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RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 8:39:19 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

No arguments there from me NG. There is a big difference though between peaceful protest and the disgrace that was the poll tax riots. 



The age old problem with peaceful protest is that politicians ignore peaceful protest. The violence of the poll tax riots and its subsequent medai coverage probably did more to persuade the Tories to think again than all the peaceful protests and the people willing to go to court for refusing to pay such a regressive tax. The anti-war Iraqi protest was the biggest protest in Britain's history yet it was completely ignoered. A little bit of rioting and we would probably not have so many dead soldiers and not have the blood spilt in Iraq on our nations's hands.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 8:43:31 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
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Status: offline 		A police chief constable has questioned the proliferation of  the DNA data base and the amount of CCTV cameras on the street and siad he didn't want to live in a police state. When a chief constable shows concern about the stat becoming a police state there is reason for concern.

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RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 8:49:51 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I think CCTV has been a vital tool for tracking terrorists though.




Yes it is but it is even a greater evil.    Look at the supposed live footage I have posted for the planes crashing into the wtc.  They were all faked.  In our face proof of what can and is being done with video today and how it is used for "those with resources" to commit fraud and have the public buy into it and even agree with it.

The problem with all those cctv's is that you can walk to the train station in 2000 and they can edit and cut it and claim you did it on 7/7!!   Declare that the cctv failed on 7/7, (sound familiar?), and a host of other fraud for the purposes of framing a patsy or a citizen.

DNA is even worse.  Once they get a sample of everyones DNA its a simple matter of who would we like to set up today.

Many people say "oh thats ok I have nothing to hide".   The problem is not only is it a nice tool to prevent citizen crime but it also is a nice tool to commit gov crime on a grand scale.







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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 9:00:06 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

PA - no RFID chip is needed since soon virtually everyone will be carrying a trackable cell phone. Here in the US they are currently setting up a system similar to the one in the UK used for cell phone tracking but it's taking longer to set up due to the greater area of coverage required. In most of the UK currently when you turn your GSM cell phone on it is instantly located and tagged. From that point UK police can actually track you even if you turn your cell phone off and leave it home. This is because there are so many cell phones and each one acts like a tiny radar transmitter. This creates a sort of continuous signal "fog" but the signals bounce off your body so your own body becomes a hole in the fog. This hole can actually be tracked by computers in real time 3D. So after you turn on your phone and by doing so identify yourself, they can still track your movements even if you leave the phone behind. This system has been in place and functional in the UK for years and the intelligence/law enforcement types here in the US can't wait to have it operational here as well.


There are several companies offering a tracking system. Privacy laws state that the owner has to agree to it. However it is NOT possible to track anyone unless the phone is switched on, and they have it with them.
If they dont have the phone, or have it switched on, what sends the signal ?

Edits to add, i did read your post but this seems very far fetched. How would the signal tell which body it passes is or is not a phone owner ?

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 10/7/2007 9:03:24 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 9:15:07 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

There are several companies offering a tracking system. Privacy laws state that the owner has to agree to it. However it is NOT possible to track anyone unless the phone is switched on, and they have it with them.
If they dont have the phone, or have it switched on, what sends the signal ?



and what about when governments are above the law?

FBI has found a way to monitor your conversations through your cell phone even if it is turned off and your not using it.

http://www.filecabi.net/video/slippingaway5r.html


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 9:24:10 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Real, so are all the cctv images you put up faked ?

I think with the house of lords there was a great chance to reform it, sadly it was misused and we had the cash for peerages scandal, along with cronies being voted in. The flaw with the inherited system was it mainly went to moneyed families. So an elected body seems a great way forward, sadly that has the biggest flaw of all. People would vote the same way for the Lords as for the Commons. Who would vote for one conservative and the other labour. So you end up with both the lower and upper house flying the same flag. I feel that the only proper way is to have a fully independent body making the choices.


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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 9:29:46 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

There are several companies offering a tracking system. Privacy laws state that the owner has to agree to it.


I dont see any protection in owner agreement.

The government can simply say to the cellphone companies and networks that they must provide trackability, and these companies must include an agreement clause to this is in their contracts.

Dont agree to being tracked? Dont have a cellphone.

And on that subject, I wonder how long before we have cellphone tax, along the lines of TV licence? Then we can harass those who choose not to have one - for it doesnt seem that cost is any issue when it comes to cellphones, even the poorest have them - to encourage take up via knocks on the door and fines.

E

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 9:35:41 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Real, so are all the cctv images you put up faked ?


I certainly wont get up on the soap box and say it is impossible however who has the means, purpose and motive?  The guy with his 500 buck camcorder who has no clue how to edit video and could care less or some corporate/government scrating each others backs for their mutual best interest.    (do you want that interview for the next presidential scoop?)  Then you play ball or go back to the bull pen and the other guy gets the scoop.

If you have watched as many vids as I have, from my experience most of the home vids are very clear while those provided in conection with media were not.  (edited)

I posted a fox video with collaboration showing a plane flying through the building and blowing it up and i also posted photos of the other side of the building which shows there was no hole in it.

To some people even that is not proof of video fraud.

The more tools governments have to protect us the more tools they have to use against us to extort tax money.  same in the uk.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 9:45:49 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		So how would we ever know which video is fake, surley is just as easy to fake any part of any video. Especially with computerised technology as used for the cinema. My point isn`t that the video you posted is fake, it`s that it could be fake and we have no way to be sure.

I was pleased to note you used a Fox video about the phones eavesdropping though.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 10:41:28 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

So how would we ever know which video is fake, surley is just as easy to fake any part of any video. Especially with computerised technology as used for the cinema. My point isn`t that the video you posted is fake, it`s that it could be fake and we have no way to be sure.

I was pleased to note you used a Fox video about the phones eavesdropping though.



That is the problem.   Who is lying.  Its unfortuinate that all the work that has been done by so many regarding government fraud is swept under the table by so many.

There is so much coming out now days it is overwhelming with one of my all time favorites being the actual top secret northwoods documents that should prove to all alive that governments do lets say very nasty things to their own citizens.

Dont take my word for it read it all for yourself:

Operation Northwoods

Many videos are taken by people and turned over to the news and once property rights are signed over they do what they want, edit cut paste etc, cherry pick and present only parts that further the point they want to portray even if totally misrepresenting the actual story.

I agree anything can be faked but only those who have something to gain are willing to do it.

Now back to the uk thing,  From my pessimistic trusting state of mind in regard to government I am sure they will never abuse that database they have on you all.  (hows that for double think?  LOL

With these kinds of tools in the hands of government who can go far beyond any mafia has ever dreamed of going. with these tools in their hands, and the ability to rope off an area under police gaurd such that no one else can see the crime scene, stacked investigations, the ability to write law as they wish to support whatever they wish at the specific time, the ability to declare evidence as a national secret and on and on....

How do you feel about your government having this database and that much power in the same sentence?


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/7/2007 10:44:49 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 11:05:46 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I actually have a sub streak LadyE: so you decide.
Is there any Rugby on the tele. ?

Well, I'm more than qualified - I speak German badly, rant and rave fairly frequently.
When I'm running the country, rugby will be banned.E

You have my vote then. Could you ban football too???

Just like a well rounded female bottom can bamboozle some men  I always thought footballers thighs and Rugby forwards faces and lack of teeth gave some Ladies  a bit of a hot flush. lol
Even I can see that Johnny Wotsisname (Wilkinson?) is not half bad. lol

Meine Fuehrerin I thought your German was better than "badly". Nicht wahr?

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RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 11:07:14 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

There is a big difference though between peaceful protest and the disgrace that was the poll tax riots.



...were you there Politesub? Because i was, the violence occured not because a bunch of unruly people wanted a riot.......it occured as a consequence of appalling police management of the crowd. i, personally, had to help a mother with child over a barrier while a copper shouted at me to leave her on the side she was on....a side that was being crushed by mounted coppers. It was a disgrace, but the shame lies on the side of the police.

Yours

An eye witness.

(edited for poor spelling)

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 11:32:09 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Just like a well rounded female bottom can bamboozle some men  I always thought footballers thighs and Rugby forwards faces and lack of teeth gave some Ladies  a bit of a hot flush. lol
Even I can see that Johnny Wotsisname (Wilkinson?) is not half bad. lol

Meine Fuehrerin I thought your German was better than "badly". Nicht wahr?


Well, its true I believe about the rugby and football players, but the point isnt their aesthetic effect, its that the game is daft.

My German is OK Seeks. I caught him the other week and though he put up some initial resistance he seems happy enough now. I might even put another foot in his chain if he keeps progressing as he is.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 11:41:35 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Who said anything about Aesthetics.
I was thinking primal urges.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 11:51:40 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Who said anything about Aesthetics.
I was thinking primal urges.


Dearest Seeks - animals have instincts, men have primal urges. Ladies enjoy aethetic inspiration.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 12:31:28 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

...were you there Politesub? Because i was, the violence occured not because a bunch of unruly people wanted a riot.......it occured as a consequence of appalling police management of the crowd. i, personally, had to help a mother with child over a barrier while a copper shouted at me to leave her on the side she was on....a side that was being crushed by mounted coppers. It was a disgrace, but the shame lies on the side of the police.

Yours

An eye witness.

(edited for poor spelling)


It`s easy to blame police heavy handedness for the rioting, some people were there with the express intention of causing chaos. Some just decoded to join in for the fun of it, some joined in out of anger at the police. Whatever the reasons it was unexcusable.

Oddly enough i was also there intially, i worked on the construction site that had the Portacabins burnt down. The main march arrived after we had gone home for the day.

I agree though that it`s fair to say crowd control, or lack of it, certainly opened the floodgates. Maybe the whole thing could have been avoided if the police had let the orgainisers, mainly militant tendency, move the march to Hyde Park once they themselves realised the crowd would be too big for a rally at the square.


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RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 12:38:38 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Real...I had heard about operation Northwoods before, although a few rogue generals isnt the same as the US governement. I have no doubt things like this ( unauthorized events ) still take place in almost every Country on the planet, mine included

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RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 12:43:06 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		that must have been why the Rodney King -trial- in LA went arye.

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RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 1:02:38 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I wouldnt be at all surprised if the police deployed for the poll tax protests went there with a certain mindset. After all, they would have been the same officers who'd spent time breaking skulls during the miners' strike, when it seems, orders had been issued to that effect.

Its odd, when Thatcher came into power the first thing she did was increase pay and conditions for the armed forces and police. The cynic in me says thats what one does when one needs to rely on force to pursue one's policies.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: UK Already a Police State? - 10/7/2007 2:23:23 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Don`t forget the wapping dispute, then again Grunwick took place under labour as i recall.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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