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RE: Quick Question - 10/21/2007 7:30:30 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Plenty of people don't want to be responsible or mature or stable- and many of them find "submission" to be a very good way to hide from all of that, there are plenty of savior doms more than willing to feed into the fantasy of lack of responsibility.  It works for awhile at least.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Quick Question - 10/21/2007 7:30:42 PM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Do you think that a person in the Role of Dominance is responsible for helping a sub to overcome thier emotional baggage?


No.

It's kind of like the joke:  How many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb?  One, but the lightbulb really has to WANT to change.

It's not the Role of the Dominant to help a submissive in that way.  It might come out as part of the D/s relationship.  But the true responsibility for change (with anybody, Dom, sub, vanilla, purple, whatever) lays with the person themselves.

Just my .02

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Quick Question - 10/21/2007 8:05:46 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

I agree with the others here that it depends entirely upon what is desired by both, and, whether the dominanat is qualified to help.

On the flip side of this, I find it amusing when I see a dominant who is enchanted with the idea of "owning" a slave... drools at the notion of a slave being at their beck and call to do whatever they wish... but then balks at the idea of true responsibility for another human being. 

..My thoughts exactly, and wonderfully stated Treasure!..Tempting

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You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Quick Question - 10/21/2007 8:16:40 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Plenty of people don't want to be responsible or mature or stable- and many of them find "submission" to be a very good way to hide from all of that, there are plenty of savior doms more than willing to feed into the fantasy of lack of responsibility.  It works for awhile at least.


Until the Top gets tired of the constant backsliding, and just tosses in the towel. And get added to the bagage himself-as another "abuser".

Aren't victim complexes AMUSING?

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Quick Question - 10/21/2007 8:50:02 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Personally I feel sick of the phrase, 'baggage'. It turns 'it' into something separate. We are entire beings. We do help each other and we do all have issues. Some people talk as tho they are on top of it all but come across to me as, judgmental, blaming, very angry and intolerant. I realize we are responsible for our own selves, our perceptions and feelings. We are at a state of imbalance pretty much all around the world. Some are more damaged than others and some are more intolerant than others too. Some folks reflect things that suck to see/feel to us and others, or at other times reflect warm and uplifting things.

I have been taught, and it makes sense to me, that if it triggers you that much you have personal involvement in it. If you didnt have unhealed bits, the emotional response would be less charged. These triggers help notify us of what it is that we are holding and which needs movement.

Seems to me we are interconnected so the best thing would to be as real as we can. If each of us did that I think we will be okay. Don't hurt yourself and don't hurt others and be yourself.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Quick Question - 10/21/2007 9:32:23 PM   
LDRandAstarte


Posts: 504
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Do you think that a person in the Role of Dominance is responsible for helping a sub to overcome thier emotional baggage?


We, of course, can only answer for ourselves.
No. In fact we would not even accept a sub who is bringing emotional baggage into our relationship. If the sub is going to colour our relationship with shades of her past failures she has already failed here again, goodbye.

edited to add; That was not meant to say that the past failures were her fault, just that if those failures are brought along to influence this new relationship, regardless of whose fault they were.

< Message edited by LDRandAstarte -- 10/21/2007 9:35:07 PM >

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(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Quick Question - 10/21/2007 9:37:08 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Do you think that a person in the Role of Dominance is responsible for helping a sub to overcome thier emotional baggage?


In reading various posts in this thread, I begin to question what exactly we are discussing when we say "emotional baggage".

What makes something "baggage"?


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Quick Question - 10/21/2007 9:46:18 PM   
kokonut


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		It really depends on the baggage. I don't think it's the responsibility of a dom to cure the insane, but if the girl [or boy] in question was in a bad relationship and has a desire to put work into fixing themselves then I do believe that to a reasonable extent it is the part of the dom to offer guidance. There's crazy people out there who are more than happy to let someone else take care of all of their problems, and there are people who have a desire to better themselves. If it is a case of the latter, I would think it the responsibility of any partner, dom or vanilla, to offer some kind of assistance. [hehe i totally just said ass ^_^ ]

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 5:20:39 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Do you think that a person in the Role of Dominance is responsible for helping a sub to overcome thier emotional baggage?


if the sub asks for help, the dominant can decide to if they wish.

i dont expect that Daddy should help me to overcome my issues.  i do think its my responsibility to own up to my issues, and to make Daddy aware of ones that could rear their ugly heads when we are together.  its then his choice as to take me on as his submissive or not.

kitten, who has a few issues....

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 7:06:13 AM   
meticulousgirl


Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		If it is someone that you think is worth your time or could be once the issues have dealt with yes.  To an extent everyone has their days and issues it's just figuring out the best possible remedy to get the sub out of that mindset.

As a Dominant it's your choice it may just be an issue of minor insecurities that seem bigger than what they really are.

If a sub or slave has been abused for x amount of time is it really fair to not be accepting and help him or her through a process that is already difficult enough, why add on more difficulty because they were not treated with any respect whatsoever for x amount of time.  If it were me i would not only want to help them but i would find a way.  Theres ways to help without opening your wallet if that's where you are coming from....

~meticulous~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 7:41:08 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

No. In fact we would not even accept a sub who is bringing emotional baggage into our relationship. If the sub is going to colour our relationship with shades of her past failures she has already failed here again, goodbye.


Certainly, anyone entering into a relationship in an effort to heal some past trauma would not make a fitting slave (or dominant, for that matter).

However, it strikes me as rather counterproductive to expect any prospective slave to have attained Zen-like self-awareness before considering her.

All else being equal, and provided the slave is willing to accept final responsibility for her feelings and state of mind, I personally would prefer extend some tolerance.  After all, if I've initiated a relationship, I want that relationship to thrive and prosper--ditching the slave at the first sign of complication flies in the face of that.


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 7:45:08 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		I can't fix anyone,nor is that my job, but hopefully I can create an environment where they feel capable and comfortable trying to overcome whatever it is that is hindering them.But then again, I would do this for anyone I care about, its called compassion.


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 7:53:07 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
I can't fix anyone,nor is that my job, but hopefully I can create an environment where they feel capable and comfortable trying to overcome whatever it is that is hindering them.But then again, I would do this for anyone I care about, its called compassion.


Very well said!


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 8:13:48 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Compassion is a good quality-for those who actually deserve it.

In others-it only serves an enabling dynamic to be perpetuated.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 8:47:34 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Because if yoy cannot slay that dragon yourself-the knight sure as hell can't.


awww c'mon just a little tinsy whinsy help.......please? big bad dragon singed my eyelashes..........

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 9:01:08 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Do you think that a person in the Role of Dominance is responsible for helping a sub to overcome thier emotional baggage?


Sorry RRafe here is my serious answer;
there are many qualities in a submissive. Those I can tolerate in others and foster within myself are: a willingness and an ability to serve, committment, openess, even if that means admitting fears, and boundaries, meaning that they are aware of where their edges are and I don't have to provide.

What i cannot tolerate in others and therefore work very hard to eradicate in myself are; inherent low self worth, guilt, blame, and shame. Cannot stand to punish another for their perceived internal failings.

But I also feel it is imposssible to separate emotional issues from physical and intellectual. No-one is divided up into boxes and I doubt those who can sinply play at bdsm in role let's say without any emotional invovlement in the long term.

Do i sense also that you have had a run in with needy submission then?

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 9:49:01 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Compassion is a good quality-for those who actually deserve it.

In others-it only serves an enabling dynamic to be perpetuated.


A bit of a tautology, that.  True enough as far as it goes....but opens the door to the question of whom is "deserving".

To my mind, if I choose to get involved with someone, that is enough to merit some compassion from me, at least as a starting proposition.  Whether the compassion remains, depends on how the relationship evolves.


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 10:36:37 AM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think it's their responsiblity but I think that emotional baggage can be part of a relationship for both Dominant and submissive.

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"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 12:02:52 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Plenty of people don't want to be responsible or mature or stable- and many of them find "submission" to be a very good way to hide from all of that, there are plenty of savior doms more than willing to feed into the fantasy of lack of responsibility.  It works for awhile at least.


Until the Top gets tired of the constant backsliding, and just tosses in the towel. And get added to the bagage himself-as another "abuser".

Aren't victim complexes AMUSING?


Think its funny that most comments are aimed at the subs 'baggage' all human beings have a past, its what makes them who they are i think. Ive never met a person be them Dom, sub, animal or mineral who doesnt have their own personal demons and this idea that sub means weak and Dom means totally together is a silly one and shouldnt be perpetuated. Any person entering a relationship has to be aware of past issues and be considerate of them or else why enter the relationshop, if you as a person cant accept them then move on from because otherwise you are bound to add to it. Simply telling someone to get over something wont work. If you enter into a relationship knowing the problems, and then expect them to vanish and then when they dont 'throwing in the towel' then really you are adding to it and its not simply a victim complex. Some people are stornger than others this much is true and when we are at our lowest we are also at our weakest and most likely to trust more easily ina  desperate attempt to make things better. If the person who allows this, who sees it and then carries on anyway i always think its taking advantage. Of course no one wears a sign saying i have issues but its a case of each person deciding what they can cope with personally.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 12:17:15 PM   
WhipLash803


Posts: 16
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		HOLY CRAP!!! This is such a very true statement, both regarding subs and Doms. It does "work" for a while and then quickly evolves into the totally unhealthy, co-dependent, passive aggressive dynamic that has become the "hallmark" of modern "new leather" D/s relationships. The accessibility through the Internet has made BDSM florish...but it has also allowed every addict, sociopath, predator and "nutjob" of every description to "hide" within the D/s ranks. Because they know D/s is so far out on the "fringe" of social acceptablity...everyone is afraid to bring attention to their "craziness" in fear that they themselves will be pointed out publicly....and yes "nutjob" is an approved medical definition

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 60
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