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RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 12:38:40 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Do you think that a person in the Role of Dominance is responsible for helping a sub to overcome thier emotional baggage?


Quick answer...no.  I've stated before that I am not a therapist and I don't play one on T.V. or in my relationships.  If baggage comes up that I am not responsible for, I will offer support and guidance in the form of listening and getting her to the properly trained counselor and exhibiting patience as she works through it.  But to bear the brunt of what someone else has created and that the submissive has not dealt with yet?  No.

Now...if he wants to assume that responsibility and is qualified to do so, then go for it.  Personally, I would not and will not. 

Someone asked me about the following...if they balked and said "No, I want to see if I can deal with it on my own", my first question would be "How long has this existed or when did it start?"  If the answer is "A year (or longer) ago", then my next response would be "But you HAVE NOT dealt with it and now it is time to do so" and then take them to a therapist.  That may sound harsh but I have found that humans are great procrastinators, especially when it comes to seeking care...whether it be for a physical problem, a spiritual problem, an emotional problem or a mental problem.  They think that they can eventually make it go away on their own or with the "love and understanding" of a partner but, after having been the partner of several who thought that...and I went along with them, remember I have said that I used to have more than a bit of the white knight in me...and still having it not any better 2-3-4 years later, then for me...no more.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 12:41:46 PM   
WhipLash803


Posts: 16
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		Any person that considers a D/s relationship, Dom or sub...damn sure better have an "almost" Zen like sense of self-awareness. This D/s type of relationship has the potential for being the most unhealthy and destructive of them all...without each person having a full and well contemplated sense of self-awareness, self-identity and your connection and place with God/Higher Power (however you personally define that), The Universe, your fellow man, your community, your acquaintances, your friends, your family, your "partner" and most importantly...YOURSELF! If you don't have these things, you are in for one heck of a long and bumpy road. I'm not saying it's impossible to end up with a happy and healthy relationship if you AND your partner aren't fully self aware, self-identified and share a matching sense of "reality"....just that the chance ranks right up there with winning the "Lottery"!!


quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

No. In fact we would not even accept a sub who is bringing emotional baggage into our relationship. If the sub is going to colour our relationship with shades of her past failures she has already failed here again, goodbye.


Certainly, anyone entering into a relationship in an effort to heal some past trauma would not make a fitting slave (or dominant, for that matter).

However, it strikes me as rather counterproductive to expect any prospective slave to have attained Zen-like self-awareness before considering her.

All else being equal, and provided the slave is willing to accept final responsibility for her feelings and state of mind, I personally would prefer extend some tolerance.  After all, if I've initiated a relationship, I want that relationship to thrive and prosper--ditching the slave at the first sign of complication flies in the face of that.


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 1:52:41 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Let's forget the romantic concept of "total surrender" here for a few minutes.

No matter WHAT a Top tries-if the bottom does not cooperate with the program of losing the unhappy stuff-but insists on indulging in it-no matter the cost.

NOTHING you can do will make any difference. You cannot be responsible for one who refuses to be responsible to THEMSELVES.


Same holds true for tops who hold no job, live in their mothers' basements, and look to move in with a sub who will turn over all their income to him, do all the housework etc.

Actually, the refusal to get professional help for problems you can't fix yourself is where I always draw the line. Fucked up your taxes and are being audited? I'll give you the name of a top notch tax accountant. Have a legal issue, go find a lawyer who specializes in that field. Emotional problems, get assessed for problems by a good psychologist, and get referrals for psychiatrists if the assessment is anything that can be medically treated as well as follow through on your therapy. Major house problems? Time to get a team of architect, structural engineer and good contractor involved.

Go to the right people, find out what you ought to be doing and then do it.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 2:14:17 PM   
fire6brand


Posts: 6
Joined: 5/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I can't figure out why it's so often assumed that the sub has emotional baggage and that the dom is qualified to "fix" it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25


*bang* ain't that the truth.

Most people have some baggage...to put a different spin on it, we can call it experience, which comes in both positive and negative. Communicating that "baggage" is pretty important when triggering that "baggage" blindly is something I personally don't want to happen.










< Message edited by fire6brand -- 10/22/2007 2:15:11 PM >

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 3:40:59 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		nope; that's what therapists are paid to do!

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 3:47:36 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipLash803

Any person that considers a D/s relationship, Dom or sub...damn sure better have an "almost" Zen like sense of self-awareness.



Nine out of ten owners say they prefer them. It's the one who almost answers the questionnaire that screws with your data every time.

Almost Zen? Thaat's like what's the sound of an almost whiplash.....?????????

(in reply to WhipLash803)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 4:01:06 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds

nope; that's what therapists are paid to do!

In personal relationship my relationships are proportionally inverse: I will carry baggage and the heavier the load the freer i become.
In a professional relationship the nature of it is directly proportional. Give me your baggae to sort emotionally and I will charge. The more I sort the more I charge.. .....

In simple terms I am a very expensive therapist but a very cheap date.


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 10/22/2007 4:04:19 PM >

(in reply to daddysliloneds)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 5:49:44 PM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipLash803

Any person that considers a D/s relationship, Dom or sub...damn sure better have an "almost" Zen like sense of self-awareness. This D/s type of relationship has the potential for being the most unhealthy and destructive of them all...without each person having a full and well contemplated sense of self-awareness, self-identity and your connection and place with God/Higher Power (however you personally define that), The Universe, your fellow man, your community, your acquaintances, your friends, your family, your "partner" and most importantly...YOURSELF! If you don't have these things, you are in for one heck of a long and bumpy road. I'm not saying it's impossible to end up with a happy and healthy relationship if you AND your partner aren't fully self aware, self-identified and share a matching sense of "reality"....just that the chance ranks right up there with winning the "Lottery"!!




Hmmm...what about people who find these relationships to be MORE healthy for them than "safe" vanilla relationships?

Actually that gives me an idea for a post so i won't continue here.

In answer to the OP i would say simply no. Of course it's not as simple as that.

I would actually say that it is the responsibility of the Dominant NOT to take on the role of therapist unless he or she is qualified. A lot of damage can be done when someone who does not know what they're doing tries to "fix" emotional problems. Master has made it very clear that he will be forever patient as i work through some issues that inevitably affect our relationship but that he is not going to "fix" them for me. By listening and creating a safe environment in which i know i am cared for he has already helped me immensely. Beyond that i seek answers to my inner struggles from no one but myself. The idea that one person can "fix" another is ridiculous in my mind. Master and i listen to each other's emotions and fears because we want to, not because we have to. The love we share may in fact bring me to a more healthy place within myself but only because his love helps me find the strength to move on from things in the past. Not because he shoulders my problems for me.

charlotte

_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to WhipLash803)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 7:45:08 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotte12

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipLash803

Any person that considers a D/s relationship, Dom or sub...damn sure better have an "almost" Zen like sense of self-awareness. This D/s type of relationship has the potential for being the most unhealthy and destructive of them all...without each person having a full and well contemplated sense of self-awareness, self-identity and your connection and place with God/Higher Power (however you personally define that), The Universe, your fellow man, your community, your acquaintances, your friends, your family, your "partner" and most importantly...YOURSELF! If you don't have these things, you are in for one heck of a long and bumpy road. I'm not saying it's impossible to end up with a happy and healthy relationship if you AND your partner aren't fully self aware, self-identified and share a matching sense of "reality"....just that the chance ranks right up there with winning the "Lottery"!!




Hmmm...what about people who find these relationships to be MORE healthy for them than "safe" vanilla relationships?

Actually that gives me an idea for a post so i won't continue here.

In answer to the OP i would say simply no. Of course it's not as simple as that.

I would actually say that it is the responsibility of the Dominant NOT to take on the role of therapist unless he or she is qualified. A lot of damage can be done when someone who does not know what they're doing tries to "fix" emotional problems. Master has made it very clear that he will be forever patient as i work through some issues that inevitably affect our relationship but that he is not going to "fix" them for me. By listening and creating a safe environment in which i know i am cared for he has already helped me immensely. Beyond that i seek answers to my inner struggles from no one but myself. The idea that one person can "fix" another is ridiculous in my mind. Master and i listen to each other's emotions and fears because we want to, not because we have to. The love we share may in fact bring me to a more healthy place within myself but only because his love helps me find the strength to move on from things in the past. Not because he shoulders my problems for me.

charlotte


Excellent response. To think one can "mold" someone's internal landscape is truly arrogant. And terribly ridiculous.......Offer some support and acceptance? Perfect.

But that's the most ANY of us can really do. Roles matter not-it's in the caring-but not enabling.

That's where *I* draw the line in the sand.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to charlotte12)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 9:26:41 PM   
LadyLegs


Posts: 176
Status: offline 		Never sleep with some crazier than you are... unless they are securely chained

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Quick Question - 10/22/2007 9:50:11 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLegs

Never sleep with some crazier than you are... unless they are securely chained


Not even. Ever been whapped upside of the head with a big old padlock? I have,and she was just rolling over in her sleep. Goddamn,the briuse lasted for a week.

Diapered and CAGED maybe-and with locking bondage mittens-in another locked room.

THEN I might feel safe with someone crazier than me-cuz that would be insanity of a considerable nature.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to LadyLegs)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Quick Question - 10/23/2007 5:59:45 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheChauvinist

(FR)

No. It's not my profession to "fix" people. I would no more want to have a partner that needs "fixing" as I would one that thinks I need to be "fixed".



I strongly agree with this.  However i can also agree that we are never truly free of our emotional baggage.. It's my opinion that it makes us who we are, the key is not letting it become our burden, or stop us from living happily and healthily.

(in reply to TheChauvinist)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Quick Question - 10/23/2007 7:11:36 AM   
TheChauvinist


Posts: 76
Joined: 10/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

However i can also agree that we are never truly free of our emotional baggage.. It's my opinion that it makes us who we are, the key is not letting it become our burden, or stop us from living happily and healthily.
I agree with you as well. I would add into your statement "or our partners" where you say our in the last half of your last sentence.

(in reply to spankmepink11)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Quick Question - 10/23/2007 8:07:12 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheChauvinist

quote:

However i can also agree that we are never truly free of our emotional baggage.. It's my opinion that it makes us who we are, the key is not letting it become our burden, or stop us from living happily and healthily.
I agree with you as well. I would add into your statement "or our partners" where you say our in the last half of your last sentence.


You can wallow in it-or deal with it-therin lies the difference.



_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to TheChauvinist)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Quick Question - 10/24/2007 11:17:33 AM   
LadyLegs


Posts: 176
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLegs

Never sleep with some crazier than you are... unless they are securely chained


Not even. Ever been whapped upside of the head with a big old padlock? I have,and she was just rolling over in her sleep. Goddamn,the briuse lasted for a week.

Diapered and CAGED maybe-and with locking bondage mittens-in another locked room.

THEN I might feel safe with someone crazier than me-cuz that would be insanity of a considerable nature.


Ahhh... then the R stands for raving?

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Quick Question - 10/24/2007 12:06:35 PM   
wisteriaV


Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline 		First of all Master is NOT the end all and be all of perfection. He is human like the rest of us, makes mistakes and omg yes his farts can stink especially after eating limburger cheese.He can take care of any baggage emotional or otherwise. I have to be willing  and wanting to take care of it. He may be Master but I am still responsible for my behaviors and actions wheather it comes from baggage or not!

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to LadyLegs)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Quick Question - 10/24/2007 12:59:30 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Depends on the circumstnces.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to LadyLegs)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Quick Question - 10/24/2007 1:09:38 PM   
wisteriaV


Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline 		Okok RRafe Sir..so the punisher has at times altered undesirable behaviors..I so hate wooden spoons!

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Quick Question - 10/24/2007 1:38:49 PM   
AEslaveM


Posts: 126
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		"Valyraen has helped me, but only by being who he is. It was not something we intended to happen, only a happy by-product of being in a healthy relationship. "

What she said..............Master has helped me without either of us being aware of it happening...............


_____________________________

M


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Quick Question - 10/24/2007 2:10:45 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Plenty of people don't want to be responsible or mature or stable- and many of them find "submission" to be a very good way to hide from all of that, there are plenty of savior doms more than willing to feed into the fantasy of lack of responsibility.  It works for awhile at least.


Until the Top gets tired of the constant backsliding, and just tosses in the towel. And get added to the bagage himself-as another "abuser".

Aren't victim complexes AMUSING?



Somewhere along the line I get the sense you have been in this situation as a dom personally


, therefore causing the very  strong opinion you currently have that you seem to feel the need to frequently post about

.    If so,  that then becomes your emotional baggage --- intense feelings  which  stems from a negative experience.........   Just something to think about  




_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 80
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