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RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 3:36:38 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigjohnson

Fargle...you are the kind of person that everyone hates to be in a conversation with because you always have to try and make a point even if it is ludicrous. Someone had to call in security otherwise they would never have gone in there to apprehend him.


FOR WHAT CRIME EXACTLY? Maybe DUE PROCESS is a bit of an alien concept these days, but you need to, you know, actually BE ARRESTED before you can resist it.

So -- Who was the complainant and what was the charge?

Or was he just being abducted by people acting unlawfully, UNDER COLOR OF LAW?

If someone tries to "Escort" your daughter somewhere she doesn't want to go, AND THE OTHER PERSON HAS NO LAWFUL REASON TO TAKE THEM INTO CUSTODY, what should your daughter do? Just go with the abductor?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to bigjohnson)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 4:34:43 PM   
bigjohnson


Posts: 43
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline 		The daughter analogy was not the best, considering this was involving a political demonstration where the young man was clearly out of hand. You can argue about this all day long if you like and no one will be happy with what comes at the end of the day.

What would you have done if you were giving a speech and someone started acting the way he did?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 4:38:07 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I believe it's under the Florida penal code
Section 555, "Being an annoying fucking pain in the ass."
Or is that Section 556?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 10/26/2007 4:39:06 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to bigjohnson)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 4:45:39 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I believe it's under the Florida penal code
Section 555, "Being an annoying fucking pain in the ass."
Or is that Section 556?


LOL popeye

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 4:50:51 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Level, I'll bet you money that Fargle's never stepped on a crack on the sidewalk without consulting an attorney.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 5:44:53 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigjohnson

The funny thing about this whole video is...he resisted when he was being asked to leave by the security/police whatever you guys want to call them. That is justification enough in some states for arrest. Initially he was not under arrest, just being escorted out of the hall by security. Obviously security was called by the speaker or the officers would not have moved in. If he would have peacefully exited the hall instead of insisting on making a scene none of this would have happened and he would not be famous for "don't tase me bro"

I think the little guy deserved it for resisting. If I was asked to leave somewhere and security came up to me and escorted me out of a building I would definitely not resist. Maybe thats because I know when to stop.



Thank god someone else notices this. We've got a million dumbasses running around claiming that this guy was tased "because he asked a question."

That's not true at all. He was tased after the fact for resisting arrest. Now, whether or not the tasing was justified, or if he was indeed resisting arrest, that's not my point. I'm simply saying that the whole assertion that he was tased because he asked a question is wrong.

(in reply to bigjohnson)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 5:54:08 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigjohnson

The daughter analogy was not the best, considering this was involving a political demonstration where the young man was clearly out of hand. You can argue about this all day long if you like and no one will be happy with what comes at the end of the day.

What would you have done if you were giving a speech and someone started acting the way he did?


If his actions rise to the status of Crimes, then by all means he should be arrested.

So, we're back to my question: Exactly what crime was committed by the asshole? And whom was the complainant?

You cannot be resisting an arrest, without, you know, being arrested FOR SOMETHING.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/26/2007 5:57:22 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to bigjohnson)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 5:58:53 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Level, I'll bet you money that Fargle's never stepped on a crack on the sidewalk without consulting an attorney.


Why would I ever consult an attorney? I'm fully able to read the relevant codes in any situation, and unless I need someone to speak on my behalf, rest assured their qualifications will be more of the sort, "So, you play poker with the Judge, eh?"



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/26/2007 6:43:50 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Meyer has been charged by police for resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, but the State Attorney’s Office has not yet decided whether to file formal charges.

The article clearly says they were Univeristy of Florida Police (but its MSNBC so who knows).

I feel the Police were well within thier rights to escort him out of the event.  It was not a public event, and he had no right to disrupt it.  Every other students rights and part of the reason they attend the University was being taken away from them by Myers.  As was pointed out he was tazed after he began resisting the Officers lawfull ejection. 

The police were not taking him anywhere, except out of the Private event he was disrupting, so the daughter analogy is not applicable.  A form of the castle doctrine is in effect here.  The officers were authorised by the private institution, to make such decisions on thier private property.  If your daughter is in a house disturbing the peace, you can most certainy have her ejected by the police, and it is not a volantary thing.  If lawfully ordered to leave, and she refuses, they have every right to use reasonable force to get her out, whether the home owner wants to press charges or not.  They most certainly can place thier hands on her before arresting her, if caught in the act of commiting a crime, as was the guy in this case. 

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 12:15:14 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Level, I'll bet you money that Fargle's never stepped on a crack on the sidewalk without consulting an attorney.


Why would I ever consult an attorney? I'm fully able to read the relevant codes in any situation, and unless I need someone to speak on my behalf, rest assured their qualifications will be more of the sort, "So, you play poker with the Judge, eh?"




Interesting...you rail on law enforcement for being corrupt but yet you yourself would take advantage of a corrupt attorney/judge?  Hello kettle...

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 12:45:35 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Since I was not around when this first came down, I will comment now...

Tazing can be fatal, just the fact that it can be fatal should suggest that it should not be used with the nonchalance that it often is used with.

Since the advent of so-called "non-lethal" weaponry designed for crowd control, or to subdue those out of "control", the police are more likely to pull out these measures than to try to talk someone down for a minute or two. Police rely on these tactics when they are completely unnecessary... such as any rational person can see on the video this thread references.

Police do not have to even talk to us anymore, they just taze us and let god sort it out, pretty freakin sad and dehumanizing.



yep that is exactly right!

Then to say it is within the guidelines once again shows us what our taxes are not paying for.

Force used was excessive and thoughtless expedience.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 2:14:22 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Meyer has been charged by police for resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, but the State Attorney’s Office has not yet decided whether to file formal charges.


So, there is no person FROM THE SHOW, who filed any charges? The moderator did not request him to be arrested for Disturbing the Peace? Hmmm... I wonder who gave the police permission to censor speakers based on their belief that the Peace was being Disturbed?

Anyone got a copy of the relevant Florida Code handy?

quote:



The article clearly says they were Univeristy of Florida Police (but its MSNBC so who knows).

I feel the Police were well within thier rights to escort him out of the event. It was not a public event, and he had no right to disrupt it. Every other students rights and part of the reason they attend the University was being taken away from them by Myers. As was pointed out he was tazed after he began resisting the Officers lawfull ejection.

The police were not taking him anywhere, except out of the Private event he was disrupting, so the daughter analogy is not applicable. A form of the castle doctrine is in effect here. The officers were authorised by the private institution, to make such decisions on thier private property. If your daughter is in a house disturbing the peace, you can most certainy have her ejected by the police, and it is not a volantary thing. If lawfully ordered to leave, and she refuses, they have every right to use reasonable force to get her out, whether the home owner wants to press charges or not. They most certainly can place thier hands on her before arresting her, if caught in the act of commiting a crime, as was the guy in this case.


Of course, in your example, YOU THE HOMEOWNER would MAKE THE DECISION AND FILE THE COMPLAINT.

I'm having a problem understanding how the Police can also be the Complainants?

Smacks of Censorship. The POLICE decided he needed to be removed, so the POLICE went to remove him, when he objected, then he got hit with the Disorderly Charge, to which he was then cited for Resisting?

No wonder the DA won't fucking touch the thing.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 2:16:15 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Since I was not around when this first came down, I will comment now...

Tazing can be fatal, just the fact that it can be fatal should suggest that it should not be used with the nonchalance that it often is used with.

Since the advent of so-called "non-lethal" weaponry designed for crowd control, or to subdue those out of "control", the police are more likely to pull out these measures than to try to talk someone down for a minute or two. Police rely on these tactics when they are completely unnecessary... such as any rational person can see on the video this thread references.

Police do not have to even talk to us anymore, they just taze us and let god sort it out, pretty freakin sad and dehumanizing.



yep that is exactly right!

Then to say it is within the guidelines once again shows us what our taxes are not paying for.

Force used was excessive and thoughtless expedience.




Remember when it was funny when ED-209 gave that guy 20 seconds BEFORE he shot him dead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0kWgcIlWn0

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/27/2007 2:17:03 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 2:30:26 AM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		No Farg the moderator of the event asked for him to be removed, the police did not decide to.  The moderator empowered by the University to run the event.  The police did not decide to do anything, they reacted to the disturbance and complaint.  But the University employs the Police to keep order on the campus, so the authority to decide who can be there has been delegated to them.

Do you really not understand how University police can make a complaint when they observe problem behavior?  Remember a University is private property, not public open to all.  The authoriyt to do so is delegated to them.  Do you understand that if you own a house, your wife (or  kids, or authorised guest)can still call in a complaint if a nieghbor is making a disturbance in your yard, and refusing to leave?  You don't understand that?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 8:13:50 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

Why would I ever consult an attorney? I'm fully able to read the relevant codes in any situation,


Many people belive that they are able to read arcane documents and codified doctrines, and come up with interpretations that suit their whims and wishes.

The ones whose beliefs in such matters don't carry as much weight in reality as they suppose, are sometimes called fundamentalists.

The ones who opinions not only matter in the real world, but are citeable, and earn them a six figure salary, are often called 'judges'.


(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 9:35:17 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

No Farg the moderator of the event asked for him to be removed, the police did not decide to.


Then the MODERATOR'S COMPLAINT is the basis for the Arrest.

Where's a copy of that? It would have been filed with the court.




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 10:05:13 AM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		 
No, the moderators complaint was the basis for removal from the private property.  Whether or not the Moderator wanted to file charges is not relevant in any way.  While the police were removing him he resisted.  A student does not have to be arrested to be removed from a class or event.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 10:05:33 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Not all Unis are private property.
Many are state unis. And supported with Taxpayer Dollars.
That's why I have a HUGE problem with them trying to deny Citizens their Second Amendment Rights!
They wouldn't think of putting up signs saying, "You may not excercise your First Amendment Rights while on this campus" would they?
Carrying a firearm is not a "priviledge" like a driver's liscense, it's a Right.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 10:10:02 AM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		State Universities are private property also.  They are not public, like a park.  A millitary base is not public property either, even though owned by the gov.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited - 10/27/2007 10:29:29 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1


No, the moderators complaint was the basis for removal from the private property. Whether or not the Moderator wanted to file charges is not relevant in any way. While the police were removing him he resisted. A student does not have to be arrested to be removed from a class or event.



"Resisted" in this case, means "Resisting Arrest". That means he was being arrested for something. What was that charge, and who was the complainant?

YOU suggested that it was the Moderator.

That's bullshit, as the MODERATOR would have just had the PA guy cut the microphone, and move right along.

I believe there was no Complainant.

Another case of -- Poorly Trained Cops Did The Wrong Thing. In this case of Poorly Trained Cops Doing The Wrong Thing, no-one died. In this case.

One of the reasons the DA isn't going to touch this case.

The only *REAL* "crime" the kid's "guilty" of is "Being an asshole", and, for good or bad, there's no law against being an asshole.


EDIT:



Ok, here's something...

http://www.alligator.org/articles/2007/09/18/news/student_government/accent.txt

quote:


"We make it clear that any profanity and vulgarity by anyone asking questions will result in a cutting off of the mike," Blank said.
...

"The police are there with the general understanding that they are there to keep order," he said. "They acted independently of Accent.


So it would appear that The MODERATOR *did* cut the mic, and that the MODERATOR did *not* tell the police to remove him. Again, some statements sworn under an oath against perjury would be useful. There's The Smoking Gun when we need them?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/27/2007 10:39:08 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 60
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