the time, haha!

arent i fun when im drunk. ;-)



IronBear -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/6/2005 11:35:25 PM)

quote:

But can we as men be true to our self, and true to others? There is where the answer lies.


Never were truer words spoken. Thank you for that thought.



slavedesires -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/7/2005 2:12:26 AM)

thank you for your post Zenar.

agreed IronBear.

thank you so much my dearest Caitlyn

When sexual appetites, whether WIITWD or nilla, overcome and take over the person we are deep inside, it changes the course of relationship.

to quote another, i believe it was Faramir: (sorry if i am wrong)
Thank God for the madness of infatuation that let's us each take the wild leap of faith it takes to get to the center.


I pray that today, My heart might be pure, My mind clear, My spirit submissive, My body strong, My walk holy, and My service honorable.
~~shy



sirrand -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/7/2005 1:49:41 PM)

quote:

Ouch... do I detect a note of bitterness?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavedesires

Men dont particularly romanticize the lifestyle, yet woman seem to want romance and the getting to know you as in nilla before "playing" and leave the exploration of understanding the style of a Dom, to later after they "fall in love."


That's not true of all men or all doms. And not all women want romance either. Speaking for myself I won't play with someone I don't know. I prefer to begin with a friendship. And oddly enough, many of the submissive women I encounter either think that is weakness or assume that friendship means I'm not interested in anything else.

quote:

All we need do is browse profiles on CM to see this.


While you are browsing, take a look at all the profiles of women who just want to play. The sexual displays, the nudity, the long lists of their kinks and fetishes; yet the near or complete absence of any other interests outside of the lifestyle. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of male HNG on here, but there are quite a few women that fall into the category as well. When I look at profiles I look for three things initially... physical attraction (lets not kid ourselves here, I'm not going to persue someone I'm not attracted too, who would?), sincerity, and enough in their profile to give me some idea of who they are outside the lifestyle. I hardly look at their fetish interests, other than to note if there is anything that absolutely turns me off. Want to take a guess how few of the profiles I've seen actually fit into that? If you guessed "not many" give yourself a cookie.

quote:

Friendship, trust and respect comes with time and then......
But many women carry the notion, right or wrong doesnt matter: The truth is that men just want to fuck you. That's all they are interested in. If they couldn't fuck us, they wouldn't have us.


More's the pity because its just one more wall a man who really is interested in them has to batter down. Sometimes you women put yourselves so high up in ivory towers we just can't reach you no matter how sincere we are. And there are also a lot of women in this lifestyle who don't seem to know what to do with a man who does actually care about them, shows real affection, etc. I see more profiles of women wanting to be treated like objects by sadists who will simply use them than I do women who both want love and know how to accept it. BTW, before someone says it, I'm not saying being a sadist and loving is mutually exclusive, it isn't. But, looking at many of the profiles you get the impression that there are a number of women out there who have this fantasy image of this cruel, uncaring, sadistic dom who doesn't show affection and will simply use them. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own I guess. Personally, I don't consider myself a sadist but I have my moments when I absolutely am gleefully sadistic... I also happen to be caring, affectionate, and loving. These things are not mutually exclusive.

quote:

Someone told me recently: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST..THAT IS WHY WE ARE DOMS...WE WANNA PLAY.....lol
and if we find the right play partner we will have a relationship


I'd say most of us want to play... its just a question of how many of us would also like to have a relationship, either now or at some point.

quote:

So my question, i guess is, what comes first...the relationship or the play (yes after some trust and respect is established) because is it not basic (foundational) to this lifestyle to find out if the play part is even compatible with the relationship??


I think it really depends on the individuals and what their priorities are. Some are here just to play, of both genders. Some here are just wanna-be's who think this is an easy way to get laid, of both genders (though I'll grant that group is probably mostly men), some are just thrill seekers looking for some excitement (and this in my experience is mostly women). But there are also those of us who would very much like a solid relationship, and again of both genders.

Speaking for myself, I didn't write a near novel in my profile about who I am, why I am here, and what I seek, if all I wanted was just to get laid or play. If that's all I wanted there are easier and more direct ways than this web site.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

http://www.bardicheart.com


I am in accord with your sentiments and would like to correspond further.

Obedience is Bless to the one who serves.
Sir Rand



sirrand -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/7/2005 2:58:48 PM)

Pink stop beating yourself up for loving bad boys. It was just how your taste ran at the time. Since you have changed your taste then you will pick the right one for the moment. I'm sure if you could live your life over again you would still make the same choices. Bad boys were your cup of tea. Now you may like coffee. My suggestion is to upscale to flavored coffee. LOL Own your life and be glad you lived it. It is the only one you have.

When a many loves a woman he will do many things that are contrary to what he was like before, I think Percy Sledge had it right. But Dom/Masters are different they need to maintain a certain aloofness but their sub/slave knows when they are loved.

What comes first play, sex, relationships, love or romance? It is the role of the dice.
What ever it is you only have one question to ask yourself “Are we having fun yet?”
If the answer is no then you need to change the circumstance.

Obedience is Bless to the one who serves.
Sir Rand



LRODANDMASTER -> RE: DOMS DONT DO RELATIONSHIPS FIRST (8/7/2005 8:58:34 PM)

I THOGUHT THE SAYING WAS IGNERANCE IS BLESS

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirrand

Obedience is Bless to the one who serves.




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