Noah
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Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: petdave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Noah
And once again this curious notion that a Sadist would enjoy service less the more difficult and painful it may be to perform. That doesn't make any kind of sense to me. So I guess we cash out even.
Hm, interesting (and at times very amusing) thread...
There's an image that sticks in my mind, and kinda pulled me into this thread...
Body modification. Corsetry. There are accounts, unverified to my knowledge, that during the time period when a small waist was considered essential to a lady of high status, some women had their lower ribs deliberately broken in order to improve the reduction they could attain. i find this absolutely fascinating from the perspective of being "changed" to please one's partner... Beginning with a lengthy regimen of waist training, which eventually influences many routine aspects of life that people take for granted- diet, activity level, shopping for clothes... And finally reaching a point where nothing else can be done via corsets alone, so the subject is carefully measured, prepared, laid naked upon a table... And a single hammerblow feels like an explosion inside, snapping the rib... The agonizing roll onto the damaged side, gasping, needing to breathe but trying not to, forcing the body to submit to more even when every survival instinct screams no... A second *CRACK*... Then the cinching, pulling the body into a shape even more unnatural... Laying awake for the first night, lancing pain with every breath... Weeks held all but immobile by the stays, every movement, every aborted attempt to bend a sharp reminder of what submission has entailed, how essentially the body has been altered for another... Rebuilding the damage, re-acquiring the speed and grace of service that had been lost in sudden stabs of pain, and finally getting a chance to appreciate the new body...
Um, and there's also the whole cast-fetish-since-i-was-way-unmentionable thing... So... i wouldn't rule it out.
Now, in practice? Damn hard to say. Always possible that i'd chicken out. Likelihood that my wife would ever be interested in trying it? Zero. (and it has almost no appeal from a do-me perspective... i know that it would take a lot out of me, and without the satisfaction of having done it for her, i know i'd regret the hell out of it)
Permanent loss of mobility or chronic pain... no, i'd consider that unacceptable (with the exception of limitations posed by waist training, for no logical reason). The way i see it, as long as there's an end to the suffering, so to speak, or even more a goal that will be reached at the end, then things are okay. Even when they're inconvenient, even if they span time periods that you really wish they wouldn't, there's closure. Without that, i think eventually there would be the mental switch from suffering for someone, to just being damaged in a way that makes each and every day suck more than it needs to. i'm damaged enough.
Thanks Dave. A wonderful post.
It creates in my mind a sort of Venn Diagram mapping what I see as being behind the sort of extreme corset training you describe, on the one hand, and the topic of the original post on the other. Significant overlap with significant exclusion.
You spoke of something (the pain, I guess) having an end. I believe that you meant "end" in the temporal sense: a time when the pain stops. In my first pass through that sentence of yours, though, I read it the other way: end as in "object", or "point" (as in means vs. ends.) But then you spoke of a goal. "Goal" is another near-synonym for the non-temporal sense of "end". This showed that you were considering both meanings.
So you would like both the temporal end to the pain and the knowledge that the suffering was a means to an end (an aesthetic goal, in this case.)
This stands opposed to the topic of the thread which was for the most part a breaking with no extrinsic goal (though some skin breaking does aim carefully at scarring, and we did consider that in some cases the victim might be "scarred" by a limp or its equivalent.) The idea (the object or intention) in the original post is not some cosmetic modification. The ideal would be for everything to to look the same afterward as before (except on x-rays, maybe.)
And, well, maybe some lovely marks on each soul.
Of course intrinsic to the breaking would be the suffering (physical and otherwise) and the trust and devotion required in order to submit to such treatment--at least in the ways I'm using the words and so I'm trying to make my use of the words unambiguous.
The goal-orientedness of such a scenario would be what would redeem or maybe justufy it for you, if I'm following you. This contrasts in a nice, clear, potentially very illuminating way with someone else for whom the transaction (the breaking) was meaningful and worthwhile just because it simply was what it was in that moment, neither asking for nor claiming any aesthetic or utilitarian justification.
I find both points of view coherent (logical and rational, to use chelle's term.) I'm sure that in relation to other considerations in life I take that very "goal validates process" sort of view some times. I said goal validates process rather than "end justifies means" because I see more in play here the the sort of bare-bones moral calculus that "end justifies means" represents to me.
By the way, I'm powerfully struck by the Genesis-meets-Feminism symbolism that erupts in your little story. God made Her from your rib, as the story goes, and now she all but reaches in and takes it back. The analogy can readily--if a little awkwardly--extend to invoke the dogma of Original Sin represented by the chronic pain resulting in the one eventuality you describe. I'd outline it but I've gone on too long already.
So yeah, thanks again.
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 
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Yeah, yeah, my k ran away lol, should have been Merck's. I did read some in it though in the fractures section and didn't see anything saying either weakened or stronger in the break area after full healing. It touched on the fact that healing time varies from person to person and mentioned that for up to a year or so it's weakened/not as strong as it ordinarily is (paraphrasing here) due to not being fully healed yet. Internal healing takes much longer than the external on fractures it also says.
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