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Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 5:25:15 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		(This should be of no interest to the strictly d/s or b/d people. S&Mers might want to read further, or might not)

I'm not talking about some sort of emotional or psychological breaking down. I'm talking about bones, connective tissue, and that big connective tissue: skin. If you want to bring in eyeballs and eardrums I think the likelihood of permanence of any damage rules them out of this discussion. Teeth? You make the call, I mean a little drilling here or there. Breaking off chunks would be too edgy for me.

What is ruled in or out for you when it comes to breaking your partner, physically? I'm not proposing anything permanent, mind you, like a tattoo <shudder> (ugly, hateful things they are.) Just temporary stuff like, say, broken toes, sprained ankles, even broken legs if you want to go there. Every bruise involves the breaking of vasculature, I think, and a lot subs like to wear bruises.

Would you be willing to wear a cast or a crutch? Could you get off on it?

If you are into permanent stuff like tattoos or heavy scarification, could you graciously receive the gift of, say, a permanent limp?

I'm just asking.

As we know from frequent repetiton of the cliche, some people believe that a "real" dominant/master/top does not "break his toys", so we don't so much need to hear from those folks again here. And we can respect the position they hold whether we agree or disagree.

Does the idea of this sort of serious, enduring but mostly not permanant damaging appeal to you? Does it appeal only at the level of fantasy or would you or have you engaged intentionally in it?

Lots of skin breaking goes on around here what with piercings and so forth. Knife play can take it farther. Skin-breaking is clearly temporary, since skin mends itself. Scarring can be more enduring, often permanent, of course. The scarring could be seen as an incidental side-effect or as the whole point of the exercise. How do you see it?

Having discused skin-breaking we leave the territory on which a lot of kink literature is available. I don't see bone-and ligament-breaking kinks discussed much, for some reason.

Whichever kind of physical breaking you'd like to discuss, how far would you be willing to take it with the optimal situation and partner? With the partner you happen to have?

How far does your thinking go before it all goes from hot to squick, even as fantasy?

Does it not even get to step one?

Would you like to see if these these amps go to eleven?
('cause I mean if we're left with an amp I think it's safe to say you took it to eleven.)

Do you think it would be an amazing bonding experience to look deeply into your partner eyes as he or she progressively bent your finger back, the pain building steadily and steeply to a brilliant burst accompanied by that characteristic pencil-snapping-underwater sound, and the wave of nausea that usually follows?

Or not so much, really?



(edited to add that dominants should feel free to chime in from their side of the ... bench vise, or whatever)


< Message edited by Noah -- 10/28/2007 5:30:34 PM >
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 5:45:31 PM   
writergirl


Posts: 29
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Though your post has a pretty well developed sardonic tone to it, I'll go ahead and answer anyway.

Would I be willing to endure a bone break or other such from my Master? Yes. Would I get off on it? I doubt it. Would I want Him to do it? No, not really. I know, in my case, my Master wouldn't deliberately break a bone. If He does and I'm on crutches for two months, then how well can I serve Him, really? I don't think the return would be worth whatever gratification might come.

The types of things I would like are probably pretty common, ranging from bruises to scratches to cuts. I'd even be interested in some scarification. But that's just me.

wg

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 5:49:23 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		Holy shit, Noah. I got chills running into my hair from that one. Being a natural clutz and breaking stuff on my own more often than I care to admit, I don't think I could stand intentional slow breaking of anything. The closest I came to enjoying anything like that was labor, which I actually did enjoy, even the cutting part at the end (pun not really intended but ... eh ... kinda fits).

Cutting, done it. Needles too. Vitamin shots. (I'm needle phobic, so this was really pushing it for me, but there's something about "What are you willing to do for me" that trips my trigger.) I can't say I'd never do it because I've done a lot of stuff I never thought I'd try ... but ohhhhheeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww. This one makes me kinda nauseous and panicky.

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 5:53:50 PM   
Hergirl0824


Posts: 119
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		no this is a hard limit for me...some bruises..sure...a few cuts and scrapes...not a problem...but if Ma'am even suggested such a thing as deliberately breaking of my bones i would be gone as fast as my fat little legs could carry me

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When i let go of what i am, i become what i might be

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 6:26:59 PM   
subinsouth


Posts: 55
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline 		Uhhhmmm. .. . .. ..no. 

I would not understand intentionally breaking bones and popping noises. 

So really. .. .. . no.

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may it be for me as You will

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 6:33:52 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		I had to come back in and read Noah's OP again. Same reaction, only this time, by the time I got to the last few sentences, not only did I have chills in my hair, I had cold chill tears in my eyes. Whew. Noah. What a bizarre masterpiece.

(in reply to subinsouth)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 6:45:37 PM   
maclough


Posts: 25
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		Ok so this should start out with "This one is for the Sadists and Masochists out there"  and yep some D/s even do the S&M so yes it's for them also.  Hmmmn would I be willing to take it?  Can't answer it from out side the box.  Until I was there, then I could answer it.  I know alot of sadists who would be overly willing to break a few bones, know one who has flayed large sections of a masochist then rubbed sea salt in.  Suppose it's all about ones levels and no not about their level of submissiveness but trust and pain or for that matter inflicting pain also.  

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 7:14:15 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Hmm, I have been tatooed, pierced, branded, burned, scared deliberatly, had knife cuts from knife play that left some nasty scars ( some deliberate, some not ), had the skin on my cheek broken open numerous times, my jaw broke once ( although this one truly was an accident in the sense that I got a bit too rowdy and when he tried to restrain me, things got really bad ).
All of these happened with the same man, by the same man; some were deliberate, some were not; I ACCEPTED everything that happened though with a clear head, and stayed with him because there was no one who could reach me the way he could

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 7:21:23 PM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline 		I'm a pretty heavy masochist, but not that heavy. I too got chills reading the OP. All pain is not the same definitely and I cannot take all kinds of pain. Also the comment about it being temporary since broken bones heal in time struck me. I have physical problems that cause me pain daily and broken bones in those areas will likely have a permanent long term effect on them even though it heals up. I believe broken bones leave a weakness in the broken area often even when fully healed. For me, no I couldn't ever go that far. Deep bruising, welts, stripes, skin breaks from singletails and canes, colorful marks, those are normal for me to have and I enjoy them and getting them, broken bones are a limit for me though especially when done deliberately.

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Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to maclough)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 7:21:31 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Broken bones do carry a small health risk (varying depending on the break) and, in my opinion, are far too much trouble. One scene's worth of enjoyment vs. the cost of medical attention, (putting it in the cast and the x-rays) and the time spent rebuilding the muscle that weakened in the cast while the bone healed. We just wouldn't regard it as cost effective. Broken toes and fingers would hinder service and keep me out of the dojo. The fleeting joy of scene compared to the aftercare and dealing with the aftermath just wouldn't be worth it.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 10/28/2007 7:22:07 PM >

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 7:30:43 PM   
hermione83


Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		Wow, my friend just broke her arm, and she's been running around looking like she's dead, in severe pain all the time .. had to redo her cast over and over, her skin is even peeling on her fingers... she's drugged up all the time.. can't do her job hardly... and she's a professional and a perfectionist. She can't wash her hair. And I've known people who had to get major surgery after a bone wouldn't heal right. And then the nastiest scars ever are the arm and leg surgeries to fix them. I'm a masochist, but I'm going to have to go with a big no. I really can't imagine anyone being turned on by that kind of pain. Seriously. And if you think a tattoo is too permanent, maybe you should meet people who have suffered broken bones more before you decide it's something less than that. Geez.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 8:06:08 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		short answer...no

long answer...no, but not for the reasons others have listed...the pain is not the issue...the long drawn out pain is not that big a deal (my daily pain level is at a 5 to 7 on a 1 to 10 scale...theres not much higher it can go...i can deal with it)...and actually the fact that someone would want to cause me long drawn out pain is hot, i am a masochist...like i said, the pain is not the problem...neither is the scarring, i have lots of tattoos, i have been pierced 9 times and branded 3 times, and i have a cutting on the middle of my back.... the problem would be my inability to serve in so many capacities...and i would not be with someone that would be willing to break their valued toys just for the fun of it and disregard the fact that they are depriving themselves of the service that they enjoy...that just doesn't make any kind of sense to me...and i wouldn't be with someone that is that illogical and irrational...the closest cliche i can think of would be "cutting off your nose to spite your face"....

chelle


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(in reply to hermione83)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 8:31:45 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		Oh yeah. I am a masochist. Just coming back in to ... ~shudder~

(in reply to chellekitty)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 9:05:09 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: writergirl

Though your post has a pretty well developed sardonic tone to it, I'll go ahead and answer anyway.

Would I be willing to endure a bone break or other such from my Master? Yes. Would I get off on it? I doubt it. Would I want Him to do it? No, not really. I know, in my case, my Master wouldn't deliberately break a bone. If He does and I'm on crutches for two months, then how well can I serve Him, really? I don't think the return would be worth whatever gratification might come.

The types of things I would like are probably pretty common, ranging from bruises to scratches to cuts. I'd even be interested in some scarification. But that's just me.

wg



Hey. I had hoped for some well considered responses to my original post but I wasn't teribly confident they'd materialize. Thanks to each of you who responded. And as for writergirl: you said sardonic so you must really be a writer. Thanks for being the first to take up the cudgel.



(in reply to writergirl)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 9:06:39 PM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		Many  many moons ago I was a submissive/bottom.  My top, dom accidently broke my tailbone (actually chipped off the tip) during a rather aggressive paddling.  This was 16 years ago.  I still can feel the pain after sitting on the floor or on long car rides...I sometimes smile remembering how much fun we used to have but usually it just is a pain in the ass...literally. 

The physical pain is the easy part to get over...it was all that other stuff that went with this...that was the real bitch.  The consequences...you don't think about when fantasizing.  First, the visit to the ER, embarassing...trying to explain I had consented....then the police, domestic violence counselors, calls to my parents (I was an adult but the hospital called anyhow since I was a college student and on their insurance)...lawyers....judges and jury.  Explaining to each that he was not senselessly beating me...I consented and it was an accident.

If you are not really into humilation...degredation and being a public spectacle (I had to carry around a rubber donut to sit on for months) this may not be something you want to consider.

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(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 9:08:15 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Holy shit, Noah. I got chills running into my hair from that one. Being a natural clutz and breaking stuff on my own more often than I care to admit, I don't think I could stand intentional slow breaking of anything. The closest I came to enjoying anything like that was labor, which I actually did enjoy, even the cutting part at the end (pun not really intended but ... eh ... kinda fits).

Cutting, done it. Needles too. Vitamin shots. (I'm needle phobic, so this was really pushing it for me, but there's something about "What are you willing to do for me" that trips my trigger.) I can't say I'd never do it because I've done a lot of stuff I never thought I'd try ... but ohhhhheeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww. This one makes me kinda nauseous and panicky.


Thanks batshalom.

I don't recall having heard a woman admit to enjoying labor. That's interesting in a special way. Always nice to collect data on triggers. And I especially liked the part about making you nauseous and panicky.

Or were you just flirting?

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 9:09:50 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hergirl0824

... as fast as my fat little legs could carry me


Another flirt. What kind of place is this?

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 9:12:27 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subinsouth

Uhhhmmm. .. . .. ..no. 

I would not understand intentionally breaking bones and popping noises. 

So really. .. .. . no.


You don't give yourself enough credit. I mean I could be mistaken but I'll bet you would understand the popping noises.

I'm glad you raised the issue of undertsanding, though, in the sense at hand. To me it has everything to do with the topic.

Thanks subinsouth.

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 9:14:29 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

I had to come back in and read Noah's OP again. Same reaction, only this time, by the time I got to the last few sentences, not only did I have chills in my hair, I had cold chill tears in my eyes. Whew. Noah. What a bizarre masterpiece.


I just went back and read it again myself. Are you always so perspicacious?

(in reply to batshalom)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/28/2007 9:18:24 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I would take no issue if Master chose to break my bones, other than realizing he had changed his mind about not wanting to break my bones (we've talked about it before).  I am not a masochist by any means.  I hate pain for the most part.  He is not a physical sadist but enjoys tormenting my mind.  But I've been in positions before where what he was doing could have hurt me in more than a casual way, and I did nothing to stop his process other than in my own way, inform him of what was happening so he could decide to stop or continue if he wished. One time, while his knife was pointing into my throat, I was so high from it I whispered, "Do it..." several times.   I am not concerned about being hurt or damaged by him, and if I am, I will deal with it.  I used to feel opposed to being so hurt, but I no longer am.

As for bonding...we've done some pretty horrific things (horrific being subjective and all) which were extremely bonding.  I'd say depending on the situation, yes, it could be highly bonding.  I don't foresee him doing this though, at least not intentionally.  If something happens by accident, I'll deal with it.

(in reply to Noah)
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